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LoLth

Beasty wrote: »

Well if that's the sort of thing going on in there the place should be closed down

it wasnt all the time and it didnt have the same level of animosity and Thunderdome but it was prolonged (over a period of years in the case of one particular user) and there were very clear site rules violations and forum charter violations that were let slide by or were actively encouraged.

I'm not trying to villify the PFJ forum as a whole, I just dont accept this mis-remembered image of a happy-go-lucky-carebear-level-of-offensive group of well behaved lads being victimised by some evil admin who had it in for them all along. Or the evil admins that were watching them 24/7 . If we were monitoring things with any degree of regularity or depth, those things would have been picked up at the time and I would have been recommending some form of sanction against the user(s) involved a lot stronger than an on thread warning about behaviour.

Fratton Fred

LoLth wrote: »

it wasnt all the time and it didnt have the same level of animosity and Thunderdome but it was prolonged (over a period of years in the case of one particular user) and there were very clear site rules violations and forum charter violations that were let slide by or were actively encouraged.

I'm not trying to villify the PFJ forum as a whole, I just dont accept this mis-remembered image of a happy-go-lucky-carebear-level-of-offensive group of well behaved lads being victimised by some evil admin who had it in for them all along. Or the evil admins that were watching them 24/7 . If we were monitoring things with any degree of regularity or depth, those things would have been picked up at the time and I would have been recommending some form of sanction against the user(s) involved a lot stronger than an on thread warning about behaviour.

Now you've just gone through a forum looking for reasons to vilify it.

Beasty

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Now you've just gone through a forum looking for reasons to vilify it.

and shown exactly why it should be more closely supervised. I stand by my earlier comments - this type of behaviour must raise questions over the future of the forum. I don't see why the "chosen few" should get to look at other people's PMs (or indeed take the piss out of mods or any other users) without the sort of sanctions that would be applied elsewhere on the site.

KERSPLAT!

Funny that users are giving out about a forum not being completely private but a mod posting a private message from a non-member, for all the forum to see, is ok.

Liam McPoyle

So a forum exists where members would appear to have carte blanche to say what they want about ANY member of Boards, whether that person is part of the forum or not?

Wow, just wow.

Any private forum I've been a part of had one caveat and that was that discussion of non members was a no no yet at least one exists where not only discussion is allowed but basically anything once it stays within the forum is allowed?

And people complained about the Dome???

Jesus Christ, at least Domers made a concious decision to be "in the game".

LoLth

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Now you've just gone through a forum looking for reasons to vilify it.

nope. If you read my first post on this thread you'll see that I mentioned it this incident there already. I have also explained my methods for checking a forum (post 72 - a response to you actually) . The example in my last post is just a slight expansion on the example I cited in my first post - post #48 . Though I am aware that there is another PM posting incident, a PM from the same user actually, almost a year earlier involving different members of PFJ. (found this one by using the PM sender username as the search term, not much of a leap of deductive reasoning required there).

would you like me to PM you a link to both incidents so you can comment on them yourself?

Mr Alan

It's funny watching the admins attempt to vilify the place now. Well actually it's not funny, it's a crying shame. The simple fact is that the PFJ is now gone from Boards. Well done Admin.

I haven't posted that much lately on boards in general (I got a new job & I'm busy, but sure the admins probably know that anyway from reading our private forum). The PFJ was pretty much the only thing that kept me coming back to boards being honest, and now it's not here so I suspect my relationship with boards will die over the coming weeks.

That forum was actually the only thing really keeping much of that group of people here despite the huge drop in quality on boards.ie over the last few years. Most people in the forum were boards users for around 10 years. I just jumped into the OT thread in PFJ & the first 8 random users on the last page had a combined total of 200,000 odd posts. These are people who have made boards what it is.

Many of these posters have modded some of the largest forums on this site, many have attended boards events (and that's is putting it mildly), in fact many have organised boards events, managed the football team, been involved in charity initiatives run on boards, put in countless hours developing the community feel that boards.ie likes to pride itself on. In fact, some of the forum in question were even rolled out when there was a TV show being made focussing on the community that boards.ie have evolved into, such was their contribution to making boards.ie what it is.

