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5starpool

Priscilla Massive Memorandum wrote: »

Playing the martyr because your forum got a rap on the knuckles for posting about non-members and sharing private messages. My heart bleeds.


lol

Nothing martyr like about it, tbh, just stating the truth.

If anyone here who is saying how awful it is has ever had similar conversations in the pub, then they are a hypocrite. Some of what happened was against boards rules, yes (I don't *think* I ever published anyone else's PM's personally), but it is the type of conversations that happens between groups of mates. Bitching about a boss, colleague, family member even, or just someone you know, happens all the time. It seems to not be suitable for boards now, so it's not a problem for boards any more. Simple.

KERSPLAT!

John Mason wrote: »

oh, i know for a fact, i have seen the screen shots but tbh do i care what small minded people in a computer say - not really.

i am wondering why one private forum has been singled out for such an in dept retrospective review ?

So you have seen private posts from another private forum... Yet are aggrieved when your privacy is breached... Jaysus.

Beasty

John Mason wrote: »

i am wondering why one private forum has been singled out for such an in dept retrospective review ?

Well that's because a member of that particular forum came into this thread complaining about the behaviour of an Admin in that forum

ShiverinEskimo

Beasty wrote: »

Well that's because a member of that particular forum came into this thread complaining about the behaviour of an Admin in that forum

Yet here we are on trial while the Admin in question goes about their daily routine.

ArmaniJeanss

Beasty wrote: »

Too bloody right it needs a new edict to bring forums like this into order

This appears only the opinion of the current admins, not actually the opinion of paid employees and presumably 'head-honchos' of boards like Dav, nor the stated opinion of Devore some years ago (not sure what role he has now in the grand scheme of things).

But surely its ultimately up to them to decide if there a need for a forum to be bloody well brought to order, not something for the admins to arbitrarily decide.

(I'm not a member of PFJ for whats it worth).

Kold

Priscilla Massive Memorandum wrote: »

Playing the martyr because your forum got a rap on the knuckles for posting about non-members and sharing private messages. My heart bleeds.


lol

The forum is not defined by the issue. The issues in question are .00005 of the posts in the forum and I draw exception to every member being tarnished with this 'they group up and talk sh1t about people' opinion of the forum that you're pushing obsequiously. You're being pretty simplistic.

Oh look a non-issue post that members were mature enough to not really care about didn't cause a stir in the forum. Obviously they deserve to be spied on.

knucklehead6

5starpool wrote: »

Nothing martyr like about it, tbh, just stating the truth.

If anyone here who is saying how awful it is has ever had similar conversations in the pub, then they are a hypocrite. Some of what happened was against boards rules, yes (I don't *think* I ever published anyone else's PM's personally), but it is the type of conversations that happens between groups of mates. Bitching about a boss, colleague, family member even, or just someone you know, happens all the time. It seems to not be suitable for boards now, so it's not a problem for boards any more. Simple.

there's a bit of a difference between a conversation between friends in a pub about someone else and printed text saved on a corporate entity's servers

Xavi6

If someone can get Beruthiel to post in this thread, seeing as she's back with us, that would be great. I'm only hitting refresh to see if she has the decency to hold her hands up to her cock up in all this (as per LoLth's assertion). It'll mean I can draw a line under all this and head off to pastures new because there's nothing else to be gained from the back and forth.

Cheers.

muffler

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm only hitting refresh to see if she has the decency to hold her hands up to her cock

I've met her in RL and trust me, she's all woman

Fratton Fred

knucklehead6 wrote: »

there's a bit of a difference between a conversation between friends in a pub about someone else and printed text saved on a corporate entity's servers

So stating in a public place that some twat called X on boards sent me a PM saying blah blah is ok, but saying it in the privacy of a private forum is not ok?

knucklehead6

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So stating in a public place that some twat called X on boards sent me a PM saying blah blah is ok, but saying it in the privacy of a private forum is not ok?

fred, you're smart enough and around long enough to know that nothing said on the internet should be regarded as private.

Fratton Fred

knucklehead6 wrote: »

fred, you're smart enough and around long enough to know that nothing said on the internet should be regarded as private.

Sure it is. everything on the interweb is true as well.

Nody

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So stating in a public place that some twat called X on boards sent me a PM saying blah blah is ok, but saying it in the privacy of a private forum is not ok?

You can go to the pub and state that person X is a wanker and anything else you can think off if you want because while at the pub you're not putting boards at risk of being taken to court (you as an individual can still be taken to court for it obviously). If you post the same statement on boards then boards is liable due to how the law is designed today (along with yourself).

