ANNIE POWER

Gringo180

UrbanSea wrote: »

There are few high class mares around and they were fair but a poor bunch. You forgot to mention that was MTOY comeback and she was flattered by her proximity to him. I wouldn't use the beating of that lot as evidence of how good she could be all mares races tend to be awful

They were no mugs, the 2nd is rated 140 and the third horse Alasi got within 4 lengths of Quevega one year in the mares hurdle.

premierstone

Gringo180 wrote: »

They were no mugs, the 2nd is rated 140 and the third horse Alasi got within 4 lengths of Quevega one year in the mares hurdle.

Alasi is a ten year old mare who has won a grand total of two hurdle races her entire career, both were mare only races, and she was trounced by an underpar Quevega 12 months ago, the race you refer to was two years ago and sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of her form.

UrbanSea

Not even near Grade 1 form. How you can say she would easily beat the CH field is hard to gauge on what she has done. Even more so her easily winning an Ascot Gold Cup

Gringo180

UrbanSea wrote: »

Not even near Grade 1 form. How you can say she would easily beat the CH field is hard to gauge on what she has done. Even more so her easily winning an Ascot Gold Cup

I was messing about the Ascot Gold cup was a tongue in cheek remark. I know its not grade 1 form but its the manner she done it in, Ruby didn;t have to move a muscle on her. But her performance before that is the one that does it for me, she danced all over Zarkandar and beat him in second gear it was just like a race course gallop for her, ive seen no horse to do that to Zarkandar who is a top class animal in his own right.

BumperD

I know we all hear differently when we listen to that piece with RR that Gringo put up, but when pressed by Chapman about the CH, RR clearly stated that he viewed the CH or WH are both top races in their own right. Unless I'm imagining things, thats what he said. Chapman was quite deliberate in his question and RR acknowledged that with a wry smile.

Its clear to me, from listening to that piece alone, that they are keeping their options open, which makes total sense ie if the CH field for some horrible twist of fate falls apart, then she could, possibly, be routed there. However, with the current lineup, I suspect the WH is a real possibilty. If the supermare Quevega didn't make it, and the WH field looked very strong, she might go to that race. While I don't do antepost betting that NRFB has really opened that up as a betting propospition for those interested in her in the CH though if you think shes value. IMO, she would not have the tactical speed to beat HF, OC, TNO or even MTOY in a 16F contest.

Huntley

She is good value to run to a low 160 mark. Tack on the half a stone she gets and it allows her to be competitive at the top races. She is no more outstanding than any other horse who is able to run to a mark in the high 160s.

klairondavis

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Mullins and Walsh truly believe that she has little hope of beating Hurricane Fly and have expressed this view to Ricci?

premierstone

klairondavis wrote: »

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Mullins and Walsh truly believe that she has little hope of beating Hurricane Fly and have expressed this view to Ricci?

No its not at all and infact is probably the most likely scenario.

zpehtsfd

klairondavis wrote: »

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Mullins and Walsh truly believe that she has little hope of beating Hurricane Fly and have expressed this view to Ricci?

Since when is horse racing that straightforward? Rich Ricci has a live chance of winning one of the three premier races in Cheltenham and he would be a fool not to take it. The WH used to be a sideshow, but since the extra day it's now a highlight. It's just an afterthough for many horses and BB is a prime example of this. Bring back the good old days when all an owner wanted to do was win the CH/CC/GC.

klairondavis

zpehtsfd wrote: »

Since when is horse racing that straightforward? Rich Ricci has a live chance of winning one of the three premier races in Cheltenham and he would be a fool not to take it. The WH used to be a sideshow, but since the extra day it's now a highlight. It's just an afterthough for many horses and BB is a prime example of this. Bring back the good old days when all an owner wanted to do was win the CH/CC/GC.

I'm no fan of the Stayers Hurdle myself (I refuse to call it the World Hurdle!). However, I think it's likely that Mullins and Walsh are telling Ricci that she would have a stronger chance in the longer race than in the Champion.

I remember the same debate when Asian Maze was in her pomp. She would have been a very short price for the Stayers and would probably have won it on the strength of her subsequent Punchestown win. Connections wanted her to take her chance in the Champion Hurdle where she was only one of the contenders rather than the main contender. They didn't consider the Stayers prestigious enough to pass up an outside chance in the Champion. Ricci will have to make the same decision but I strongly suspect that Mullins and Walsh both believe she has stronger claims on the Thursday than the Tuesday.

Gringo180

Just looking back at Ricci's last runner in the Champion, Zaidpour, his 4 runs prior to his crack at that years CH were over distances of 23f, 20f, 24f, & 16f.

zpehtsfd

klairondavis wrote: »

However, I think it's likely that Mullins and Walsh are telling Ricci that she would have a stronger chance in the longer race than in the Champion.

Yes you're right. As much as i think AP should run in the CH i think the deciding factor for RR will be the fact that Ruby will be available for the WH. Here's to hoping she goes the CH route.

