Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 mod warning post #5144

Soups123

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Giroud gets 15-20
Ramsey, Walcott, Özil all get 10-15
Cazorla, Podolski, Wilshere etc. all get 5-10

Everyone else gets the usual 2, 3, 4 etc.

Relying on only one player to get your goals is asking for trouble.

If everyone gets what is expected of them, we're in a great position. Unfortunately, the injuries and failures in big games have screwed us over. We could have coped with one or the other but not both.

Every team needs and wants a centre forward that scores goals. If he was doing something else ala a Drogba etc. then fair enough but his overall game is not good enough and for the chances he gets he misses too many. He really just isn't good enough with his overall play.

He ain't the reason we lost today or the reason we won't win the league but he is in one of the areas that needs improving. Maybe competition will bring him on another level

G1032

gnfnrhead wrote: »

You said:



Özil disproves that. If it is someone Wenger wants, he's willing to pay. £40m is a massive amount of money, especially for us, but Wenger went out and paid it showing he is willing to pay that little bit extra when he feels it is worth it.

Also, Wenger obviously disagrees that Higuain was worth it. On top of that, all along we had been told a certain price, Wenger was apparently very close to it and then Madrid raised it. I dont blame him one bit for not playing that game. Let's say Wenger met the new value, whats to stop them upping it again when it worked the first time? If you go to the shop and want to buy something for €10, but after picking it up you then get told it now costs €20, are you going to just hand it over or go look elsewhere?

I'm not getting into an argument about this but I said that Arsenal are unwilling to pay that little bit extra. Ozil was worth the 42 million. Arsenal did not pay over the odds for him. They didn't pay any 'extra'.
Wenger would not pay the extra couple of million for Higuain. Thats what I'm on about. They haggle and argue and ultimately pull out of deals beacuse they won't pay that little bit extra. Imagine what a difference Higuain would have made to this season
He wasn't bought because as you rightly point out Wenger didn't believe he was worth it. He was willing to pay 27 milllion but not 30.
But players are worth what the market dictates. The market is different to what Wenger thinks it should be. It's penny pinching, it's ludicrous and it is ultimatley costing Arsenal trophies. We weren't talking about double what Wenger thought hhiguain was worth, just an extra few million.

tayto lover

extra gravy wrote: »

Giroud had a great chance to put us one up...a chance that a top striker would take 9 times out of 10. But instead, he scuffed it just like he has done with several big chances in big games this season. Chelsea then went straight up the field and Eto, who may be past his best but is still world class, takes his chance. That's the difference.

Right to a point.
Chelsea went up the field and scored when Ox gave the ball away stupidly when we had possession. Something Santi also did a few minutes later.

Soups123

Fergie used to play his flair/attacking players when playing lesser teams. Come a big game the likes of Fletcher/Park etc came in he played big games different, Mourinho does it a bit.

We go into every game in the same way if it clicks great if it doesn't it's carnage, Wenger needs to look at other teams more and adapt our team and squad were needed

tayto lover

bad2dabone wrote: »

yes. i'd say he's beyond angry. like us i'd say he's embarrassed.

FYP

Alfred Borden

Soups123 wrote: »

Fergie used to play his flair/attacking players when playing lesser teams. Come a big game the likes of Fletcher/Park etc came in he played big games different, Mourinho does it a bit.

We go into every game in the same way if it clicks great if it doesn't it's carnage, Wenger needs to look at other teams more and adapt our team and squad were needed

Best post today imo

tayto lover

Soups123 wrote: »

Fergie used to play his flair/attacking players when playing lesser teams. Come a big game the likes of Fletcher/Park etc came in he played big games different, Mourinho does it a bit.

We go into every game in the same way if it clicks great if it doesn't it's carnage, Wenger needs to look at other teams more and adapt our team and squad were needed

Exactly.
As some of us said yesterday he should have played both Flamini and Arteta and played very defensively. That way we could have held out and frustrated them and maybe even have sneaked a goal. Play our back 4 far closer to our goal too as we just can't play a high line.
Wenger played straight into Murinho's hands.
It was too easy for them.

