Who can see Private Hosted Forums?

Quazzie

Private Hosted Forums which are invite only I always assumed were private, but who can actually see them?

Do Admins have access to these forums, and if so how often do they exercise the right to access the forum? Do Cat Mods, Mods, also have access?

Liam McPoyle

AFAIK it's only admins & Boards employees that can view private forums, hosted or otherwise.

Gordon

That's correct afaiu. Admins very rarely go into private fora, there is no desire on our part to snoop. But we need to be able to access them just in case.

Quazzie

Gordon wrote: »

That's correct afaiu. Admins very rarely go into private fora, there is no desire on our part to snoop. But we need to be able to access them just in case.

Should Admins announce their arrivals in a similar way to how a landlord has to give notice if he wants to go into his house. Sure the landlord owns the house, but no tenant wants to be watching TV in their sitting room and then suddenly see the landlord walking through the kitchen.

seamus

Quazzie wrote: »

Should Admins announce their arrivals in a similar way to how a landlord has to give notice if he wants to go into his house. Sure the landlord owns the house, but no tenant wants to be watching TV in their sitting room and then suddenly see the landlord walking through the kitchen.

From my time as an Admin I can tell you that private forums don't operate in that way.

Admins can and have stepped in where private forums are breaking sitewide rules, distributing illegal materials, using the forum to co-ordinate bullying behaviour on other forums and a pile of other things.

I don't think those using the forums have any reasonable right to ask for absolute privacy, considering they are users of a service. It's a condition of having a private forum that admins will have access and use it when appropriate.

But rest assured, the admins aren't reading your "When did you first start wearing your Granny's knickers" thread.

Quazzie

seamus wrote: »

But rest assured, the admins aren't reading your "When did you first start wearing your Granny's knickers" thread.

But it's the risk of getting caught that makes it so exciting

Just FYI - I can access your hosted forum quazzie. Not sure if it's meant to be private.

Steve

Deleted User wrote: »

Just FYI - I can access your hosted forum quazzie. Not sure if it's meant to be private.

Anyone can see it, ATWR was never private

Dades

Fwiw, I've never even clicked into more than a handful of the hosted forums - and only then when there's reports of behaviour like seamus mentions going on.

Doctor DooM

I've a couple of private forums to my name but the only time I've seen an admin dive in was when I requested it at my wits end over another user who was effectively using one to talk falsehoods (sorry I was watching Knightmare on Challenge the other morning) about me.

Dav

TRUTH ACCEPTED!

Honestly, we've got enough to be looking at without worrying about what people in private forums are talking about unless we're specifically asked to go and look at something.

knucklehead6

Just in relation to hosted private forums, where there is a dispute on Mod actions/banning what is the procedure? Does it go straight from pming mod to Admin level? Or is there an intervening Cmod-like level? or is it a case of Mod action being final?

I'd be happier having at least one layer of oversight myself. We haven't had a requirement for too much mod action over on ODG and any mod action has been taken on board by our users without the need for appealing them.

Added to that the fact that we'd chat amongst ourselves before most mod actions (there are always one or two where it's a case of ACT NOW) but i think it is important for the users (And mods) to know what the stages are.

Lovely Bloke

Surely the private hosted forums are "by invite only" - if someone steps out of line, just boot them. If a P-HMod is acting the bollix, then it's up to the other mod/s to reign him in before the Admin feel the need to intervene.

Although, they aren't all the same, of course. I know of one where only 4 people have reading/posting priveleges (not including Admin/staff), so it hardly needs Admin attention at all.

knucklehead6

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Surely the private hosted forums are "by invite only" - if someone steps out of line, just boot them. If a P-HMod is acting the bollix, then it's up to the other mod/s to reign him in before the Admin feel the need to intervene.

Although, they aren't all the same, of course. I know of one where only 4 people have reading/posting priveleges (not including Admin/staff), so it hardly needs Admin attention at all.

ODG is mostly by request. There are a few users we have invited, through seeing their posts elsewhere on boards but most users there have requested access.

As I said, in ODG we (the mods) chat amongst ourselves and reach a consensus before most mod actions are carried out. I would assume that most mod actions in other forums are the same, but sometimes the user doesn't agree, thus resulting in a DRP, where the user can question whether or not the mod team was correct to infract/ban them.