However, that's all forgotten about just because upon a casual snoop around a private forum an admin with a history of putting people's nose out of joint with her actions, came across someone who slagged her mate in a private forum. She threatened to close down the forum, despite the fact the guy who owns this place, or whatever, has specifically said if we wanted to slag people off in the privacy of our own corner of boards.ie, that was fine.

All that said, it's too late, PFJ is now gone from boards. We've been able to find a new home, we've been able to collect money from members, able to arrange hosting & all the other IT schtuff required to keep OUR community alive elsewhere. And we did that in less than the time it's taken for the admin who caused all this to make a post on the matter.

LoLth; your contribution here has been appreciated as in reality this is a mess you did not create. However, it is difficult to watch you try and villify the PFJ now in order to make some sort of excuse for the admin in question snooping around our private forum like a creep. I'm not sure that's what you're trying to do, but that's how it reads to me.

Admin team; I would advise you remove Thaedyl or whatever her name is from her position as a matter of urgency. This event should clearly demonsrate that she is incapable of doing the job that is required from her.

Wibbs

Posting another members private message for others to "discuss" is really not fcuking on. The private part should be a heads up to even the most hard of thinking.

Boggles

Beasty wrote: »

and shown exactly why it should be more closely supervised. I stand by my earlier comments - this type of behaviour must raise questions over the future of the forum. I don't see why the "chosen few" should get to look at other people's PMs (or indeed take the piss out of mods or any other users) without the sort of sanctions that would be applied elsewhere on the site.

I assume you would advocate a detailed retro sweep of all private forums and apply the same question about their future?

4zn76tysfajdxp

Wibbs wrote: »

Posting another members private message for others to "discuss" is really not fcuking on. The private part should be a heads up to even the most hard of thinking.

It's laughable to see the members defend the place after that was revealed. Privacy goes both ways, lads.

John Mason

oh does this mean, all private forums are going to reviewed retrospectively and all offending posters and post removed?

i am aware of 2 private forums which i am not a member of discussing me in the vilest of terms. there has also been things from personal life dicussed, including some upsetting medical issues

Beasty

Boggles wrote: »

I assume you would advocate a detailed retro sweep of all private forums and apply the same question about their future?

If there is suspicion this sort of behaviour is happening in other hosted forums, yes, or an edict be issued making it absolutely clear that this sort of behaviour is totally unacceptable

Hopefully local mods will take it onboard and deal with this sort of thing appropriately. It seems to me though that it's absolutely right that there should be someone glancing an eye over these forums and if necessary stepping in to deal with issues the local mods have let go

Fratton Fred

Wibbs wrote: »

Posting another members private message for others to "discuss" is really not fcuking on. The private part should be a heads up to even the most hard of thinking.

Generally I would agree, but I would suggest the content of the PM plays a part in that, as well as how widely it is being shared. The PFJ had 22 or so active members,

KERSPLAT!

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Generally I would agree, but I would suggest the content of the PM plays a part in that, as well as how widely it is being shared. The PFJ had 22 or so active members,

The message should be between the sender and the recipient and no one else. If there's something wrong with the mail, report it

Boggles

Beasty wrote: »

If there is suspicion this sort of behaviour is happening in other hosted forums, yes, or an edict be issued making it absolutely clear that this sort of behaviour is totally unacceptable

How would the suspicion criteria work?

There is already an edict from Dav, do you mean a new edict?

LoLth

John Mason wrote: »

oh does this mean, all private forums are going to reviewed retrospectively and all offending posters and post removed?

i am aware of 2 private forums which i am not a member of discussing me in the vilest of terms. there has also been things from personal life dicussed, including some upsetting medical issues

I honestly dont know but it is an action I would not be completely against as long as the logistics of it are practical. I wouldnt go so far as to punish someone for an old post but removing the post would certainly seem like a reasonable compromise to prevent its replication somewhere less private in the future. Certainly it is a discussion worth having with the admins and hmods together.

out of curiosity: did you attempt to contact someone with access to the forum, and authority to take action - say a hmod of the forum or an admin - to ask them to investigate your suspicion (I assume it is a suspicion and not a verified fact given that you are not a member of the forums in question) and take action as required?

also out of curiosity: do you think it is fair that you were being discussed , including upsetting medical issues , in a forum you could not access to defend yourself or even be party to what was being said?