Soups123

tayto lover wrote: »

Exactly.
As some of us said yesterday he should have played both Flamini and Arteta and played very defensively. That way we could have held out and frustrated them and maybe even have sneaked a goal. Play our back 4 far closer to our goal too as we just can't play a high line.
Wenger played straight into Murinho's hands.
It was too easy for them.

I was convinced this would be how he would play it, criminal that Flamini didn't start. We saw what happened at Pool without him.

tayto lover

Soups123 wrote: »

I was convinced this would be how he would play it, criminal that Flamini didn't start. We saw what happened at Pool without him.

Yes. AND we were torn apart on our left-side today. Spurs did it last week and luckily didn't score. No way were Chelsea not going to exploit that weakness today. Wenger should have seen that and worked on fixing it all week.

Alfred Borden

Liverpool really are motoring now and are gonna keep up with the two big boys. Really want to see us secure 4th soon so we can focus on the cup.

tayto lover

Raf32 wrote: »

Liverpool really are motoring now and are gonna keep up with the two big boys. Really want to see us secure 4th soon so we can focus on the cup.

I really fear Wigan.
Martinez will exploit our weaknesses. He is tactically brilliant.

Colonialboy

Soups123 wrote: »

Fergie used to play his flair/attacking players when playing lesser teams. Come a big game the likes of Fletcher/Park etc came in he played big games different, Mourinho does it a bit.

We go into every game in the same way if it clicks great if it doesn't it's carnage, Wenger needs to look at other teams more and adapt our team and squad were needed

I AGREE BUT
WENGER HAS BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING HE DOESNT CHANGE HIS TEAM SELECTION BASED ON THE OPPOSITION...

G1032

tayto lover wrote: »

I really fear Wigan.
Martinez will exploit our weaknesses. He is tactically brilliant.

???
He manages Everton now......

Mr.Micro

Colonialboy wrote: »

I AGREE BUT
WENGER HAS BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING HE DOESNT CHANGE HIS TEAM SELECTION BASED ON THE OPPOSITION...

With respect to Wenger, he is not going to change his style. Surely he can see that he needs to adapt to the current way the Pl teams play. He has become so predictable as good as he is.

ronjo

tayto lover wrote: »

I really fear Wigan.
Martinez will exploit our weaknesses. He is tactically brilliant.

Well that gave me a laugh.

Wakes wakey tayto

tayto lover

G1032 wrote: »

???
He manages Everton now......

Thank God then

ronjo

tayto lover wrote: »

Thank God then

Unfortunately we have to play Everton away still this season though.

FA Cup is totally, incredibly and indisputably critical now though.

Alfred Borden

ronjo wrote: »

Unfortunately we have to play Everton away still this season though.

FA Cup is totally, incredibly and indisputably critical now though.

Yup top 3 are gone now. Cup or bust

ronjo

tayto lover wrote: »

Thank God then

Fergie has retired too in case you are wondering what is going on at Old Trafford :pac:

greendom

Thought Ox was poor today and should have been played out wide where he can really use his pace. Despite his assist last week I thought he was poor vs Spurs too.

We looked so much better with Flamini on the pitch it's difficult to fathom why he wasn't picked from the start. Maybe AW doesn't trust him to stay on the pitch for the full 90. Arteta is really struggling with the defensive midfield role this season. He was brilliant at it last year.

Hopefully heads can be lifted for the Swansea and City games next week. Really need to bring some pride back

I'd say we'll get 4th after todays results. We're 8 points ahead of Everton, who have a game in hand. 3 behind Liverpool (who I suspect will come third)

So head wrecking watching the key injuries and the affect they have.

If we get Rambo and Ozil back up and running, we'll be ok. But it'll be too little too late.