So if me and the other ODG mods are agreed that someone deserves a month long ban for something, but the user doesn't, then they should they not have the right to appeal? I would think they should.

Lovely Bloke

I could be wrong here, but I don't think Hosted forums come under the remit of DRP, and issues within them shouldn't be posted there.

If they are, then I'd argue that if they are causing issues for the Admin/Staff of Boards.ie, then the platform should simply stop hosting the forum, tell them to go somewhere else.

Hosted forums are essentially for groups of people who Boards kind "rents" space to (free rent, but bear with me), where they as the landlord don't poke around the property, but can kick the tennants out if they cause trouble.

knucklehead6

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I could be wrong here, but I don't think Hosted forums come under the remit of DRP, and issues within them shouldn't be posted there.

If they are, then I'd argue that if they are causing issues for the Admin/Staff of Boards.ie, then the platform should simply stop hosting the forum, tell them to go somewhere else.

Hosted forums are essentially for groups of people who Boards kind "rents" space to (free rent, but bear with me), where they as the landlord don't poke around the property, but can kick the tennants out if they cause trouble.

You are misunderstanding me, i'm not saying that the hosted forums SHOULD come under the DRP but it would be nice (as a mod of a hosted forum) to know what levels of appeal are available for the users.

Considering most users will not know the difference between a hosted forum (like the Online Dating Group), and a forum (like The Gentlemen's Club where the ODG was born in 3*10000 post threads) then would it not make sense to have some form of established procedure?

Lovely Bloke

Yeah, was misunderstanding.

It seems to me ODG (thanks for spelling it out, had no idea what it stood for) was stuck as a Hosted Forum for reasons other than what I understood Hosted forums, historically, are/were for.

I can also see the need for a proper "Dispute Resolution" channel for a forum like it (and others, if they exist).

The Hill Billy

I would have thought that the Hmods ruling would be sufficient. Using the Landlord analogy- start knocking down walls & the admins step in no matter what, nicking someone's cornflakes & not buying your share of toilet roll - well that's up to the Hmod subletting to the posters.

Asking admins to take on additional DRPs for forums that are, strictly speaking, not their concern is another overhead on an already busy team. Another DRP forum to monitor (I'm sure you wouldn't want to air your laundry in public), plus the hassle of mediation as there are no CMods. Also, given the very diverse nature of the hosted forums I'd imagine that establishing the DRP ground rules would be very difficult.

Dades

The only time we should be hearing about issues in hosted forums is when a user or group of users is engaging in behavior that is unacceptable under the Boards umbrella, and the mods feel it should be brought to the attention of the admins or HQ.

It's up to the mods of the forums to run their own ship, which also includes saying who they allow in or kick out.

Of course we can be contacted with concerns but day to day concerns (including DR type stuff) should be all done in-house as if the forum was on its own.

seamus

Back in my day, when people from private forums started whinging to admins about being banned from private forums, the analogous response from the admins was, "Keep it down back there or nobody gets any ice cream".

In short, if you get banned from a private forum, it's tough ****. If the mod wants to ban everyone and have his own little playforum, he can knock himself out, admins don't really care.

Lovely Bloke

seamus wrote: »

Back in my day, when people from private forums started whinging to admins about being banned from private forums, the analogous response from the admins was, "Keep it down back there or nobody gets any ice cream".

In short, if you get banned from a private forum, it's tough ****. If the mod wants to ban everyone and have his own little playforum, he can knock himself out, admins don't really care.

Yes, that is "how it used to be" back in the halcyon days.

But, a forum like an Online Dating Group probably needs a stricter eye kept on it, well above the usual HForum level, I'd imagine.

It's all well and good for the Model-T Ford Enthusiasts Forum to be left alone, and be referred to as "not really a part of Boards.ie", I mean if one of them dudes crashes his car it's unlikely to make national headlines.

However, an online dating group, using Boards.ie as a platform IS linked to Boards.ie, no matter how many times it gets said in Feedback that HForums aren't a part of the real Boards.ie.

