Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 mod warning post #5144

Soups123

jonneymendoza wrote: »

you still dont get it. It is not about us being out of the title race, it is the manner in which we always falter in the exact same ****ing way for the past 9 years that you do not get at all!

Id take a 2:0 loss to chelsea with a performance that really stressed and troubled and matches chelsea over a piss poor sunday leage performance.

Wenger is tacicaly clueless. That is the damm point. There is even a article that someone posted here that you should read to actually understand!

Someone doesn't get it Jonny but I don't think it's me

cson

jonneymendoza wrote: »

How much money did Morinho have at Porto?

Again missing the point, Wenger is tactically clueless

Mourinho had a lot of money at Porto. They weren't and aren't paupers.

He's not tactically clueless, that's an absolutely absurd statement. He's tactically inflexible if you're going to level anything like that at him.

Alfred Borden

jonneymendoza wrote: »

How much money did Morinho have at Porto?

Again missing the point, Wenger is tactically clueless

same logic of no money can be used of having no money in 2004 so when we were unbeaten, same year Mourinho won the CL. Its easy to be tactically spot on when you have players in each position that cost 20+ million each. We have to make do 10 million players in a lot of positions and Wenger is overachieving with that imo.

Mickeroo

jonneymendoza wrote: »

How much money did Morinho have at Porto?

Again missing the point, Wenger is tactically clueless

Notice on the previous page how cson criticised both the manager and the team yet nobody has a problem with what they said?

cson

Sagna, Ozil, Walcott, Mertesacker, Ramsey and potentially Sczcsney would be in the top 3 in their positions in the league at the moment.

Using that as a base and allowing for two 'water carriers' that every team has, you're probably looking at 3 to 4 world class players to kick us on.

Anyway, I digress. There's the whole summer to discuss this ****e. What's important now is that we win the FA Cup and win as many as possible league games between now and the end of the season. I'd target the City game as being one where we go all out to win and show everyone that there is a bit of fight in us.

We gave the league a good run this year in fairness, led for a while but just didn't have the squad depth or x factor to sustain a challenge - how different it could have been had a certain Uruguayan got his wish back in July. Though whether we'd have signed Ozil after that is doubtful.

Its been a good season with plenty of positives and I think any of us would have taken finishing within ~6pts of the league winners and an FA Cup at the start of season. So lets get behind the team and hope that they can achieve that.

Alfred Borden

Sorry but i dont get why people think BFG is better than Kos? its not even close imo

Soups123

Raf32 wrote: »

Sorry but i dont get why people think BFG is better than Kos? its not even close imo

I think Kos is the better player but BFG is more important to the unit

Mr Blobby

cson wrote: »

Sagna, Ozil, Walcott, Mertesacker, Ramsey and potentially Sczcsney would be in the top 3 in their positions in the league at the moment.

Using that as a base and allowing for two 'water carriers' that every team has, you're probably looking at 3 to 4 world class players to kick us on.

I'd have Koscielny in there also.
Statistically he's been great (par a few brain farts)

Mickeroo

Raf32 wrote: »

Sorry but i dont get why people think BFG is better than Kos? its not even close imo

I think Kosc is more prone to errors than Mert but I wouldn't put much between them tbh. I think they're both very different types of defenders but work brilliantly as a unit (apart from the 3 obvious occasions).

Mr Blobby

Raf32 wrote: »

Sorry but i dont get why people think BFG is better than Kos? its not even close imo

BFG keeps us steady and calm.
He's not been far off Koscielny this season and is just as important.

cson

I really rate Koscielny but he always has an error in him in terms of giving away penalties. You just can't have that at the level we aspire to.

Thinking about my point earlier regarding the 3/4 world class players we'd need; we really missed a trick not getting someone in during January. Not for this season but looking at next; integration is so so key. Look at Spurs; £100m spent during the summer and they're an absolute shambles.

gosplan

jonneymendoza wrote: »

you still dont get it. It is not about us being out of the title race, it is the manner in which we always falter in the exact same ****ing way for the past 9 years that you do not get at all!