Total pain in the *rse this season. Title was there for the taking.

tayto lover

I hope Wenger doesn't rush players back as a result of this and completely crock them. Is Ramsey actually back in training or are we just being fed stuff?

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

I hope Wenger doesn't rush players back as a result of this and completely crock them. Is Ramsey actually back in training or are we just being fed stuff?

Last I heard he was planning on making the City game next weekend. He will surely only start on the bench though.

gnfnrhead

I wouldnt bother with Ramsey for City. He'll need a couple of games to get back up to speed and the games after that are much better for that. Cant really afford to be easing players in against City.

keano_afc

dvemail wrote: »

Expecting a good backlash from this team against Swansea midweek. No excuses.

We didn't get a backlash after the Man City and Liverpool defeats. We got two 0-0 draws, one of which was against a woeful Man United side. Expect something similar against Swansea and "steadying of the ship".

Wenger is spot on when he blames himself alone for today. Appalling preparation, again, bad tactics and the wrong midfield picked. Something is seriously wrong with how we approach games against the big teams and he is doing nothing to address it. It's very very worrying. He's just not learning. I'm not going to go on about Giroud, we know he is completely ineffective against better defences. It's a sorry indictment of Wenger that he's had 2 transfer windows, or 4 calendar months, to find a striker we can trust in games like today and he hasn't delivered.

I had a dream during the week that Hull beat us 3-1 in the cup final. I laughed about it but am seriously worried now. It'll potentially a huge game and time and time again Wenger has proved he just cannot motivate them for the big ones.

gnfnrhead

keano_afc wrote: »

We didn't get a backlash after the Man City and Liverpool defeats. We got two 0-0 draws, one of which was against a woeful Man United side. Expect something similar against Swansea and "steadying of the ship".

Nice of you to leave out who the other 0-0 was against. Chelsea. As you can see, it could have been much worse.

Plus, we always struggle against United, no matter how good or bad they are. They are the one team we are guaranteed to struggle against.

keano_afc

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Nice of you to leave out who the other 0-0 was against. Chelsea. As you can see, it could have been much worse.

Plus, we always struggle against United, no matter how good or bad they are. They are the one team we are guaranteed to struggle against.

A Chelsea team who came for a point and got it. They were a different team to the one we played today.

My point was the performances were poor after the big defeats. It was Wengers job to lift the players for the United game. They played with no belief. The buck stops with the manager on that one.

purplepanda

Maire2009 wrote: »

I really shouldn't be bothered responding to your ramblings but I'll humour you. What other "top European club" has moved to a new ground and had to make £30mil a year, thus preventing them from spending big to top players?

All the money made by selling the old stadium & profits on building 3000 homes, not to mention increased lucrative TV & sponsorship deals, added to highest priced tickets in world football, has been wasted by Wenger on lucrative contracts for injured & substandard / deadwood players & his own salary amongst others.

Ever since the stadium move the club has constantly been amongst the richest clubs in world football & amongst the most profitable. The stadium loan payments have easily been covered by increased home match revenues.

We are the 4th richest club in England, but the club & Wenger are constantly chanting their mantra that we have no money whilst lining their own pockets.

Every season Wenger says judge me in May, which May does he mean?
Next season will be the season when the club spends big, like every close season promised before. :mad:

Wenger is becoming a later day Brian Clough, yesterdays man harking back to the long gone glory days. Wenger will never win a League or European Cup as Arsenal manager ever again. His time is up.

keano_afc

keano_afc wrote: »

We didn't get a backlash after the Man City and Liverpool defeats. We got two 0-0 draws, one of which was against a woeful Man United side. Expect something similar against Swansea and "steadying of the ship".

Wenger is spot on when he blames himself alone for today. Appalling preparation, again, bad tactics and the wrong midfield picked. Something is seriously wrong with how we approach games against the big teams and he is doing nothing to address it. It's very very worrying. He's just not learning. I'm not going to go on about Giroud, we know he is completely ineffective against better defences. It's a sorry indictment of Wenger that he's had 2 transfer windows, or 4 calendar months, to find a striker we can trust in games like today and he hasn't delivered.