Does that make sense from a logical point of view? No. Is that how the courts have stacked the deck by previous cases? Yes.

knucklehead6

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Sure it is. everything on the interweb is true as well.

that's the point, isn't it? If you went to the pub with the other PFJ lads and said that knucklehead5 sent you a pm and it had some pretty salacious details about his girlfriends sister, there's nothing to say that you're not making that up. You post it in a pm and that's proof that is stored on servers and backups and tapes and all sorts of stuff.

If KH5's girlfriends sister sees those patently untrue posts then she can sue... she'd have to hear you say it in the pub for her to sue.

oscarBravo

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

The way the conversation in this thread is being directed (away from the Admin who has killed a community on boards, toward the villification of that community) is very convenient for the Admin involved - who by the way seems to have fulfilled her taxing duties of real life and yet still hasn't had the courtesy of responding to a complaint made about her.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Yet here we are on trial while the Admin in question goes about their daily routine.

There's been one warning about turning this into a witch hunt. There won't be any more.

Fratton Fred

knucklehead6 wrote: »

that's the point, isn't it? If you went to the pub with the other PFJ lads and said that knucklehead5 sent you a pm and it had some pretty salacious details about his girlfriends sister, there's nothing to say that you're not making that up. You post it in a pm and that's proof that is stored on servers and backups and tapes and all sorts of stuff.

If KH5's girlfriends sister sees those patently untrue posts then she can sue... she'd have to hear you say it in the pub for her to sue.

Except that no one knows who you are (on the presumption you real name isn't Knucklehead).

It also needs to be something worth suing over as well. If I sent you a PM claiming to be pregnant with your child, damn right I'd want it kept quiet, if I sent you some gobblebollocks about seagulls following trawlers, then I'd expect that to be less sensitive.

ShiverinEskimo

oscarBravo wrote: »

There's been one warning about turning this into a witch hunt. There won't be any more.

Presumeably the same applies to the witch hunt directed at the PFJ forum for the last two pages?

Xavi6

It seems my last post and the reply to it have disappeared. Strange.

bumper234

Xavi6 wrote: »

It seems my last post and the reply to it have disappeared. Strange.

Mine too :eek:

Wibbs

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Generally I would agree, but I would suggest the content of the PM plays a part in that, as well as how widely it is being shared. The PFJ had 22 or so active members,

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So someone can send an unsolicited message to someone they've never met and expect the recipient to keep it entirely secret?

Again it's really very simple. The clue is in the title; Private Message.

If I sent you a PM claiming to be pregnant with your child, damn right I'd want it kept quiet, if I sent you some gobblebollocks about seagulls following trawlers, then I'd expect that to be less sensitive.

When it's expected to be a private message, levels of sensitivity are not yours to judge as a recipient making the message public.

Sorry FF but I have a real sore point about PM's. It was one of the reasons I liked this site, that compared to quite the number of others out there private meant private, except in extreme circumstances.

Beasty wrote: »

Too bloody right it needs a new edict to bring forums like this into order

Great plan. Let's get more heavyhanded about private forums. Given that 99.whatever % of the content of such private forums is perfectly fine. Even in the particular case of this private forum it seems we have two "ah here lads" posts, one going back three weeks out of what appears to be a high traffic forum of regulars. Or was a high traffic forum of regulars. Now apparently they've left Boards. IMHO kinda need to take a step back and breathe here. Don't need that kinda thing spreading as a meme.

Fratton Fred

Wibbs wrote: »

Again it's really very simple. The clue is in the title; Private Message.

When it's expected to be a private message, levels of sensitivity are not yours to judge as a recipient making the message public.

Sorry FF but I have a real sore point about PM's. It was one of the reasons I liked this site, that compared to quite the number of others out there private meant private, except in extreme circumstances.

For some reason the image of a naked middle aged DJ has just entered my mind.

I'm only seeking to put in to context what happened.

P_1

To borrow a quote from Cool Hand Luke, it seems to me that 'what we've got here is failure to communicate'. It has happened in the past and sadly it does seem to be happening again.

It seems that the posters of the private forum in question have a grievance about how an incident was handled by a particular admin and would like to hear the reasoning behind it from the admin in question. Nothing witch-hunty about that in my eyes and no ill will meant to the admins who have offered answers but I think that the longer the admin in question stays out of the debate the worse the ill feeling will get.

ShiverinEskimo

P_1 wrote: »

It seems that the posters of the private forum in question have a grievance about how an incident was handled by a particular admin and would like to hear the reasoning behind it from the admin in question. Nothing witch-hunty about that in my eyes and no ill will meant to the admins who have offered answers but I think that the longer the admin in question stays out of the debate the worse the ill feeling will get.

This is it in a nutshell. I was wrongly singled out by an Admin, I'm seeking dialogue with said Admin, and now being warned for witch-hunting from another Admin.

I've tried to be as courteous as possible in seeking reasons for the actions the Admin took. I was infracted and I'd like to know why. The Admin who has infracted me has decided to do it and then go dark for 3 days and counting. If this is dragging on and descending into chaos it's because the admin who can stop it from doing so chooses not to.

