Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 mod warning post #5144

bad2dabone

emergingstar wrote: »

I reality out challenge faded when theo got injured

And when Ramsey was out for longer than first thought. Having said that we've done better than I thought we would before the season started

Spanish Johnny

emergingstar wrote: »

I reality out challenge faded when theo got injured

Probably the most accurate assesment of the whole situation in fairness.

AdamD

AdamD wrote: »

Which is a terrible excuse given that it happened BEFORE the transfer window.

And when they come back?

What do you do with stars you bought to cover them?

emergingstar

AdamD wrote: »

Which is a terrible excuse given that it happened BEFORE the transfer window.

Who would you have bought in this window to replace theo

And what's the chances he settles to have a great 6 months

Wenger said is perfectly nothing buying a player that your stuck with for 3/4 years and ya don't need

(I will try root out the exact quote)

Alfred Borden

Deleted User wrote: »

And when they come back?

What do you do with stars you bought to cover them?

Competition for places which is healthy for s big successful club. Look at Monreal and Gibbs, both coming on as players. we need that depth in every area.

AdamD

emergingstar wrote: »

Who would you have bought in this window to replace theo

And what's the chances he settles to have a great 6 months

Wenger said is perfectly nothing buying a player that your stuck with for 3/4 years and ya don't need

(I will try root out the exact quote)

I'm not a scout, its not my job to come up with Walcott replacements. Not that it needed to be a direct replacement anyway, we needed 1 attacker at a minimum. I'm not for a second buying this bollocks that we can't find a striker better than Giroud, there's probably 10 better in the PL alone. Hes not an elite striker and hes not even in the bracket below that, so utterly replaceable.

People are lapping up Wenger's words all too easily on this imo, they made it quite clear in September that we messed up by not signing a striker in the summer, then proceeded to not sign one in January. And as a slight aside, you in particular (nothing against your posts in general) keep mentioning bedding in time as if its a given. Plenty of players make instant impacts in the PL, Cazorla and Podolski being obvious examples from Arsenal alone, both have actually gotten worse over time in the PL in fact.

This is just annoying me now, I can't see how people can continue to defend the transfer policy, we had a unique opportunity this year. The league will be far tougher to win next season.

bad2dabone

Another one nil win for spurs. Should we be looking over our shoulders?

Wait we're nine points ahead of them. Panic averted.


For the moment!

Spanish Johnny

AdamD wrote: »

I'm not a scout, its not my job to come up with Walcott replacements. Not that it needed to be a direct replacement anyway, we needed 1 attacker at a minimum. I'm not for a second buying this bollocks that we can't find a striker better than Giroud, there's probably 10 better in the PL alone. Hes not an elite striker and hes not even in the bracket below that, so utterly replaceable.

People are lapping up Wenger's words all too easily on this imo, they made it quite clear in September that we messed up by not signing a striker in the summer, then proceeded to not sign one in January. And as a slight aside, you in particular (nothing against your posts in general) keep mentioning bedding in time as if its a given. Plenty of players make instant impacts in the PL, Cazorla and Podolski being obvious examples from Arsenal alone, both have actually gotten worse over time in the PL in fact.

This is just annoying me now, I can't see how people can continue to defend the transfer policy, we had a unique opportunity this year. The league will be far tougher to win next season.

Really? And you reckon we would get them handy enough ya do? Are you talking Suarez, Rooney, Aguero here is it? As in some of the 10 better than Giroud? Do ya reckon we could have got them in January is it??

Walcott is an elite an unique player. Not many we could replace him with at all.

AdamD

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Really? And you reckon we would get them handy enough ya do? Are you talking Suarez, Rooney, Aguero here is it? As in some of the 10 better than Giroud? Do ya reckon we could have got them in January is it??

You clearly missed the point I was making

symbolic

bad2dabone wrote: »

Another one nil win for spurs. Should we be looking over our shoulders?

Wait we're nine points ahead of them. Panic averted.


For the moment!

6 points?

djPSB

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This place is ridiculous.

No Theo or Rambo. We did well, led the league, now it's caught up with us.