IF something happened to some young innocent girl, and it subsequently came out that she'd met the man who'd done it on the "Boards.ie Dating Site", I can't imagine Dav explaining to the Irish Daily Mail that, well, technically, it's nothing to do with us.

"Boards chief washes hands of dead girl"

Extreme? Maybe, but an online dating group, in particular, is a different animal to most other HForums.

knucklehead6

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Yes, that is "how it used to be" back in the halcyon days.

But, a forum like an Online Dating Group probably needs a stricter eye kept on it, well above the usual HForum level, I'd imagine.

It's all well and good for the Model-T Ford Enthusiasts Forum to be left alone, and be referred to as "not really a part of Boards.ie", I mean of one of them dudes crashes his car it's unlikely to make national headlines.

However, and online dating group, using Boards.ie as a platform IS linked to Boards.ie, no matter how many times it gets said in Feedback that HForums aren't a part of the real Boards.ie.

IF something happened to some young innocent girl, and it subsequently came out that she'd met the man who'd done it on the "Boards.ie Dating Site", I can't imagine Dav explaining to the Irish Daily Mail that, well, technically, it's nothing to do with us.

"Boards chief washes hands of dead girl"

Just to clarify the ODG isn't a dating site section of boards... just an area where aspects of online dating can be discussed.

And I know you knew that Baldy, I just want to point it out to anyone else who might be reading this thread.

(expects an influx of PM's requesting access)

Lovely Bloke

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Just to clarify the ODG isn't a dating site section of boards... just an area where aspects of online dating can be discussed.

Aaaahhh right.


So kind of "I use XXXDating.Com, anyone else use that - is it just weirdos"? kind of discussions, yes?

knucklehead6 wrote: »

And I know you knew that Baldy, I just want to point it out to anyone else who might be reading this thread.

I actually didn't. I was chatting about the Dating Group with my wife the other night, and I commented "I never thought Boards.ie would get involved with a Dating thing, weird". (even at the time it didn't click ODG=Dating Group)

Incidentally, I actually met my wife at a Boards.ie event, as it happens. So I don't have any inherent opposition to Boards.ie being used as a site where people meet partners, far from it.

knucklehead6

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

So kind of "I use XXXDating.Com, anyone else use that - is it just weirdos"? kind of discussions, yes?

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Apart from saying that people who use online dating aren't weirdos!!

Baldy Conscience

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

"Boards chief washes hands of dead girl"

Well. that escalated quickly :eek:

Actually Baldy, without giving away very many details, what you have described simply wouldn't happen. I've seen first hand of the steps the Dav et al will take to protect both the site and its members within private forums so rest assured "it's a private part of the site so it's nothing to do with us" will never be anything uttered by any of the staff.

Private forums must comply with the main sitewide rules e.g. no porn, illegal activities etc but the house rules are to be agreed and enforced by the hmods, that's why it's best to have a team of hmods rather than just the one. Three I think is the optimum number. Admin should only have to get involved in exceptional circumstances. Private forums should run themselves and there should be minimal modding required, each member of the forum should have equal responsibility in keeping the forum tidy and hmods should rarely have to intervene.

Lovely Bloke

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually Baldy, without giving away very many details, what you have described simply wouldn't happen. I've seen first hand of the steps the Dav et al will take to protect both the site and its members within private forums so rest assured "it's a private part of the site so it's nothing to do with us" will never be anything uttered by any of the staff. .

So have I

cyberwolf77

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I've a couple of private forums to my name but the only time I've seen an admin dive in was when I requested it at my wits end over another user who was effectively using one to talk falsehoods (sorry I was watching Knightmare on Challenge the other morning) about me.

That was a thoroughly unpleasant time

5starpool

Dav wrote: »

TRUTH ACCEPTED!

Honestly, we've got enough to be looking at without worrying about what people in private forums are talking about unless we're specifically asked to go and look at something.

This is incorrect.

There is a private forum that I post in, and an admin posted a warning today for a post that was made a while ago. Obviously I can't be sure but there is almost no chance this posted was reported or any admin was asked to specifically look into it, yet Beruthiel (named as she is so cavalier with privacy) waded in feet first as usual.