BumperD

Gringo180 wrote: »

Just looking back at Ricci's last runner in the Champion, Zaidpour, his 4 runs prior to his crack at that years CH were over distances of 23f, 20f, 24f, & 16f.

Fair point. But the horse finished 8th so it's not a successful comparison on which I'd lay my hat on.

BumperD

http://www.irishracing.com/news?prid=74416&headline=Ruby-assesses-Annie-s-prospects

Jockey Ruby Walsh has admitted Annie Power's exuberance would be a slight concern if she runs in the Ladbrokes World Hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival.
Willie Mullins' unbeaten mare stretched her unbeaten record to 10 races at Doncaster on Saturday but she was noticeably keen before the race.

Annie Power has three options in March - the Champion Hurdle, the David Nicholson Mares' Hurdle and the World Hurdle over three miles.

"I don't think any of the three races would inconvenience her," Walsh told Racing UK.

"Does she have enough experience over two miles for a Champion Hurdle, do you want to expose her to At Fishers Cross and Big Buck's over three miles and risk emptying her out, or do you throw her in against Quevega? Thankfully, I don't have to make that decision.

"She's a good mare. The most impressive she was for me was at Cheltenham against Zarkandar. I have no worries about her getting three miles.

"Even last year when she won a Grade One over two and a half miles the further we went the better she went, but she doesn't lack pace.

"She was more on her toes at Doncaster than she has been any other day but she's always been highly strung - so that (going over three miles at Cheltenham) would be a worry. But that's part of every big race, how they handle the parade and the build up.

"I wish I had a say in which races they ran in but I have none. It's the downside of having a good job, having to choose between good horses, but that's life."

hucklebuck

RichieLawlor wrote: »

She has never ran over 3 miles, she is unbeaten over 2 miles. It's not rocket science as to where she should line up

Just because she hasn't run at three doesn't mean it's not her target.

Zarkandar has decent form in the book over 2m and hasn't run over 3m, does that mean he should not run in the World Hurdle.

hucklebuck

Huntley wrote: »

She is good value to run to a low 160 mark. Tack on the half a stone she gets and it allows her to be competitive at the top races. She is no more outstanding than any other horse who is able to run to a mark in the high 160s.

Good value alright but surely capable of more that that given how facile her wins have been. If she can run a 165, Big Bucks would have to be as good as ever to beat her.

I just can't see her going in the Champion myself, the World Hurdle looks a handy £150k for her and a handy few quid for me too.

On the Champion, a mark of 177 could be required (not far of the best ever I would guess) given the depth of talent in it this year.

ste2010

BumperD wrote: »

I know we all hear differently when we listen to that piece with RR that Gringo put up, but when pressed by Chapman about the CH, RR clearly stated that he viewed the CH or WH are both top races in their own right. Unless I'm imagining things, thats what he said. Chapman was quite deliberate in his question and RR acknowledged that with a wry smile.

Its clear to me, from listening to that piece alone, that they are keeping their options open, which makes total sense ie if the CH field for some horrible twist of fate falls apart, then she could, possibly, be routed there. However, with the current lineup, I suspect the WH is a real possibilty. If the supermare Quevega didn't make it, and the WH field looked very strong, she might go to that race. While I don't do antepost betting that NRFB has really opened that up as a betting propospition for those interested in her in the CH though if you think shes value. IMO, she would not have the tactical speed to beat HF, OC, TNO or even MTOY in a 16F contest.

RR was clearly all about the CH in that interview...he mentioned this is what she was trained for since the start of the year.

ste2010

BumperD wrote: »

http://www.irishracing.com/news?prid=74416&headline=Ruby-assesses-Annie-s-prospects

Jockey Ruby Walsh has admitted Annie Power's exuberance would be a slight concern if she runs in the Ladbrokes World Hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival.
Willie Mullins' unbeaten mare stretched her unbeaten record to 10 races at Doncaster on Saturday but she was noticeably keen before the race.

Annie Power has three options in March - the Champion Hurdle, the David Nicholson Mares' Hurdle and the World Hurdle over three miles.

"I don't think any of the three races would inconvenience her," Walsh told Racing UK.

"Does she have enough experience over two miles for a Champion Hurdle, do you want to expose her to At Fishers Cross and Big Buck's over three miles and risk emptying her out, or do you throw her in against Quevega? Thankfully, I don't have to make that decision.

"She's a good mare. The most impressive she was for me was at Cheltenham against Zarkandar. I have no worries about her getting three miles.

"Even last year when she won a Grade One over two and a half miles the further we went the better she went, but she doesn't lack pace.

"She was more on her toes at Doncaster than she has been any other day but she's always been highly strung - so that (going over three miles at Cheltenham) would be a worry. But that's part of every big race, how they handle the parade and the build up.

"I wish I had a say in which races they ran in but I have none. It's the downside of having a good job, having to choose between good horses, but that's life."

That last line would suggest the CH is what's on the cards at the moment

Gringo180

hucklebuck wrote: »

On the Champion, a mark of 177 could be required (not far of the best ever I would guess) given the depth of talent in it this year.