Id take a 2:0 loss to chelsea with a performance that really stressed and troubled and matches chelsea over a piss poor sunday leage performance.

Wenger is tacicaly clueless. That is the damm point. There is even a article that someone posted here that you should read to actually understand!

Wenger is not average

Wenger is not tactically clueless

It's been silly dropped points rather than losses to direct rivals that have ended our league campaigns in recent years. That's the difference between finishing 16 points behind and finishing 6 behind.

Everything you're saying us wrong or hugely exaggerated.

Mr Blobby

cson wrote: »

I really rate Koscielny but he always has an error in him in terms of giving away penalties. You just can't have that at the level we aspire to.

Thinking about my point earlier regarding the 3/4 world class players we'd need; we really missed a trick not getting someone in during January. Not for this season but looking at next; integration is so so key. Look at Spurs; £100m spent during the summer and they're an absolute shambles.

Well a new CF and Defensive mid is key.
I'd try and get Schneiderlin from Southampton and then just splurge on a big name Striker.

Alfred Borden

The defensive mid should be easy to get, loads out there that would be willing to come so wouldnt have to spend too much

jonneymendoza

gosplan wrote: »

Wenger is not average

Wenger is not tactically clueless

It's been silly dropped points rather than losses to direct rivals that have ended our league campaigns in recent years. That's the difference between finishing 16 points behind and finishing 6 behind.

Everything you're saying us wrong or hugely exaggerated.

yes he is tactically clueless. go read that LINK!

Alfred Borden

jonneymendoza wrote: »

yes he is tactically clueless. go read that LINK!

I find it incredibly insulting that you label him "clueless", a man who has managed for 30 years, won several trophies and widely renowned as one of the greatest managers of his generation.

Mr Blobby

jonneymendoza wrote: »

yes he is tactically clueless. go read that LINK!

You're the only clueless one here buddy.

jonneymendoza

Raf32 wrote: »

I find it incredibly insulting that you label him "clueless", a man who has managed for 30 years, won several trophies and widely renowned as one of the greatest managers of his generation.

won several trophies nearly 10 years ago! that is the point! He is no longer a great manager.

Soups123

jonneymendoza wrote: »

yes he is tactically clueless. go read that LINK!

Your proving link is just a link to another persons opinion. Some choose to read it and agree with all of it, some of it or none of it at all.

It doesn't validate any of your points and to call Wenger clueless and average removed anyone's ability to agree with points

Alfred Borden

jonneymendoza wrote: »

won several trophies nearly 10 years ago! that is the point! He is no longer a great manager.

Just because they were that long ago doesn't make him clueless. Cant you see what he has done for this club in the last few years? We have a brand new stadium, the best in the league and we still remained competitive without financial doping. No other manager would sacrifice his own personal success for a club and I say that confidently. It bugs me how people cant appreciate how lucky we really are to have him.

Mickeroo

Soups123 wrote: »

Your proving link is just a link to another persons opinion. Some choose to read it and agree with all of it, some of it or none of it at all.

Le-Grove's Pedro is a bit of a moron tbh.

Soups123

Mickeroo wrote: »

Le-Grove is a bit of a moron tbh.

Yep agree I find his articles are always to reactive to our current form

Alfred Borden

Wait until Liverpool and Tottenham move to their stadiums. If they dont have a big takeover, people will realize how great Wenger is when they struggle.

cson

Defensive midfielder is not really a position we play; we use moreso a pivoté type that acts as a bridge between the CBs and the rest of the midfield and an interceptor rather than a destroyer when we're on the back foot.

Someone in the mould of Javi Martinez is what we need.

Alfred Borden

Soups123 wrote: »

Yep agree I find his articles are always to reactive to our current form

Always wants to kick us when we are down. Him and Tim Payton are the worst for it.