I had a dream during the week that Hull beat us 3-1 in the cup final. I laughed about it but am seriously worried now. It'll potentially a huge game and time and time again Wenger has proved he just cannot motivate them for the big ones.

Your post is fairly spot on but let's worry about the semi final first yeah because the way things are going Rosler will fancy his chances

omega man

Right this minute I just desperately want to see us win the FA cup and that's all. I'm getting a bit bored (or maybe exhausted) of the standard end of season battle for fourth for us to only go on the following season and exit in the 2nd round.

If qualifying for the CL is just about maximising profits for AFC then I'm losing interest, fast. Yes I want to see my team playing against the elite of Europe but not just to make up the numbers. I want to compete to win the CL but for now I just want a flipping trophy and a day/night of celebrations and to forget the last 8 years. Please please arsenal do not screw up the cup, that's all I ask this season. The CL can wait.

Alfred Borden

omega man wrote: »

Right this minute I just desperately want to see us win the FA cup and that's all. I'm getting a bit bored (or maybe exhausted) of the standard end of season battle for fourth for us to only go on the following season and exit in the 2nd round.

If qualifying for the CL is just about maximising profits for AFC then I'm losing interest, fast. Yes I want to see my team playing against the elite of Europe but not just to make up the numbers. I want to compete to win the CL but for now I just want a flipping trophy and a day/night of celebrations and to forget the last 8 years. Please please arsenal do not screw up the cup, that's all I ask this season. The CL can wait.

Agreed! for the last few years i was all about getting the top 4 and that we had to be there but this season i really couldnt care. Obvious the higher we finish the better, but for a season that could have been so much 4th doesnt feel like much consolation. The cup is vital tbh, if we dont win it then I dont know where this team goes from here as they would have probably took another step backwards from last year.

tayto lover

If we fail to win the FA Cup I will reconsider my opinion of Wenger.
That would just be a disaster.
As for 4th place I am fed up of fourth especially when that's all we get and have no chance of winning the CL.

ronjo

omega man wrote: »

Right this minute I just desperately want to see us win the FA cup and that's all. I'm getting a bit bored (or maybe exhausted) of the standard end of season battle for fourth for us to only go on the following season and exit in the 2nd round.

If qualifying for the CL is just about maximising profits for AFC then I'm losing interest, fast. Yes I want to see my team playing against the elite of Europe but not just to make up the numbers. I want to compete to win the CL but for now I just want a flipping trophy and a day/night of celebrations and to forget the last 8 years. Please please arsenal do not screw up the cup, that's all I ask this season. The CL can wait.

Raf32 wrote: »

Agreed! for the last few years i was all about getting the top 4 and that we had to be there but this season i really couldnt care. Obvious the higher we finish the better, but for a season that could have been so much 4th doesnt feel like much consolation. The cup is vital tbh, if we dont win it then I dont know where this team goes from here as they would have probably took another step backwards from last year.

Yes Yes Yes but we do have 4th pretty much sorted anyway.

Mr.Micro

tayto lover wrote: »

If we fail to win the FA Cup I will reconsider my opinion of Wenger.
That would just be a disaster.
As for 4th place I am fed up of fourth especially when that's all we get and have no chance of winning the CL.

There is no guarantee of 4th place, even at this stage....IMO, it all depends if we can manage to pick ourselves up in the next match and a few after that? We always appear to prove the tv pundits right....when they guffaw each year at our title aspirations. I can't see us taking anything against City.

greendom

purplepanda wrote: »

All the money made by selling the old stadium & profits on building 3000 homes, not to mention increased lucrative TV & sponsorship deals, added to highest priced tickets in world football, has been wasted by Wenger on lucrative contracts for injured & substandard / deadwood players & his own salary amongst others.