Beasty

Boggles wrote: »

There is already an edict from Dav, do you mean a new edict?

Too bloody right it needs a new edict to bring forums like this into order

Fratton Fred

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

The message should be between the sender and the recipient and no one else. If there's something wrong with the mail, report it

So someone can send an unsolicited message to someone they've never met and expect the recipient to keep it entirely secret?

knucklehead6

Beasty wrote: »

Too bloody right it needs a new edict to bring forums like this into order

Just to clarify not all hosted Forums are "like this". This is an isolated incident, and shouldn't be used as a big stick to bash all the other Hosted Forums.

5starpool

PFJ was akin to a constant night out between a group of mates. If I'm out with a group of mates and someone said "oh wait until you hear what this twat said to me the other day", or "isn't so and so a prick?" then there would be general discussion around those things, with some possibly disagreeing, and some agreeing, and the conversation would move on.

It appears that boards is not the place for those type of things any more, so fear ye not, put your monocles back in place, for PFJ have relocated to where we can continue to do what Dev said we could do years ago (albeit obviously the PM posting thing was not allowed) and continuing enjoying the company of those we enjoy. Boards and it's members will not be an oft discussed subject in overall terms, but it is with a heavy heart that I have to say that we will likely refer to some people who are not posters in disparaging terms. Some will be politicians, some people we work with that we complain about, some may even be posters here.

I am not throwing the boards bathwater out with the baby, and I will continue to use parts of the site, but both my 2 main community uses for boards over the years have been relocated off site now. The only other one I use that is anyway similar nearly got single handedly destroyed by a power crazy mod years ago, but thankfully she is not involved there any more and sense has reigned for the most part since.

I know most won't care, and the "ye broke the rules, it's terrible Joe" type people will continue to have fun between a very carefully selected set of lines, but we'll be thinking of ye.

LoLth

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So someone can send an unsolicited message to someone they've never met and expect the recipient to keep it entirely secret?

They can send an unsolicited message. yes.

They cant expect it to be kept entirely a secret, they can expect the message to be reported so it can be actioned as spam (sitebane) or offensive (siteban) .

I think there was a discussion a long time ago on why private messages should not be posted for others to read. Not least because the sender could send a personal message to someone by accident. Wrong recipient + an admin is a lot less embarrassing than wrong recipient + his mates.

Beasty

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So someone can send an unsolicited message to someone they've never met and expect the recipient to keep it entirely secret?

If it's unsolicited report it - I cannot believe someone who has been on the site so long does not understand the very simple rules concerning the non-disclosure of PMs

Kold

Beasty wrote: »

If it's unsolicited report it - I cannot believe someone who has been on the site so long does not understand the very simple rules concerning the non-disclosure of PMs

Yeah but instead of being so patronising, explain why it's in place?

ShiverinEskimo

Why do I get the feeling my legitimate complaint is in the process of being swept under the carpet by a great big brush of interference?

All the attention has now shifted to the infractions that could have been punished and weren't, rather than the non-infraction that shouldn't have been punished and was. Dav's clear guidelines pretty much gave a green flag to have a right old bitch (should we wish) about anyone and everyone as long as it is kept private - which everything you're referring to was. He specifically said as long as it stays private the Admins won't get involved. Well it stayed private and the Admins got involved anyways - including Dav himself (who has also been remarkably quiet since - I thought he was an actual employee so would have a daily presence on Boards).