No RVP or Rooney for Man U. F*cked it and now probably not going to make cl.

Sense of perspective people!

Do ye think Arsenal are fairly nailed on for a top 4 finish?

Spurs 6 points behind Arsenal and Liverpool.

Arsenal have quite a tough run in and lacking a bit of momentum at the minute.

Spurs aren't exactly firing on all cylinders either though.

bad2dabone

symbolic wrote: »

6 points?

Panic back on!

emergingstar

djPSB wrote: »

Do ye think Arsenal are fairly nailed on for a top 4 finish?

Spurs 6 points behind Arsenal and Liverpool.

Arsenal have quite a tough run in and lacking a bit of momentum at the minute.

Spurs aren't exactly firing on all cylinders either though.

We have the same chance of the title or to drop out of the too 4 as Liverpool no?

Alfred Borden

Wow was worried that Spurs might catch us but their march isnt much better than ours

bad2dabone

Raf32 wrote: »

Wow was worried that Spurs might catch us but their match isnt much better than ours

Panic off again.

jonneymendoza

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Martinez has a release 30 million plus and scores goals in Portugal though Raf. Not realistic IMO.

Also we should ask-why are we having this debate today?

We lose to Stoke and still in the race and we attack the failure to sign a striker.

Was our striker exclusively at fault yesterday?

Who named is better than Giroud?

What did wr create yesterday for our striker?

Our midfield was awful. Need to have some perspective too.

we had two clear cut chances that girud and senogo flopped

Spanish Johnny

AdamD wrote: »

You clearly missed the point I was making

Which is?

You have complained that we have failed to sign a striker we should have attained and suggested there are 10 better in the EPL. Who are they? Name me the 10 gettable strikers in the EPL better than Giroud?

Spanish Johnny

Bear in mind that Olivier Giroud is in the top 5 EPL Goalscorers this season and top 5 in assists also.

Only Eden Hazard and Luis Suarez feature in both tables.

Spanish Johnny

jonneymendoza wrote: »

we had two clear cut chances that girud and senogo flopped

Which Giroud chance? Ya Sanogo maybe should have done better but look at the replay - if that ball is kept lower its getting blocked. Stoke players all in the way.

We created nothing. We were terrible. This is what we need to be worried about and our Manager needs to be worried about. Not harping back to the striker we don't have that no one can identify.

Alfred Borden

Yaya Toure has more league goals than Giroud. Aguero has 3 more and he has been injured for half the season.

Spanish Johnny

Raf32 wrote: »

Yaya Toure has more league goals than Giroud. Aguero has 3 more and he has been injured for half the season.

True-super players!! Only 4 players have more goals than Giroud.

Giroud has more assists than Toure and Aguero.

Imagine had Ramsey and Walcott been fit where both those stats might be.

tayto lover

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Agreed on Higuain. United were even blown out of the Hazard deal financially and similarly Chelsea did us Mata.

We had to bargain until this year given the position of theclub. Even now though we will never ever beat City or Chelsea for wages.

Agree.
And i'm not a Wenger out person either.
If Wenger has a fault it's probably that he is too involved in the money side of things.
He should request the player he wants and allow the Board to get him.
Plus he did not have that team motivated yesterday. They were brutal.
I'd blame him for that and the fact that he didn't play Ox.

I never mind losing as long as we give our all. We didn't seem to get out of the blocks yesterday until we went one down.

bad2dabone

I've not seen anyone here call for wenger out

Alfred Borden

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

True-super players!! Only 4 players have more goals than Giroud.

Giroud has more assists than Toure and Aguero.

Imagine had Ramsey and Walcott been fit where both those stats might be.

No doubt he would have a good few more assists but his goal tally might be only 3 or 4 better. He has played over 1000 minutes more than Aguero and still 3 goals shy. We have the best midfield in the league imo, so need a goalscorer to start banging the goals in. With the exception of Saturday we create a minimum of 3 good chances for whoever the striker is a game.

djPSB

emergingstar wrote: »

We have the same chance of the title or to drop out of the too 4 as Liverpool no?

