Who can see Private Hosted Forums?

Quazzie

K-9 wrote: »

Don't think so, that was the problem, the hmod wasn't implementing the charter.

Well then a new HMod is needed or the forum needs to be discontinued. I would like to see some trust instilled in the HMods that they do the job asked of them, and would rather see that method used as opposed to the current one where Admins read posts made by someone that had an intended audience that didn't include the admins.

knucklehead6

Quazzie wrote: »

Well then a new HMod is needed or the forum needs to be discontinued. I would like to see some trust instilled in the HMods that they do the job asked of them, and would rather see that method used as opposed to the current one where Admins read posts made by someone that had an intended audience that didn't include the admins.

Proof, if it were needed that the point is being completely missed here. The only form of communication that you have a reasonable expectation of being private on this site is a PM. And even then you have to trust that the recipient won't post it up for their pals to see.

The admins have full visibility of the site private/public/hosted whatever and they need it to do their jobs as admins. It really is that simple.

Were there errors in this case? Yes, undoubtedly. On both sides. But no one should have a expectation that ANYTHING you out on the Internet is private. Because it quite simply isn't.

Quazzie

knucklehead6 wrote: »

The admins have full visibility of the site private/public/hosted whatever and they need it to do their jobs as admins. It really is that simple.

I don't think you get me. I understand that they have full unwavering access. I understand why they need this access. I also understand why there are times when they need to use this access. I agree with all of it. My point is about when they need to use it. I would prefer it if they installed trusted HMods over private forums and only came onto the forums upon request of the HMod. This is the system which is generally used in most other forums on Boards so it'd be nice if the same grace was granted to the parts of boards which privacy is requested the most.

Beasty

Quite interestingly I spend a lot of time interacting with Sports Mods, usually in the dedicated Sports Mods forums. I can see the different approaches adopted in different forums and hopefully help share best practice, and give a steer when appropriate. Similarly there are a few forums with Admins still listed as mods, and those Admins help standardise approach also. You don't have the CMod layed in hosted forums, and mods can feel a bit isolated if they are not getting that type of interaction. It risks very different approaches and standards being applied in different forums (which appears to have happened here).

K-9

Quazzie wrote: »

Well then a new HMod is needed or the forum needs to be discontinued.

Think it was an ex HMod'

I would like to see some trust instilled in the HMods that they do the job asked of them, and would rather see that method used as opposed to the current one where Admins read posts made by someone that had an intended audience that didn't include the admins.

All Mods and CMods have oversight from Admins. Why should HMods and private/hosted forums be treated differently?

The Admins explained how they do routine checking of private forums, in the course of that they might read stuff that wasn't really for their eyes. But it's a private forum hosted on Boards, some degree of oversight has to be expected. It's unreasonable for me to expect otherwise.

PhlegmyMoses

Beasty wrote: »

Quite interestingly I spend a lot of time interacting with Sports Mods, usually in the dedicated Sports Mods forums. I can see the different approaches adopted in different forums and hopefully help share best practice, and give a steer when appropriate. Similarly there are a few forums with Admins still listed as mods, and those Admins help standardise approach also. You don't have the CMod layed in hosted forums, and mods can feel a bit isolated if they are not getting that type of interaction. It risks very different approaches and standards being applied in different forums (which appears to have happened here).

This would all be fine if the offending post was somehow indicative of the overall tone of the PFJ, which it wasn't. The fact that we had to go back 3 weeks on a forum that had decent traffic to find something offensive suggests that we actually had an excellent record.

The disconnect between DeV's original ground rules and what was seen in that post could have been resolved by a simple rule-change. And we would have all abided. Almost everyone that posted in there was a mod at some point on boards, they have a good history here. There is no real need for an added layer, just a clarification of a rule. Instead, we had a sledgehammer taken to a peanut.

It's done now anyway.

Quazzie

K-9 wrote: »

All Mods and CMods have oversight from Admins. Why should HMods and private/hosted forums be treated differently?

The Admins explained how they do routine checking of private forums, in the course of that they might read stuff that wasn't really for their eyes. But it's a private forum hosted on Boards, some degree of oversight has to be expected. It's unreasonable for me to expect otherwise.

Am I wrong in thinking that Admins don't actively go searching in public forums looking for evidence that the mods are doing their jobs, as is suggested they do in private hosted forums? If I am then it's news to me, and I am in no way suggesting that any hosted forums get special treatment, only that they get similar treatment. The difference I point out is that their is an obvious desire of privacy by members of private forums that isn't there with ordinary forums, and this reflects their posting styles.

