Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 mod warning post #5144

shano_88

shano_88 wrote: »

Ray Parlour was on Off the Ball earlier. Had some great stories about Wengers early years and the drinking culture in English football.

You will be able to listen back on it later on. Definetly worth a listen.

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/listen_back/launch

Its up now.

EuropeanSon

tayto lover wrote: »

Its because their defenders are rubbish.

And their midfielders.

viper006

enfant terrible wrote: »

Think that's an easy excuse for fans, keep buying new players until our problems are sorted.

Defending is more than the back four, look at the difference Pulis made to Palace defensively since he took over.

He got them organized and defending as a unit.

To be fair, We have a defensive injury crisis for the last 5-6 weeks now with our starting back four of johnson, enrique, sakho and Agger all injured. On top of that Lucas and allen out injured as well sowe have struggled bigtime as the starting 11 has picked itself through lack of options. SAS have been getting us outta of trouble alot.

I was praying agger would be back vs arsenal at the weekend as kolo's performance vs WBA was the worst ive seen from a defender for a long long time. I think it will going to very hard for liverpool to get anything from game, SAS will need to be in beast mode.

greendom

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

It's great when it comes off, but trying to do that everytime is not gonna work. It's OK against teams like Norwich who stand-off and admire the skill but against quick pressing teams it won't work. That's one thing I don't like about Giroud he tries to flick fecking every thing.

Giroud's assist stats this season are impressive. He's ahead of the likes of Hazard, Coutinho and Yaya Toure. Vive le flick !!

Maire2009

greendom wrote: »

Giroud's assist stats this season are impressive. He's ahead of the likes of Hazard, Coutinho and Yaya Toure. Vive le flick !!

That'll be a banner in the Emirates by next week

enfant terrible

Points for the last 38 games

Arsenal 90 points
Chelsea 82
Man City 79
Spurs 74
Liverpool 73
United 70
Everton 67

Gringo180

shano_88 wrote: »

Its up now.

Thanks for that. Some very funny stories a must listen for all Arsenal fans. Parlour comes across as a real top bloke, real down to earth.

niallo27

Godge wrote: »

Is that really true? do you have statistics to back this up?



Don't think it is the exception.



Would it really be that unusual? We now have Chelsea's two wins with Drogba at 16 and 10 and Arsenal in 1998 with Bergkamp on 16. A quick look at a few of Utd.'s title wins shows:

In 1999, Yorke had 18 league goals and Cole 17 for Utd.
In 2000, Yorke managed to get up to 20 league goals with the rest spead round again.
In 2001, Teddy Sheringham had 15.
In 2007, Ronaldo had 17.

Hardly domination by one striker in those four years.

So without looking too hard, we now have at least seven of the last 15 years where the goals were shared around in the title-winning team (does someone else want to check the rest?) which kind of makes the assertion that every title-winning team has one stand-out striker look a bit silly. Many of them actually share the goals around in the same way that the current team do.

In fact, if you are to look at Arsenal's recent history, it is the seasons where Van Persie or Henry scored lots of goals and the rest of the squad contributed little that were least successful.

To me, it would seem that scoring goals is a necessary component of a title-winning team but as Utd. in particular have shown over the years, having those goals coming from a variety of sources (and therefore making you more difficult to defend against even by the better teams) is the surest way to title success. Liverpool have come unstuck a number of times this season when good defences have kept out Suarez and they have failed to conjure up a goal from somewhere else.

In an Arsenal context, think of the games over the last few seasons where Van Perise or previously Adebayor and Henry had an off-day and we couldn't find a goal from anywhere else.

I think you will agree there has been a shift from defensive football to attacking football in the last few years. In 7 of the last 8 years the champions top scorer has 20 goals or more. I have to check this on my phone so I could be wrong. I think giroud will be lucky to hit 15.

EuropeanSon

niallo27 wrote: »

I think you will agree there has been a shift from defensive football to attacking football in the last few years. In 7 of the last 8 years the champions top scorer has 20 goals or more. I have to check this on my phone so I could be wrong. I think giroud will be lucky to hit 15.

Defensive football to attacking football? Really?
I would never have thought that at all. Chelsea are still a pretty defensive team. Arsenal haven't really been under Wenger, but this year we're more defensively minded than we have been in years, and it's paying dividends. City are an exception, but then they've bought themselves all the goals they could buy, so can afford to be more attacking.

niallo27

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Defensive football to attacking football? Really?
I would never have thought that at all. Chelsea are still a pretty defensive team. Arsenal haven't really been under Wenger, but this year we're more defensively minded than we have been in years, and it's paying dividends. City are an exception, but then they've bought themselves all the goals they could buy, so can afford to be more attacking.