Ever since the stadium move the club has constantly been amongst the richest clubs in world football & amongst the most profitable. The stadium loan payments have easily been covered by increased home match revenues.

We are the 4th richest club in England, but the club & Wenger are constantly chanting their mantra that we have no money whilst lining their own pockets.

Every season Wenger says judge me in May, which May does he mean?
Next season will be the season when the club spends big, like every close season promised before. :mad:

Wenger is becoming a later day Brian Clough, yesterdays man harking back to the long gone glory days. Wenger will never win a League or European Cup as Arsenal manager ever again. His time is up.

Revenues were up over that period but much of that was swallowed up by paying back the loans for the stadium. Also in that period Chelsea and then City got the Russian and oil money and blew us out of the water. During this time AW has kept the team competitive.

Sorry for the history lesson. I'm sure you're aware of this but you make no acknowledgement of it in your post. Revenues are to jump considerably again and stadium is virtually paid for. This puts us in a position to hold onto our best and recruit top talent. Today hurts, it hurts a lot but Wenger can and will turn this around.

omega man

ronjo wrote: »

Yes Yes Yes but we do have 4th pretty much sorted anyway.

I thought that after beating spurs but I see Everton are 8 behind with a game in hand and we have to go to them yet. Not a done deal just yet.

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

Revenues were up over that period but much of that was swallowed up by paying back the loans for the stadium. Also in that period Chelsea and then City got the Russian and oil money and blew us out of the water. During this time AW has kept the team competitive.

Sorry for the history lesson. I'm sure you're aware of this but you make no acknowledgement of it in your post. Revenues are to jump considerably again and stadium is virtually paid for. This puts us in a position to hold onto our best and recruit top talent. Today hurts, it hurts a lot but Wenger can and will turn this around.

Not so sure about the bolded part.
Wenger is very poor tactically.

gnfnrhead

omega man wrote: »

I thought that after beating spurs but I see Everton are 8 behind with a game in hand and we have to go to them yet. Not a done deal just yet.

We beat them 4-1 only a couple of weeks ago. After that, it's all lower table sides. Newcastle are the only side anywhere close to the top few. The top four has been set in stone for months now. It was just a case of what order.

bad2dabone

greendom wrote: »

Today hurts, it hurts a lot but Wenger can and will turn this around.

And even if he can't and doesn't he's left the club in fantastic shape for the next guy to come along and do it.
For all his flaws he's a great man, and manager.
He deserves to be questioned - sure he does. Results like today and liverpool away have to raise difficult questions.
But he deserves our respect and thanks too - and thats why Purple Pandas posts irked me so much. I dont want to see him disrespected when fhe's forgotten more about football than most of us will ever know.

Courtesy Flush

Everton have a game in hand on Arsenal and are 8 points behind. Ye go to Everton in a few weeks, could be a massive game for both teams. Dont think 4th is done and dusted yet

bad2dabone

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

Everton have a game in hand on Arsenal and are 8 points behind. Ye go to Everton in a few weeks, could be a massive game for both teams. Dont think 4th is done and dusted yet

you're right but we do have some key players coming back over the next while and even if we lose to city and everton I'ld be confident of getting the points we need. we've 5 winnable games to close out the season.

jonneymendoza

wenger i think needs to go. too much chances. he probably should have been sacked halfway through his 1000th game. diabolical but my main worry is that the board may employ some amateur like moyes and we become worse off so i can see why some arsenal fans will never ask for wenger to be sacked.

Spanish Johnny

tayto lover wrote: »

Not so sure about the bolded part.
Wenger is very poor tactically.

I dont think you can say a man that has won 3 League titles, 4 FA Cups and went a season/49 games unbeaten is tactically poor. In fact I think its a ridiculous statement.

Like nearly every other manager there are some very bad days. United got many a 4/5 thrashing under Fergie too.

Bit much over reacting and calling him tactically poor.