It should be noted too that the trangressions mentioned above wasn't some MO of the PFJ. The day-to-day was abusing each other (as mates do - 'banter' as one might call it but I'm not a fan of the term) and shooting the shít about daily life in general. The way the conversation in this thread is being directed (away from the Admin who has killed a community on boards, toward the villification of that community) is very convenient for the Admin involved - who by the way seems to have fulfilled her taxing duties of real life and yet still hasn't had the courtesy of responding to a complaint made about her.

4zn76tysfajdxp

5starpool wrote: »

PFJ was akin to a constant night out between a group of mates. If I'm out with a group of mates and someone said "oh wait until you hear what this twat said to me the other day", or "isn't so and so a prick?" then there would be general discussion around those things, with some possibly disagreeing, and some agreeing, and the conversation would move on.

It appears that boards is not the place for those type of things any more, so fear ye not, put your monocles back in place, for PFJ have relocated to where we can continue to do what Dev said we could do years ago (albeit obviously the PM posting thing was not allowed) and continuing enjoying the company of those we enjoy. Boards and it's members will not be an oft discussed subject in overall terms, but it is with a heavy heart that I have to say that we will likely refer to some people who are not posters in disparaging terms. Some will be politicians, some people we work with that we complain about, some may even be posters here.

I am not throwing the boards bathwater out with the baby, and I will continue to use parts of the site, but both my 2 main community uses for boards over the years have been relocated off site now. The only other one I use that is anyway similar nearly got single handedly destroyed by a power crazy mod years ago, but thankfully she is not involved there any more and sense has reigned for the most part since.

I know most won't care, and the "ye broke the rules, it's terrible Joe" type people will continue to have fun between a very carefully selected set of lines, but we'll be thinking of ye.

Playing the martyr because your forum got a rap on the knuckles for posting about non-members and sharing private messages. My heart bleeds.


lol

Boggles

Beasty wrote: »

Too bloody right it needs a new edict to bring forums like this into order

Into order or closed down, they are completely different you can appreciate?

So you wouldn't be for retro sweeps of ALL private forums regardless of who the members are, only if they raise suspicion?

I still don't understand the suspicion part.

Beasty

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Just to clarify not all hosted Forums are "like this". This is an isolated incident, and shouldn't be used as a big stick to bash all the other Hosted Forums.

fair enough - that's why I stated that they should be reviewed if there is suspicion of it going on - someone has already indicated they believe there to be 2 private forums where they have been the subject of discussion "in the vilest terms"

I don't think an edict making it clear to all such forums that such behaviour is unacceptable could be considered "bashing" those who are already "compliant", particularly if it is in effect changing those edicts already in place

KERSPLAT!

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So someone can send an unsolicited message to someone they've never met and expect the recipient to keep it entirely secret?

Report it if you have a problem with it

John Mason

LoLth wrote: »

I honestly dont know but it is an action I would not be completely against as long as the logistics of it are practical. I wouldnt go so far as to punish someone for an old post but removing the post would certainly seem like a reasonable compromise to prevent its replication somewhere less private in the future. Certainly it is a discussion worth having with the admins and hmods together.

out of curiosity: did you attempt to contact someone with access to the forum, and authority to take action - say a hmod of the forum or an admin - to ask them to investigate your suspicion (I assume it is a suspicion and not a verified fact given that you are not a member of the forums in question) and take action as required?

also out of curiosity: do you think it is fair that you were being discussed , including upsetting medical issues , in a forum you could not access to defend yourself or even be party to what was being said?

oh, i know for a fact, i have seen the screen shots but tbh do i care what small minded people in a computer say - not really.

i am wondering why one private forum has been singled out for such an in dept retrospective review ?

Beasty

Boggles wrote: »

So you wouldn't be for retro sweeps of ALL private forums regardless of who the members are, only if they raise suspicion?

I still don't understand the suspicion part.

Very simple - I said I am in favour of Admins keeping an eye on such forums - if they spot something like this, or someone raises a specific complaint then I think that satisfies the criteria of "suspicion". If after a review everything is hunky dory, then great - if not then I would have no problem if the Admins came down like a ton of bricks and if necessary close or threaten with closure if the behaviour warrants it