Is it 7lb mare allowance in the champion? If thats the case running to 170 will win her it, she's already ran to 165 without being asked serious questions.

Gringo180

ste2010 wrote: »

That last line would suggest the CH is what's on the cards at the moment

This excites me

Huntley

Gringo180 wrote: »

Is it 7lb mare allowance in the champion? If thats the case running to 170 will win her it, she's already ran to 165 without being asked serious questions.

Any rating she has now is inclusive of her allowance. If you want to put her on even terms then her 165 performance would be 158 if she wasn't getting half a stone.

Gringo180

Huntley wrote: »

Any rating she has now is inclusive of her allowance. If you want to put her on even terms then her 165 performance would be 158 if she wasn't getting half a stone.

Okay my bad I didn't know that, so basically she would have to improve 12lbs to run to that 177 to win the champion or would it be 19lbs

Huntley

Her rating is based on her having a 7lbs allowance as she will always have it. If she were to run to 177 it would require a 12lbs improvement on her current official mark.

Gringo180

Huntley wrote: »

Her rating is based on her having a 7lbs allowance as she will always have it. If she were to run to 177 it would require a 12lbs improvement on her current official mark.

There's easily another stones improvement left in her tank. She is 7/1 for the Champion thats massive imo.

hucklebuck

Gringo180 wrote: »

Okay my bad I didn't know that, so basically she would have to improve 12lbs to run to that 177 to win the champion or would it be 19lbs

Sorry I think I confused things, I was saying 165 on the bare form and the allowance would make it 172, Big Bucks best is 173.

razorhead

The horse that finished last on Saturday Pass The Time was joint 2nd fav in that race that Low Key - the Curly gamble - on Wednesday last. Just an observation...

BumperD

Rich Richi will be talking to ATR this morning re Annie Power on the Sunday forum.

jimjamcos

BumperD wrote: »

Rich Richi will be talking to ATR this morning re Annie Power on the Sunday forum.

Pretty pointless interview. Isn't going to say anything he hasn't said in last few weeks.

ft9

"I am sensitive to Willie & the yard. I recognise the sense of history that's all going on." Rich Ricci when asked of Annie Power on ATR.

jimjamcos

BumperD wrote: »

Rich Richi will be talking to ATR this morning re Annie Power on the Sunday forum.

Actually gave a decent interview.

dicky dunne

jimjamcos wrote: »

Actually gave a decent interview.

Ye I was impressed enough with it, I got the vibe she's world hurdle bound, said he values Willie's and Ruby's opinions greatly and will go where they think she is most likely to win

BumperD

jimjamcos wrote: »

Actually gave a decent interview.

I always like listening to him. Open and honest. He did mention Tarare as a dark one for the bumper.

hucklebuck

ft9 wrote: »

"I am sensitive to Willie & the yard. I recognise the sense of history that's all going on." Rich Ricci when asked of Annie Power on ATR.

Music to my ears, she will be in the World Hurdle so.

jimjamcos

hucklebuck wrote: »

Music to my ears, she will be in the World Hurdle so.

She has to be going to WH. Just doesn't make sense that Ruby would be so unselfish and ride her in a Doncaster canter at the expense of Gr1 at Cheltenham and a full book of rides in Ireland, if he wasn't going to be riding her come Cheltenham.

Gringo180

Cant see Annie Power staying 3 miles

lemush

Gringo180 wrote: »

Cant see Annie Power staying 3 miles

Absolutely no doubt as to her staying.

Malarkey121

Always a doubt imo, every horse stays just some better than others under different variables of course, pace, racing prominent, sitting behind, going, track, muddling pace, a slog on soft ground etc.

They are animals and some can get "used" to running their 2 mile or 2m4f race and not settle as much for a 3 miler just saying as I see it happening quiet often.

Panrich

If this bad weather keeps up, they will have a dilemma in my opinion regarding the world hurdle. Anything on the soft side and that will be a race of real attrition. Not what I'd be looking at if I owned her. She might be kept for Aintree if they don't want to take on HF but could run into another stablemate UDS there.

byronbay2

Panrich wrote: »

If this bad weather keeps up, they will have a dilemma in my opinion regarding the world hurdle. Anything on the soft side and that will be a race of real attrition. Not what I'd be looking at if I owned her. She might be kept for Aintree if they don't want to take on HF but could run into another stablemate UDS there.

Yeah, agree that they won't want to run her over 3 miles (at Cheltenham pace!) on soft ground - this year anyway. I think Ricci has got to run her in the CH under those circumstances, whether Willie/Ruby like it or not. I don't like the idea of "waiting" for Aintree at all.

Of course, Cheltenham drains very well now and could have perfect ground in 5 weeks. In that case, I reckon they will send her to the WH.

In either case I wouldn't back her, to be honest, although I respect her ability. Tough CH to win this year and need a dour animal for The Stayers, which she hasn't proven yet. Would give her a squeak in either race but too short in both.