Maire2009

Mickeroo wrote: »

Le-Grove's Pedro can be a bit of a moron tbh.

Ah he's alright - think he just fed too much into Geoff's way of thinking. Wonder have they gone back to going to games, heard they had given up their tickets. Haven't read Le Grove in years.

jonneymendoza

Raf32 wrote: »

Just because they were that long ago doesn't make him clueless. Cant you see what he has done for this club in the last few years? We have a brand new stadium, the best in the league and we still remained competitive without financial doping. No other manager would sacrifice his own personal success for a club and I say that confidently. It bugs me how people cant appreciate how lucky we really are to have him.

i am grateful too have him and he has done a good job off the pitch but on the pitch he hasnt and the results speak for itself.

he needs to change his ways on the pitch or move on and let someone else do the business on the pitch because he cant at present do the business anymore

Mickeroo

Maire2009 wrote: »

Ah he's alright - think he just fed too much into Geoff's way of thinking. Wonder have they gone back to going to games, heard they had given up their tickets. Haven't read Le Grove in years.

He's a bit too reactionary for my liking, but bad results tend to bring the worst out in a lot of people I suppose.

gosplan

jonneymendoza wrote: »

yes he is tactically clueless. go read that LINK!

Making a error in tactical judgement is not the same as being clueless.

Maire2009

Mickeroo wrote: »

He's a bit too reactionary for my liking, but bad results tend to bring the worst out in a lot of people I suppose.

He's been like that for years. Met him and Geoff years ago, and to be fair, I've them to thank for setting me up with my first Arsenal ticket so I am grateful to them - although we did have a falling out of sorts and I've not met them in donkeys.

gosplan

jonneymendoza wrote: »

i am grateful too have him and he has done a good job off the pitch but on the pitch he hasnt and the results speak for itself.

he needs to change his ways on the pitch or move on and let someone else do the business on the pitch because he cant at present do the business anymore

Think before you type!!!!!

greendom

jonneymendoza wrote: »

how many CL has wenger won?

How many has guadiola, morinho etc won? loads more then wenger

Maybe you should go and support a team who dominate their leagues financially then.

If Wenger leaves at the end of the season, that's his choice and we'll have to live with finding a replacement.

If he stays and thinks he can bring back the glory days I'll be behind him 100%

Alfred Borden

If I was wenger and i saw all these ungrateful fans i would take the barca job this summer or even psg, go dominate over there and win the champions league a couple of times because he definitely would.

niallo27

Raf32 wrote: »

If I was wenger and i saw all these ungrateful fans i would take the barca job this summer or even psg, go dominate over there and win the champions league a couple of times because he definitely would.

Or maybe he might think a fresh start is best for both parties. Would barca go for him. I think they would want a younger manager.

Alfred Borden

niallo27 wrote: »

Or maybe he might think a fresh start is best for both parties. Would barca go for him. I think they would want a younger manager.

Wanted him numerous times according to the media. Plays their type of football and could give it over after 2 or 3 years to someone younger. Even PSG just to stick it to them Wenger outs.

Soups123

I have my concerns on Arsene a bit just stems from the fact he is there so long sometimes you can think to yourself that you are fully motivated and doing all the right things when you may not. If he stays on then we back him.

I do think though that if he went on to a Barcelona/PSG he would be a huge success and might have a little more hunger in his belly than he would with us.

I could be wrong, I would fear more mediocrity than I would fear change in any sport I am involved in

Alfred Borden

Press conference cancelled tomorrow, u21 game moved to behind closed doors and no social media interaction from anyone bar yaya since the match, something going on?

Soups123

niallo27 wrote: »

Or maybe he might think a fresh start is best for both parties. Would barca go for him. I think they would want a younger manager.

Barca would take him in a heart beat

Soups123

Raf32 wrote: »

Press conference cancelled tomorrow, u21 game moved to behind closed doors and no social media interaction from anyone bar yaya since the match, something going on?