Yes there has been an increase in the adverage goals per game for the last few seasons. There are more goals been scored.

EuropeanSon

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes there has been an increase in the adverage goals per game for the last few seasons. There are more goals been scored.

More goals being scored is not necessarily the same as more attacking football. More goals will be scored when there are more hammerings, which will occur when the strength of teams is more uneven (eg. When City play Norwich). The increased concentration of the best players in feet teams means more uneven games, with higher scorelines.

Not saying that's necessarily the case, but certainly a stronger argument than "more goals are scored" is needed IMO.

niallo27

EuropeanSon wrote: »

More goals being scored is not necessarily the same as more attacking football. More goals will be scored when there are more hammerings, which will occur when the strength of teams is more uneven (eg. When City play Norwich). The increased concentration of the best players in feet teams means more uneven games, with higher scorelines.

Not saying that's necessarily the case, but certainly a stronger argument than "more goals are scored" is needed IMO.

Well my main point is I don't think arsenal will win the league without a 20 goal a year striker.

Oranage2

murpho999 wrote: »

Not sure if this has been posted already but I thought it was an interesting comparison of this year to last.

Think it's fair to say that LFC are most improved team so far.

Looking at this table we've made massive progress, but it'll not count for much if we don't win a trophy at the end of the season.

2ndcoming

Going by that table we've made the biggest progress, a 17 point gain to Liverpool's 12.

Man U's 19 point loss shows just how far and quickly they've fallen.

Oranage2

also i should be doing something important but Ive done this instead make of it as you will.

So the games left with last seasons results:


Liverpool v Arsenal 0-2 w
Arsenal v Man Utd 1-1 d
Arsenal v Sunderland 0-0 d
Stoke v Arsenal 0-0 d
Arsenal v Swansea 0-2 l
Spurs v Arsenal 2-1 l
Chelsea v Arsenal 2-1 l
Arsenal v Man City 0-2 l
Everton v Arsenal 1-1 d
Arsenal v West Ham 5-1 w
Hull v Arsenal n/a
Arsenal v Newcastle 7-3 w
Arsenal v West Brom 2-0 w
Norwich v Arsenal 1-0 l

16 points and an N/A

Though last seasons we were shocking till about March.

ronjo

niallo27 wrote: »

Well my main point is I don't think arsenal will win the league without a 20 goal a year striker.

But looking at the table there are 3 teams that can win it and you certainly cant write 2 of them off two thirds of the way through the season because they probably wont have a striker score 20 goals..... Thats nonsense at this stage.

CatInABox

Press conference stuff.

Team news:
Wilshere might be back for Liverpool
Arteta will be alright

Arsene on Chelsea:
They are in there. We focus on our results and do not listen too much to what people say

Arsene on Giroud:
We never wanted to replace Giroud and I'm not surprised he is doing well this season

Pepe LeFrits

I also think we lack the firepower to win the league. It'll tell in the end.

Enjoying the ride though.

Oranage2

CatInABox wrote: »

Press conference stuff.

Team news:
Wilshere might be back for Liverpool
Arteta will be alright

Arsene on Chelsea:
They are in there. We focus on our results and do not listen too much to what people say

Arsene on Giroud:
We never wanted to replace Giroud and I'm not surprised he is doing well this season

Didn't we tr y buy higuin and Suarez?

CatInABox

Oranage2 wrote: »

Didn't we tr y buy higuin and Suarez?

Yeah, but they were only ever going to sit on the bench, kind of like a super sub......

GeorgeBailey

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I also think we lack the firepower to win the league. It'll tell in the end.

Enjoying the ride though.

Agreed on both points. This season has been a hell of a lot more enjoyable than the previous 2.

ronjo

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Agreed on both points. This season has been a hell of a lot more enjoyable than the previous 2.

Best at this stage since 2007/08.

Hopefully at the end of the season it will be the best ever
but I would take the best since the invincibles

Godge

niallo27 wrote: »

I think you will agree there has been a shift from defensive football to attacking football in the last few years. In 7 of the last 8 years the champions top scorer has 20 goals or more. I have to check this on my phone so I could be wrong. I think giroud will be lucky to hit 15.

niallo27 wrote: »

Well my main point is I don't think arsenal will win the league without a 20 goal a year striker.

I really think you are not grasping the essential information.

In the last ten seasons, on five occasions the top league scorer did not come from the champions. On four occasions it did. On the tenth, it was shared. Suarez is likely to make it only 4 out of 11 where the champions had the leading goal-scorer.

It is therefore not axiomatic that you need a top scorer to win the league. In fact, the evidence clearly suggests the opposite and that you need a number of strikers and midfielders scoring to win the league. On that point, it is only February and Arsenal already have 17 different scorers in all competitions.