LoLth

Quazzie wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking that Admins don't actively go searching in public forums looking for evidence that the mods are doing their jobs, as is suggested they do in private hosted forums? If I am then it's news to me, and I am in no way suggesting that any hosted forums get special treatment, only that they get similar treatment. The difference I point out is that their is an obvious desire of privacy by members of private forums that isn't there with ordinary forums, and this reflects their posting styles.

there's a major difference there. Public forums are...well ,public. Users report posts and generally catch what the mods might miss. If it happens too often that a mod doesnt actions something that really should be actioned, a Cmod or an admin will notice or users will bring it to the Cmod/admin's attention.

Now go to a private forum. Any private forum. Its generally users that know one another or at least have a reason to be in the same private forum. Its already been established that the "dont report" policy is accepted as standard. If the Hmod doesnt do his or her job and stop potentially site-damaging material or activities then how are the Admins supposed to know to tackle it? If the users of the forum as a whole think the behaviour is fine and no-one feels any need to act to stop it, how would anyone know?

If I get complaints about a mod lack of modding in a public forum, I go and look for myself. I dont just take the users' word for it and reprimand the mod there and then. Private Hosted forums dont have layer of reporting and are less visible to start with so random spot checks are a more efficient method of checking.

(sorry for my silence over the last day or so, I've been up to my ears with report writing and deadlines. I'll read back over what I've missed since thursday afternoon and answer anything that still requires attention tomorrow if I get a chance).

K-9

Quazzie wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking that Admins don't actively go searching in public forums looking for evidence that the mods are doing their jobs, as is suggested they do in private hosted forums? If I am then it's news to me, and I am in no way suggesting that any hosted forums get special treatment, only that they get similar treatment. The difference I point out is that their is an obvious desire of privacy by members of private forums that isn't there with ordinary forums, and this reflects their posting styles.

Sometimes they'll act if there's nobody about or will step in if mods aren't sure what to do. As LoLth says if something is regularly getting missed they'll step in, naturally enough.

Now go to a private forum. Any private forum. Its generally users that know one another or at least have a reason to be in the same private forum. Its already been established that the "dont report" policy is accepted as standard. If the Hmod doesnt do his or her job and stop potentially site-damaging material or activities then how are the Admins supposed to know to tackle it? If the users of the forum as a whole think the behaviour is fine and no-one feels any need to act to stop it, how would anyone know?

That's the problem for me. In that particular private forum there seems to have been a culture of not reporting posts nor bringing stuff to the attention of admins, even if against the rules, publishing pm's for example. That it only came up now would show that there isn't that much checking of private forums, and therefor the culture of non reporting worked and something as basic as posting private pm's wasn't reported.

Quazzie

For the record, I am involved in three hosted forums. Two as a member, one as a mod, Two private one public. In all three we were actively urged to not use the report post function due to the inability of the HMod to access the reported posts forum. This isn't something sought by the users, but instead was a directive given from above. I always assumed this was the case for all hosted forums. Maybe removing that directive and making sure that all users are aware of it, would allow the forums to remain truly private.

Gordon

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Just so we're crystal clear however, Beruthial's accusation of underhanded motives on our behalf were knowingly focused on the creation of IPB. Again, Don 't ask me how I know this for certain, etc.

I'm not sure what the stated motives of whatever, or not, regarding another historic issue are, but I imagine it's not actually pertinent to this exact situation, so it's probably irrelevant for the moment, I'd imagine.

LoLth

Quazzie wrote: »

For the record, I am involved in three hosted forums. Two as a member, one as a mod, Two private one public. In all three we were actively urged to not use the report post function due to the inability of the HMod to access the reported posts forum. This isn't something sought by the users, but instead was a directive given from above. I always assumed this was the case for all hosted forums. Maybe removing that directive and making sure that all users are aware of it, would allow the forums to remain truly private.

I agree. Its something that will need to be discussed with the hmods and something that the private forum users will need to give an opinion on. I get why reporting was discouraged, I just think that no reporting means more requirement for admin drop ins which means more work for me which lets face it, I don't want

Lovely Bloke

LoLth wrote: »

I agree. Its something that will need to be discussed with the hmods and something that the private forum users will need to give an opinion on. I get why reporting was discouraged, I just think that no reporting means more requirement for admin drop ins which means more work for me which lets face it, I don't want

but you also must accept that the "no reporting" is not down to the users or HMods, and it's not some big anti-Admin conspiracy designed to keep things a sekrit from you - plural -. It's not a private forum "culture", as someone above alluded to.

It's actually what people were told to do by the Community Manager.

Also, the reported posts forum cannot be seen by HMods, so I'd suggest that before rescinding the "no reporting" rule then that should be addressed, one way or another. I'm not for a minute suggesting that HMods get access to the real mods forum either here, we couldn't be having that.