A good fcukin rollicking hopefully and a lot of thinking

purplepanda

Raf32 wrote: »

If I was wenger and i saw all these ungrateful fans i would take the barca job this summer or even psg, go dominate over there and win the champions league a couple of times because he definitely would.

10 years ago Wenger would have been in the running for the top European club managers jobs, and enquiries obviously would have been made to attract him.

I don't see evidence of this happening over the last few years, Wenger's obvious reluctance to spend big money in the transfer market would also be a factor & his comments on financial doping / fair play wouldn't endear him to an oligarch / sheikh owner.

Top European managers nowadays have to spend big in the transfer market, Wenger would not suddenly change overnight. Football has changed & Wenger has failed to adapt to the new reality.

Bridge93

I'm curious as to what people think went wrong around 04/05. How did Wenger or whoever it was over the next few years manage to take apart one of the greatest club teams seen in England to the point where they've won nothing for 9 years?

you have to wonder if he's a bit of a victim of circumstance, He was the unlucky manager who was in charge when the Emirates was built meaning less money being pumped into the team and more into the debt owed (obviously financially the emirates is a positive long term.) Having said that there has been money available recently and he hasn't spent it even though it appears clear to go anywhere in football these days you must spend big.
To those saying he's past it, tactically inept or whatever, he doesn't have to prove himself to anyone. Everyone gets it wrong at times and the players not being good enough doesn't help. Mind you he is getting it wrong increasingly often against rivals.

Also I wonder what happened to Podolski. the guy was a 100 cap German international before arriving and since has never been able to cement a place in a no more than decent European club side. Maybe Germany just had a vacancy up front bit like Spain recently because he never really flourished at a big club only Cologne.

Alfred Borden

purplepanda wrote: »

10 years ago Wenger would have been in the running for the top European club managers jobs, and enquiries obviously would have been made to attract him.

I don't see evidence of this happening over the last few years, Wenger's obvious reluctance to spend big money in the transfer market would also be a factor & his comments on financial doping / fair play wouldn't endear him to an oligarch / sheikh owner.

Top European managers nowadays have to spend big in the transfer market, Wenger would not suddenly change overnight. Football has changed & Wenger has failed to adapt to the new reality.

PSG were mad after him last summer in fairness. Its not his reluctance to spend thats the problem. Its the board, he over analyses every player before he spends on them because we dont have the luxury of throwing money at players and if they dont work out forget about them. We arent a City or a Chelsea. Thats why he dithers over every deal and i know we all get annoyed with him and throw names around but 90% of the names we throw around have all flopped. Given no constraints like he wouldnt have at PSG or Barca, he would reestablish himself as the best manager in football imo.

gnfnrhead

purplepanda wrote: »

10 years ago Wenger would have been in the running for the top European club managers jobs, and enquiries obviously would have been made to attract him.

I don't see evidence of this happening over the last few years, Wenger's obvious reluctance to spend big money in the transfer market would also be a factor & his comments on financial doping / fair play wouldn't endear him to an oligarch / sheikh owner.

Top European managers nowadays have to spend big in the transfer market, Wenger would not suddenly change overnight. Football has changed & Wenger has failed to adapt to the new reality.

Perhaps they know he wouldnt be looking to leave so felt it was pointless?

Bridge93 wrote: »

I'm curious as to what people think went wrong around 04/05. How did Wenger or whoever it was over the next few years manage to take apart one of the greatest club teams seen in England to the point where they've won nothing for 9 years?

Basically, Chelsea changed the game after we committed to the stadium.

We made the move to the Emirates, putting us under huge financial pressure. At the time, we would have been still able to compete. Then Chelsea and later City got huge financial backing meaning the bar had been raised but we werent able to make the step up due to the stadium debt. Last summer was really the first time we could and we ended up having our best title challenge in many years. Had Chelsea and City not gotten the financial backing they did, we would have been there or thereabouts every year.