The post in question was saying that a non member (a mod of a forum, but that is irrelevant in this case) does something like a w*nker. It was essentially a standalone post with a couple of other things discussing them said. That's it, there was no overspill, no threats to do anything anywhere else on the site, nothing, yet Beruthiel felt the need to come in and threaten to close down the private hosted forum.

I know as well as any that if needs be these forums are liable to enforcement of sitewide rules by admins, and we all accept that as a condition of existence. For full disclosure there was a thing 5 ago in there (before I was a member) where Devore (rightly in that case) gave them a severe dressing down for breach of rules. After that things were tightened up, and in the 5 years since I've been in there no admin has had reason to look in there as far as I know.

However, I am pretty sure that in lots of private forums on here there are throwaway remarks made calling people outside of the forum names. If certain admins are monitoring certain forums and reading back through threads looking for things outside of boards rules we should be made aware of this.

This is how people/communities get driven from this site with 'input' from this by people like Beruthiel.

No one on here has a right to privacy, I understand that, but in this case it seems to have been a flagrant disregard for even the basic pretence of privacy.

Quazzie

I agree with 5starpool. The very reason I started this thread was because an Admin showed up in the "Currently active users" on the bottom. I just thought it was a bit odd that an Admin would be in looking at private forums with no apparent reason.

It really made me wonder are we wrong in assuming that what we post in there is private and how big is the audience.

Mitch Connor

5starpool wrote: »

This is incorrect.

There is a private forum that I post in, and an admin posted a warning today for a post that was made a while ago. Obviously I can't be sure but there is almost no chance this posted was reported or any admin was asked to specifically look into it, yet Beruthiel (named as she is so cavalier with privacy) waded in feet first as usual.

The post in question was saying that a non member (a mod of a forum, but that is irrelevant in this case) does something like a w*nker. It was essentially a standalone post with a couple of other things discussing them said. That's it, there was no overspill, no threats to do anything anywhere else on the site, nothing, yet Beruthiel felt the need to come in and threaten to close down the private hosted forum.

I know as well as any that if needs be these forums are liable to enforcement of sitewide rules by admins, and we all accept that as a condition of existence. For full disclosure there was a thing 5 ago in there (before I was a member) where Devore (rightly in that case) gave them a severe dressing down for breach of rules. After that things were tightened up, and in the 5 years since I've been in there no admin has had reason to look in there as far as I know.

However, I am pretty sure that in lots of private forums on here there are throwaway remarks made calling people outside of the forum names. If certain admins are monitoring certain forums and reading back through threads looking for things outside of boards rules we should be made aware of this.

This is how people/communities get driven from this site with 'input' from this by people like Beruthiel.

No one on here has a right to privacy, I understand that, but in this case it seems to have been a flagrant disregard for even the basic pretence of privacy.

Should also be noted that at the time it was specifically said that we could call anyone on the site anything, as long as the users didn't use the private forum as a platform for organised bullying or the like - this statement has been proven to be a lie (even so far as you can't say a trait a user displays is w@nkerish)

Lovely Bloke

Quazzie wrote: »

It really made me wonder are we wrong in assuming that what we post in there is private and how big is the audience.

You are absolutely, 100% wrong in assuming that, and the audience is all the Admins, Staff, plus the "special status" normal users who have Admin acces that is not indicated, their name is not in bold/italics. I am aware of at least one user in the past who was like this, I am not aware of any at the moment.

although, in fairness, no Admin has ever said they they do not have access, but they have said that they don't snoope without "good reason" - this morning that has proven not to be the case.

A three week old post was dug up, and a warning issued, pretty much a threat that the forum would be closed.

A non-member of the private forum's posting style was described thusly

X does Y like a wanker

on the 21st January 2014.

This morning - how many weeks later? 3? - an Admin picked that post out, and issued the warning.

Even though, at a previous time, DeVore stated in the forum that it WAS acceptable to

have your opinions of anyone you like, you can sit in here and b*tch and whinge about who you think is a knob end

Nobody from the Admin side stated to us that that had changed, it's the model we've been operating under, and if anything even looked like it was going to spill out into "public" it was nipped in the but straightaway by a VERY viginant mod team there.