Yep pretty much.

Liverpool have a slightly easier run in and more momentum at the minute though. Not involved in any other competitions either.

Spanish Johnny

tayto lover wrote: »

Agree.
And i'm not a Wenger out person either.
If Wenger has a fault it's probably that he is too involved in the money side of things.
He should request the player he wants and allow the Board to get him.
Plus he did not have that team motivated yesterday. They were brutal.
I'd blame him for that and the fact that he didn't play Ox.

I never mind losing as long as we give our all. We didn't seem to get out of the blocks yesterday until we went one down.

Ya same as. I know he has the return from injury thing but he is back a while now.

Did he have the team motivated adequately? I don't know can any of us know that? I thought Podolski, Rosicky etc were motivated yesterday. I just thought they played ****.

Spanish Johnny

Raf32 wrote: »

No doubt he would have a good few more assists but his goal tally might be only 3 or 4 better. He has played over 1000 minutes more than Aguero and still 3 goals shy. We have the best midfield in the league imo, so need a goalscorer to start banging the goals in. With the exception of Saturday we create a minimum of 3 good chances for whoever the striker is a game.

As has nearly every player in the EPL bar Suarez and Sturridge. If Aguero is the standard we are holding him too I am delighted.

As for the rest Raf we are no where as good as that going forward and have not been for a long while.

Alfred Borden

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

As has nearly every player in the EPL bar Suarez and Sturridge. If Aguero is the standard we are holding him too I am delighted.

As for the rest Raf we are no where as good as that going forward and have not been for a long while.

Fact is though Suarez and Sturridge have scored 11 and 6 goals more than him in less time. Yaya Toure a midfielder and Aguero who has played a 1000 less minutes have 1 and 3 more than him. Hazard, another midfielder has the same as him. these are the clubs we are competing with in fairness and being our only centre forward his goal tally is brutal. Agree that we may not be as fluid in attack as we used to be but chances are still being created. we need a pacy forward for our game like one of liverpools strikers. we have the best #10 in the world, put a goalscorer infront of him and there would be plenty of goals in this team.

AdamD

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Which is?

You have complained that we have failed to sign a striker we should have attained and suggested there are 10 better in the EPL. Who are they? Name me the 10 gettable strikers in the EPL better than Giroud?

I'm not saying lets sign a striker specifically from the PL, was merely using it as an example of there being a large number of strikers better than him around. A better, gettable winger than Walcott, I accept would be virtually impossible. But I'm not buying it for Giroud. Not gonna bother naming 10 strikers it'll just get messy with people arguing over individuals etc

Spanish Johnny

Raf32 wrote: »

Fact is though Suarez and Sturridge have scored 11 and 6 goals more than him in less time. Yaya Toure a midfielder and Aguero who has played a 1000 less minutes have 1 and 3 more than him. Hazard, another midfielder has the same as him. these are the clubs we are competing with in fairness and being our only centre forward his goal tally is brutal. Agree that we may not be as fluid in attack as we used to be but chances are still being created. we need a pacy forward for our game like one of liverpools strikers. we have the best #10 in the world, put a goalscorer infront of him and there would be plenty of goals in this team.

Selective at best Raf with respect. Fact is that he his a top scorer and assist maker in the league whether we like him or not. He is also suffering the loss of this best assist makers in Walcott and Ramsey. Why aren't we looking at it from that angle?

As for the best #10 in the world? No not this season.

Spanish Johnny

AdamD wrote: »

I'm not saying lets sign a striker specifically from the PL, was merely using it as an example of there being a large number of strikers better than him around. A better, gettable winger than Walcott, I accept would be virtually impossible. But I'm not buying it for Giroud. Not gonna bother naming 10 strikers it'll just get messy with people arguing over individuals etc

But why are people saying it and not backing it up? I want this better striker I really do. But who or where is the one we missed out on in January that seems so obvious to some of ye yet cant be identified?