LoLth

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

but you also must accept that the "no reporting" is not down to the users or HMods, and it's not some big anti-Admin conspiracy designed to keep things a sekrit from you - plural -. It's not a private forum "culture", as someone above alluded to.

already did.

having said that, I would like to believe that, even if there is a dont hit the "report" button on a post, that users would understand that they can still contact a mod or admin if there is an issue in a private forum that they feel needs attention - personal medical issue being discussed without permission, speculation about a users real life identity / where they live / sharing of PMs not meant for public consumption etc etc the usual site rule / terms of use infringing stuff that everyone should have read because everyone clicked "i agree". If anyone didnt read them, go! do it now!. Ignorance is not a defense. Always always always read the T&Cs before you click ok. even if it is a microsoft disclaimer - you dont have to read the whole thing, just enough to satisfy yourself that there are no suprises like "by installing this software you agree to donate your left kidney to a software developer of our choosing should you prove to be a match"

if users take "dont hit the report button" as "dont ever tell" then admins have to check more frequently than would be optimal and they have to check deeper than I would like (you may not believe this but I dont want to read a strangers personal details or tales of woe. ) We learned that lesson the hard way with Thunderdome.

knucklehead6

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I'm not for a minute suggesting that HMods get access to the real mods forum either here, we couldn't be having that.

Forgive my ignorance, but why not?

Quazzie

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance, but why not?

Well mods are trusted members of the community and vetted by the admins/owners, whereas we (HMods) are just people who asked for a forum.

The perfect solution would be a reported post forum, just for the hosted section where we do have access, but I can't see that being any kind of a priority for the people who make things like that happen.

knucklehead6

Quazzie wrote: »

Well mods are trusted members of the community and vetted by the admins/owners, whereas we (HMods) are just people who asked for a forum.

The perfect solution would be a reported post forum, just for the hosted section where we do have access, but I can't see that being any kind of a priority for the people who make things like that happen.

Fair enough, but I'd hazard a guess that most of the hmods are long term posters who would pass muster through any vetting.

MugMugs

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Fair enough, but I'd hazard a guess that most of the hmods are long term posters who would pass muster through any vetting.

Then they'd be mods

cyberwolf77

MugMugs wrote: »

Then they'd be mods

Or, they're both
<

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Wibbs

Genuine question, just in case I've got the wrong end of the stick here?

ken wrote: »

There is another hosted forum where they do nothing but take the p!ss out of others on boards. How come that's allowed?. It might be light hearted but it still goes on.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

that's the crux, there is at least one other private forum where ripping the piss out of Boards.ie posters is pretty much the raison d'etre for the forum / A whole private forum dedicated to slagging off Boardsies, even non-members, every day, damn near every post in that forum really, and it's kosher.

Coleman Slawski wrote: »

So a forum exists where members would appear to have carte blanche to say what they want about ANY member of Boards, whether that person is part of the forum or not?

Wow, just wow.

With the general discussion about PFJ maybe this got lost in the crossfire, but is this true? Is there a private forum on Boards whose de facto reason for existence is to discuss/take the piss/slag off Boardsies?

If so, like CS above wow, just wow sums it up pretty well. Never mind that it makes it you couldn't make this bulldust up near farcical that a couple of one off episodes in another private forum garners threats of closure(and leads to some going off the site entirely) and yet apparently an entire forum can do this without any intervention at all?

Now of course this has a major caveat. Naturally I don't have the facts as I'm not a member, hence I'm asking the question. If it's untrue then apologies all around, but if true then I'd add to CS's wow with a WT ever living F?



Actually I am a member of one private forum where commenting on other Boardsies by name if you so choose(but most don't) is allowed in one stickied thread, but it wouldn't be the main thrust of the forum.

Pighead

Wibbs wrote: »

Genuine question, just in case I've got the wrong end of the stick here?






With the general discussion about PFJ maybe this got lost in the crossfire, but is this true? Is there a private forum on Boards whose de facto reason for existence is to discuss/take the piss/slag off Boardsies?

If so, like CS above wow, just wow sums it up pretty well. Never mind that it makes it you couldn't make this bulldust up near farcical that a couple of one off episodes in another private forum garners threats of closure(and leads to some going off the site entirely) and yet apparently an entire forum can do this without any intervention at all?

Now of course this has a major caveat. Naturally I don't have the facts as I'm not a member, hence I'm asking the question. If it's untrue then apologies all around, but if true then I'd add to CS's wow with a WT ever living F?



Actually I am a member of one private forum where commenting on other Boardsies by name if you so choose(but most don't) is allowed in one stickied thread, but it wouldn't be the main thrust of the forum.