Mr.Micro

Raf32 wrote: »

If I was wenger and i saw all these ungrateful fans i would take the barca job this summer or even psg, go dominate over there and win the champions league a couple of times because he definitely would.

In fairness to the fans....they are disappointed. We were looking so good this year, until the injuries etc. we go from a draw in the last game with Chelsea to a humiliating 6-0 drubbing. Tactics were to blame here I a afraid. A draw would have been a good result with Chelsea.

I think Wenger is a great manager but is out of date to many. I have confidence in him still, but if all we want is a safe pair of hands that is fine, but spending on enough quality players is always going yo be an issue.

Alfred Borden

would wanna keep an eye of spurs and everton now

purplepanda

Raf32 wrote: »

PSG were mad after him last summer in fairness. Its not his reluctance to spend thats the problem. Its the board, he over analyses every player before he spends on them because we dont have the luxury of throwing money at players and if they dont work out forget about them. We arent a City or a Chelsea. Thats why he dithers over every deal and i know we all get annoyed with him and throw names around but 90% of the names we throw around have all flopped. Given no constraints like he wouldnt have at PSG or Barca, he would reestablish himself as the best manager in football imo.

It's the board or it's Wenger, both blaming each other with the constant feed of contrasting media stories, whilst the fans are paying through the nose for a new stadium that was promised to compete with Europe's elite.

As for the financial issue, we have 2 of the richest men in the world as major shareholders, plus former major shareholders & owners have made hundreds
of millions from share dealings. :rolleyes:

Yet the club is broke :eek:

Wenger & the board is a massive confidence trick, they use each other to deflect from their own personal failings. :mad:

jonneymendoza

Raf32 wrote: »

If I was wenger and i saw all these ungrateful fans i would take the barca job this summer or even psg, go dominate over there and win the champions league a couple of times because he definitely would.

ungrateful?

So he had a great season with arsenal 10 years ago and now it seems he is god and we cannot question the almighty god no matter how many poor decisions he does on and off the pitch?

redicolous.

I bet you would still post the above 10 years later when we go 20 years with the same old crap from him

Bridge93

I'd wait and see how the FA cup goes. If Arsenal manage to f**ck up the FA cup given the teams still in it then I think there'd be reason to move on. That would be reminiscent of the League Cup loss to Birmingham.

omega man

Raf32 wrote: »

would wanna keep an eye of spurs and everton now

Absolutely. Swansea is our next "must win" game but sadly not for our title aspirations, for top 4 security.

WoollyRedHat

Is it fair to say that the BFG/ Kos parternship isn't ideal for games like Liverpool/Chelsea etc. and maybe Verm should partner Kos for Sat?

Was it Kos and Verm that were the older partnership before he got dropped or was it him and Mert?

Also reading on another Arsenal forum and someone suggested that getting in a sports psychologist might be of help, what would people think about this?

One things for sure, these drubbings have to stop and we have to go back to the drawing board, the proximity of the Liverpool and Chelsea heavy defeats must be seriously hurting morale.

Hopefully a lot of inward thinking and analysis is done to ensure such things don't happen again. Hopefully as well we do a serious and outside party review on what is causing so many injuries and recurring ones that allow Arsenal to be top of the injury table for the last few seasonswhich seriously hampers continuity and cohesion within the squad.

If we still win the FA Cup, and get top four, I think fans won't be so glum come the end. Also people handing Pool/City and Chelsea straight victories bar the games they have left against each other are being quite optimistic, considering especially Chelsea and City's slip ups against mid to lower table teams, which gave us wider berth and gave us some glimmer of hope when we ourselves had slipped up.

Calling Mourinho a tactical genius who can do no wrong is also misguided when they fall to the likes of Villa and drop points against West Ham who shut them out.

All we can do is focus on where we went wrong and pick ourselves up and try again. Upwards and onwards. If we win the cup, the psychological boost it will give us will be massive.