Mycroft H

Certain people here need to lose the laughable sense of entitlement. The only reason private fora exist is simply because they're let exist. If they get shut, well, that's that.

Free speech doesn't exist here as much as it does not exist on any privately owned irish fora simply because Boards.ie is laiable for every little thing that is published upon this website and just because it's a private forum doesn't mean the law doesn't extend to you. Abusing other posters who can't defend themselves by the very nature of a private forum is overstepping the mark. Publishing PM to have a laugh over is totally overstepping the mark, something that should never happen without the explicit permission of both parties.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

It should be noted too that the trangressions mentioned above wasn't some MO of the PFJ. The day-to-day was abusing each other (as mates do - 'banter' as one might call it but I'm not a fan of the term) and shooting the shít about daily life in general.

Well giving out about someone down the pub with your mates is up to yourself; it's something that's highly unlikely to be recorded, but posting it on Boards? Your immediately starting on thin ice; it's recorded on the internet, be it private or not, it can easily spread. And you don't have to worry about the consequences.

Lovely Bloke

Mycroft H wrote: »

If they get shut, well, that's that.

...that's that HERE.

Set up elsewhere, it will cost us a tenner each for the software and hosting to keep going what we have, tabbed browsing means the experience is the exact same.

And we can talk about who or what we want.

It's been a line from the high-ups on Boards since 1999 - don't like it, go elsewhere.

So we did.

coffee_cake

Mycroft H wrote: »

Certain people here need to lose the laughable sense of entitlement. The only reason private fora exist is simply because they're let exist. If they get shut, well, that's that.

In fairness, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be any consistency & clarification either. And they weren't discussing free speech, they were going off guidelines. I don't agree with the publishing PMs obviously but that's a bit separate and I think there's issues on both sides here.

Fratton Fred

There is a thread running on After Hours that starts off with someone saying lady gags is annoying as hell. Pretty much run of the mill AH stuff.

That is a real identifiable person and is acceptable. Many other celebs, Bono for example, get much much worse treatment.

Compared to this, the bit of slagging a mod received, who is unidentifiable, was minor and took place on a private forum.

Lovely Bloke

bluewolf wrote: »

In fairness, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be any consistency & clarification either. And they weren't discussing free speech, they were going off guidelines. I don't agree with the publishing PMs obviously but that's a bit separate and I think there's issues on both sides here.

There are absolutely are issues on both sides, however, the only reason anyone apart from members of the private forum and Admins know about any other issues within the forum is because Admins started airing dirty laundry. As is their wont.

We know what happened two days ago, that issue was complained about here, to let users of other private forums know that all was not quite as it seemed in official pronouncements, maybe to stop people from posting anything further of a personal nature in a forum that is not quite as private as they may think.

Let me tell you. We've had people talk about addiction, death of loved ones, mental health problems, illness, football, music, TV Shows, films, the guy who cut them up on their drive to work this morning, a crazy post they saw elsewhere on boards, a private message, commenting on a users posting style, people saying they don't like someone, others saying that that person is actually sound so lay off there will you.

People have sought and found help from their friends for stuff they'd never, ever post on a public forum. Yes, everyone knew Admins were liable to pop in - but not in the way it happened, it was the nature of the incursion that is leaving a bad taste. Yes, there may be a bad taste in the mouths of the Admins too - this was badly handled on both sides.

However, once that incursion happened wheels were put in motion to set up a separete hosted, completely different private forum of our own. We are a close knit bunch of diverse people, and everyone, to a one, has either chipped in or will chip in so we can continue on our way.

From a personal perspective, it's sad that it's come to this. No matter what some admins think, I do really like - have loved - this website. Christ, I met my wife thanks to it, I set up the football team (which just last week won the league again), and I appeared on television to highlight what I thought was an excellent community that deserved to be bigger and better than anything else. It's certainly bigger, I don't know about better.

I don't know what is going to happen next, I hope everyone gets to keep their Boards accounts, and gets to use the site, the public forums and whatever other private forums they use, without prejudice.

Bad things have happened, on both sides. Each side thinks the other did worse, and that will hardly be reconciled.

I see no point in this being dragged out further, it's going in circles.

knucklehead6

I just don't follow that anyone who posted on boards for as long as the PFJ lads did that you DIDN'T realise that nothing is private!

Boggles

knucklehead6 wrote: »

I just don't follow that anyone who posted on boards for as long as the PFJ lads did that you DIDN'T realise that nothing is private!

Would the replies the OP received on this thread not lead you to make the same assumption? Or at least the OP make the same assumption.

For the record as far as I can see, no one has said complete privacy was expected, I completely agree with the replies the OP received.