Alfred Borden

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Selective at best Raf with respect. Fact is that he his a top scorer and assist maker in the league whether we like him or not. He is also suffering the loss of this best assist makers in Walcott and Ramsey. Why aren't we looking at it from that angle?

As for the best #10 in the world? No not this season.

Is it not selective so to be saying he is in the top 5 goals scored and assists made and not look at it per minute? When Theo and Ramsey were fit this year and last he was only our third top goalscorer to them. Thats grand when they are fit but when both went down he had to step up his record and instead went off fooling around in his personal life. maybe he would be the best 10 in the world had he a quality scorer in the team? amount of chances he has teed up for our strikers.

Spanish Johnny

Raf32 wrote: »

Is it not selective so to be saying he is in the top 5 goals scored and assists made and not look at it per minute? When Theo and Ramsey were fit this year and last he was only our third top goalscorer to them. Thats grand when they are fit but when both went down he had to step up his record and instead went off fooling around in his personal life. maybe he would be the best 10 in the world had he a quality scorer in the team? amount of chances he has teed up for our strikers.

I am looking per minute. He is still in the top 5 minus Aguero? Hazard and and Rooney and Suarez since his return haven't missed much and he is in with them?? Plus ahead of EVERYONE else in the EPL??

To be quite frank Raf as a man that as watched all of our games and many of them twice I am struggling to think of all these great chances Ozil has created for our strikers. I do appreciate there are good reasons for that (absence of Ramsey/Walcott) but all these chances created don't exist.

My point is Giroud misses Ramsey and Walcott as much as Ozil would you not agree?

Do we actually not all agree that we miss pace and players in behind. The harsh fact is we are missing our two best a present?

gosplan

Comparing Giroud to Toure, Hazard and Suarez is rediculous.

farna_boy

Raf32 wrote: »

Fact is though Suarez and Sturridge have scored 11 and 6 goals more than him in less time. Yaya Toure a midfielder and Aguero who has played a 1000 less minutes have 1 and 3 more than him. Hazard, another midfielder has the same as him. these are the clubs we are competing with in fairness and being our only centre forward his goal tally is brutal. Agree that we may not be as fluid in attack as we used to be but chances are still being created. we need a pacy forward for our game like one of liverpools strikers. we have the best #10 in the world, put a goalscorer infront of him and there would be plenty of goals in this team.

Part of the problem with Giroud is that not only he has played 1000 minutes more than Toure but that he had to play those 1000 minutes because there was no other option. Giroud has played 2146 minutes in the PL for Arsenal this year with only Per (2250) and Scez (2430) having more minutes than him. And yet he still chases every ball and tries to close down people.

Even if he had been able to have a break when he was out of form he could have done much better for us. We all said that he needed a back up and we are paying for it now.

dvemail

Tbh, we can't really be slating Giroud. We paid €12 million for him, and is on around 70k a week probably.
Comparing him to players like Aguero,Toure and Hazard who are on 200k plus a week is just silly.

Alfred Borden

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

I am looking per minute. He is still in the top 5 minus Aguero? Hazard and and Rooney and Suarez since his return haven't missed much and he is in with them?? Plus ahead of EVERYONE else in the EPL??

To be quite frank Raf as a man that as watched all of our games and many of them twice I am struggling to think of all these great chances Ozil has created for our strikers. I do appreciate there are good reasons for that (absence of Ramsey/Walcott) but all these chances created don't exist.

My point is Giroud misses Ramsey and Walcott as much as Ozil would you not agree?

Do we actually not all agree that we miss pace and players in behind. The harsh fact is we are missing our two best a present?

Suarez, Sturridge, Aguero, Toure, Remy, Van Persie, Lukaku and Rooney have all better goals to minutes ratios in the league this year. Its just worrying because he is the vocal point of our attack. I have watched every single minute this year and think there is definitely enough chances created that a top striker would be putting up numbers like the above. Ozil has games where he will create three good chances and then none in the next. But we still have the creativity of Santi who is a fine playmaker.
Agreed this team is badly missing the two of them but would disagree that Giroud misses them as much as Ozil. Ozil is the playmaker who creates maybe the assist or the key pass to make the goal which the running of Ramsey and Walcott offers. But Giroud is a striker, we have enough playmakers, we need someone to bang in the goals and get on the end of things and thats his responsibility which he doesnt do good enough imo. Great link up man however with some great touches and would be fine with him if the other two were fit as their goal contributions would hide his lack of contribution.