Iv never saw such a reactionary bunch as us lately. Lose and its absolute meltdown.

If anyone looked at the fixtures at the start of the season they wouldnt have been gettin over excited in December/January. We are still not good enough. Its a process. Top 4 and a trophy was my best target at start of year and I still expect that.

We had an extrenely kind fixture list until December and I think it put expectation levels through the roof.

We are not a top 2 side yet and wont be until we get a top striker and def midfielder. I think we will get them and despite the hyperbole i think we improving a lot from the past few seasons.

I reckon Wenger won't re-sign this season.

Martinez to take over.

Top 4 battles guaranteed

Pudders

Ok let's try and focus on the positives from today.
1) hopefully Arsene now realises that he needs to spend significantly in the summer if we are to compete. A striker, a defensive midfielder and a full back. If we had got closer this year the weaknesses in the team may not have been so apparent. And let's not try and buy cheap unproven kids.
2) we can now put complete focus on winning a trophy. Win that fa cup.

tayto lover

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

I dont think you can say a man that has won 3 League titles, 4 FA Cups and went a season/49 games unbeaten is tactically poor. In fact I think its a ridiculous statement.

Like nearly every other manager there are some very bad days. United got many a 4/5 thrashing under Fergie too.

Bit much over reacting and calling him tactically poor.

Iv never saw such a reactionary bunch as us lately. Lose and its absolute meltdown.

If anyone looked at the fixtures at the start of the season they wouldnt have been gettin over excited in December/January. We are still not good enough. Its a process. Top 4 and a trophy was my best target at start of year and I still expect that.

We had an extrenely kind fixture list until December and I think it put expectation levels through the roof.

We are not a top 2 side yet and wont be until we get a top striker and def midfielder. I think we will get them and despite the hyperbole i think we improving a lot from the past few seasons.

I believe he is tactically poor against such attacking teams who thrashed us.
To set up as we did today was foolish. We handed Chelsea every initiative.
When Morinho came to The Emirates he set Chelsea up to get a point. They did. We should have been set up to do the same and maybe sneak a goal late on. You know what happened.

bad2dabone

Deleted User wrote: »

I reckon Wenger won't re-sign this season.

Martinez to take over.

Top 4 battles guaranteed

if arsene doesn't sign I'd be happy with Martinez as a replacement.

Soups123

There are genuine questions to be asked of Wenger and the board and people shouldn't get defensive if asked. I don't know if after all this time he still has it in him to compete st the top and if he signs another contract then I'll hope he can but I don't fear losing him.

Either way the man will forever have my respect and appreciation for giving up so much of his life to the club

purplepanda

greendom wrote: »

Revenues were up over that period but much of that was swallowed up by paying back the loans for the stadium. Also in that period Chelsea and then City got the Russian and oil money and blew us out of the water. During this time AW has kept the team competitive.

Sorry for the history lesson. I'm sure you're aware of this but you make no acknowledgement of it in your post. Revenues are to jump considerably again and stadium is virtually paid for. This puts us in a position to hold onto our best and recruit top talent. Today hurts, it hurts a lot but Wenger can and will turn this around.

Sounds like the type of press release made by the club every season since the move, a quick study of the clubs annual account shows the stadium debt is more than covered in the clubs cash reserves. As I mentioned the extra gate receipts for home games are much more than the annual stadium payments are.

Even with the annual stadium payment costs included the club is vastly more rich than it was at Highbury, not including better sponsorship, merchandising & TV deals.

The former & current board members who sold their shares for hundreds of millions of pounds profits since the last cup win in 2005 are all the proof you need of the substantial worth of the club. :rolleyes:

We have the club saying for years we can't compete in the transfer market yet the clubs shares are worth £15,000 plus each & the club is valued at £850 billion. But please pay for your annual ticket price increases because we are broke!!!

.jacksparrow.

Adding to the squad will be the least of our worries this summer.

Replacing a lot of players is the first.