Pighead's guessing that the forum in question is the Spell Czech forum. Not entirely sure what goes on in there but assume that they talk about posters spelling errors/bad punctuation etc?

knucklehead6

Pighead wrote: »

Pighead's guessing that the forum in question is the Spell Czech forum. Not entirely sure what goes on in there but assume that they talk about posters spelling errors/bad punctuation etc?

Its only one thread in Spell Czech, not the entire forum.

I'd like an answer to wibbs' far more pertinent question, is there a forum where commenting about other boardsies is all that goes on?

Xavi6

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually I am a member of one private forum where commenting on other Boardsies by name if you so choose(but most don't) is allowed in one stickied thread, but it wouldn't be the main thrust of the forum.

So pretty much the same as PFJ then.

Any out of the blue threats of closure in there?

Felexicon

Well that took a while to read.

To start I think I should mention that although I have never been a member of the PFJ I do know two members personally.

From reading the thread it seems the lads from the PFJ simply want clarification as to what is acceptable in a private forum and, if it is deemed necessary, an apology from the Admin who, in my opinion has gone in with all guns blazing and threatened to close down a well established forum for something which has previously been given the green light in writing.

The absence of a response from the Admin is also disgraceful. Now I understand there are far more important things in life that could prevent someone from getting in to a long discussion on the matter but a simple post to say "hey won't be able to deal with this until X date but I'll clarify everything then". Instead it has been left to CMODS and other Admins to guess what was possibly going on and it leaves everyone a little confused.

I think this issue needs to reach a conclusion in a public thread so anyone who is a member of a private forum on Boards knows exactly what is acceptable and what to steer clear of.




Free the PFJ 24

Calhoun

To be fair to the admin team they have explained why there was no response , it doesn't help the discussion by dragging the topic back up and calling them a disgrace as it's emotive language and will not lead to the answer you want.

Felexicon

Calhoun wrote: »

To be fair to the admin team they have explained why there was no response , it doesn't help the discussion by dragging the topic back up and calling them a disgrace as it's emotive language and will not lead to the answer you want.

I actually think the Admins that have tried to answer questions in this thread have done a very good job since they don't really know the definite answers. I also said the actions of he Amin in question were a disgrace not the person themselves.
Also it's an emotive topic for those affected by it so emotive language is very much justified

padd b1975

From what I have read about the goings in in the PJf forum, I am glad to see the back of it and it's clique of sneering childish posters.

Yep...it's a clique, nothing more, nothing less.

IMHO cliques are a cancer in online forums such as boards and this one really should not be facilitated in the way it has been. Hopefully the powers that be take what was allowed to fester in this secret corner and use it as a reminder not to let anymore forums for such antics be sustained here into the future.

Felexicon

padd b1975 wrote: »

From what I have read about the goings in in the PJf forum, I am glad to see the back of it and it's clique of sneering childish posters.

Yep...it's a clique, nothing more, nothing less.

IMHO cliques are a cancer in online forums such as boards and this one really should not be facilitated in the way it has been. Hopefully the powers that be take what was allowed to fester in this secret corner and use it as a reminder not to let anymore forums for such antics be sustained here into the future.

Well of course they were a clique. They were a group of mates in a private forum.

Fester, Secret Corner, Cancer? You've really drank the Kool Aid pal.

Anyway I don't want to get dragged in to a childish discussion as the topic needs to be resolved

nesf

Xavi6 wrote: »

So pretty much the same as PFJ then.

Any out of the blue threats of closure in there?

Yeah the old format (years ago) was quote a post from boards including the username and dissect it. The forum was told it could not do this a few years back and told to change or be closed. The mods and users of the forum came up with the current anonymous examples format that's the norm in there now. If memory serves.

Wibbs

Not quite Nesf. The sticky is still there to show examples of speling/grammer*, with the caveat "names if you want". From what I've seen most don't, I never did on those times I got on my OCD high horse, but the option to name names still exists.

That said I don't think this is the private forum some have suggested is on Boards, that takes the piss wholesale of other Boardsies. Spell Czechs has one thread and that in the majority of cases nobody is naming names. The way this other possible forum is described sounds a far far cry from that.

So does such a forum exist? Maybe the folks who have already mentioned it earlier and seem to have some experience of the place can confirm it?



*EDIT* Having read the first few pages of the above thread in SC from back in 06, Dev steps in and makes it clear that no need to start looking dicks, or the forum hasn't long to live. Seems to calm down after that, but yep a random trawl through the rest of the pages still has the odd name/link to post for discussion come up.








*veins protrude on some.