Alfred Borden

Im not slating Giroud at all, love his work ethic and his general link up play, He is being asked an impossible job leading the line for a full season with no backup and that has to fall on Arsene.

batistuta9

statically giroud is worse than lambert & chamakh

emergingstar

Why is the giroud thing brought up again after Saturday

When clearly midfield was our problem

Y2KBOS86

Deleted User wrote: »

This place is ridiculous.

No Theo or Rambo. We did well, led the league, now it's caught up with us.

No RVP or Rooney for Man U. F*cked it and now probably not going to make cl.

Sense of perspective people!

Poor excuse.

Moyes is useless and going to be sacked soon.

Fergie would still have them challenging.

Wenger blew this title in January!

Everyone knows it!!

Specialist in failure tag will be hard to shake if he doesn't win something this year or next, sadly.

farna_boy

emergingstar wrote: »

Why is the giroud thing brought up again after Saturday

When clearly midfield was our problem

That doesn't stop him being blamed when Ozil has a bad game. Why not extend it to the rest of the team?

emergingstar

farna_boy wrote: »

That doesn't stop him being blamed when Ozil has a bad game. Why not extend it to the rest of the team?

Agree

Where is the critisism of jack and pod

Alfred Borden

emergingstar wrote: »

Agree

Where is the critisism of jack and pod

I have gave my views on Wilshere and in the match thread about pod. Wouldnt be too sad to see him go if replaced with a proper winger.

gosplan

Wenger has a huge fault IMO.

He has never been and will never be the kind of manager that can just go out and fill a gap. He trusts his players on the pitch and the system comes from their qualities.

He just can't 'Redknapp it' if you get my meaning.
I think that people who expect him to go out and add exactly what's needed don't really get the way he works.

Now this is undoubtedly a fault, or at least has been this year .. But that's just the way it worked out this year.

I'd rather think of what we'd be like if we never sold RVP, Fabregas and Nasri and were more attractive to players we went after like Ronaldo, Hazard or Mata.

That's the future under Wenger.

Sadly I just don't think he's the kind of guy that can just go out and fill a gap in the squad at the first opportunity but give this team 3/4 years and we'll be on top.

dvemail

The only player that did anything of worth yesterday was Chamberlain.
Everybody else was poor. Hope i never have to see that deep lying pair of Arteta and Wilshere again.
Awful stuff.

Alfred Borden

dvemail wrote: »

The only player that did anything of worth yesterday was Chamberlain.
Everybody else was poor. Hope i never have to see that deep lying pair of Arteta and Wilshere again.
Awful stuff.

Agreed even though I thought Arteta played well. Him and Ramsey is our best pairing, Artetas lack of movement is made up with Rambos engine and vice versa regarding discipline.

Spanish Johnny

emergingstar wrote: »

Why is the giroud thing brought up again after Saturday

When clearly midfield was our problem

Nail on the head again.

dvemail

emergingstar wrote: »

Why is the giroud thing brought up again after Saturday

When clearly midfield was our problem

No fight at all from them. Don't think we won any 50-50 or a header for that matter.

Spanish Johnny

gosplan wrote: »

Comparing Giroud to Toure, Hazard and Suarez is rediculous.

In a positive or negative sense?

He was getting stick and the point was made he is not up to it. I don't think he should be our top striker in an ideal world but he is punching above his weight. The facts are he is scoring and assisting as a lone front man in the top 5 in the League. Those are the facts. He shares those stats with Suarez, Hazard and Toure whether it sounds silly or not those are the facts of the season so far.

My underlying point is that we put in a terrible performance on Saturday that is largely down to our midfield and we go back and blame it on not signing a better striker in January. We created 1 good chance. That has to improve dramatically.