This would clearly indicate that if this continues, Arsenal have the potential to fall into the category of winning the Premiership without having the leading scorer and interestingly so do Chelsea and Manchester City.

It is Liverpool who look like having the leading goal-scorer. In this way they are becoming very much the new "old-Arsenal". On 4 occasions in the last 12 years, Arsenal had the leading goal-scorer but did not win the league. Van Persie would have done it on two other occasions only for injury. In recent years, this has meant Arsenal have scrapped for fourth which is where Liverpool are now.

Over the last season and a half, Arsenal have managed to spread the goal threat around the team turning them from fourth-place scrappers to title challengers. It may not win us the title this year but it is a much better place to be in than relying on one person scoring 20 or more goals to put us in a place where we can challenge for fourth place.

Skylinehead

niallo27 wrote: »

Well my main point is I don't think arsenal will win the league without a 20 goal a year striker.

I'm sorry but that's crap. You've been proven wrong on 7/15 seasons and you're still peddling this nonsense. Chelsea don't have a 20 goal a season striker, and they have as much a chance at winning the league as anyone.

CatInABox

Good news for anyone with transport/accommodation booked for the Man United game, it looks like it will be going ahead regardless of the Tube strike.

The mirror has it here.

I would however, recommend getting to the area earlier than usual, traffic is meant to be mental, even buses are affected.

artvandelay48

Gringo180 wrote: »

Thanks for that. Some very funny stories a must listen for all Arsenal fans. Parlour comes across as a real top bloke, real down to earth.

"How're we going to win the league? We're all drunk and they're smoking!"

Class!

keano_afc

Oranage2 wrote: »

Didn't we tr y buy higuin and Suarez?

Wouldnt pay the money.

niallo27

Skylinehead wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's crap. You've been proven wrong on 7/15 seasons and you're still peddling this nonsense. Chelsea don't have a 20 goal a season striker, and they have as much a chance at winning the league as anyone.

You seemed to have ignored the post where I said that 7 out of the last 8 seasons the champions had a plus 20 goal striker. I'm not saying arsenal can't win the league I'm just saying it's unlikely with the lack of firepower.

niallo27

Godge wrote: »

I really think you are not grasping the essential information.

In the last ten seasons, on five occasions the top league scorer did not come from the champions. On four occasions it did. On the tenth, it was shared. Suarez is likely to make it only 4 out of 11 where the champions had the leading goal-scorer.

It is therefore not axiomatic that you need a top scorer to win the league. In fact, the evidence clearly suggests the opposite and that you need a number of strikers and midfielders scoring to win the league. On that point, it is only February and Arsenal already have 17 different scorers in all competitions.

This would clearly indicate that if this continues, Arsenal have the potential to fall into the category of winning the Premiership without having the leading scorer and interestingly so do Chelsea and Manchester City.

It is Liverpool who look like having the leading goal-scorer. In this way they are becoming very much the new "old-Arsenal". On 4 occasions in the last 12 years, Arsenal had the leading goal-scorer but did not win the league. Van Persie would have done it on two other occasions only for injury. In recent years, this has meant Arsenal have scrapped for fourth which is where Liverpool are now.

Over the last season and a half, Arsenal have managed to spread the goal threat around the team turning them from fourth-place scrappers to title challengers. It may not win us the title this year but it is a much better place to be in than relying on one person scoring 20 or more goals to put us in a place where we can challenge for fourth place.

I never mentioned that you need to have the leagues top scorer to win the league. It's great Arsenal spread the goal scoring. I'm not having a dog at you lot, you would nearly be the pick of the three to win it as I have a lot of time for wenger.

greendom

niallo27 wrote: »

You seemed to have ignored the post where I said that 7 out of the last 8 seasons the champions had a plus 20 goal striker. I'm not saying arsenal can't win the league I'm just saying it's unlikely with the lack of firepower.

What lack of fire power ? 47 goals is perfectly respectable. I thought the received wisdom was that defences won leagues?

Skylinehead

niallo27 wrote: »

You seemed to have ignored the post where I said that 7 out of the last 8 seasons the champions had a plus 20 goal striker. I'm not saying arsenal can't win the league I'm just saying it's unlikely with the lack of firepower.

So by that logic, Chelsea are unlikely to win the league either?

Godge

niallo27 wrote: »

You seemed to have ignored the post where I said that 7 out of the last 8 seasons the champions had a plus 20 goal striker. I'm not saying arsenal can't win the league I'm just saying it's unlikely with the lack of firepower.

niallo27 wrote: »

I never mentioned that you need to have the leagues top scorer to win the league. It's great Arsenal spread the goal scoring. I'm not having a dog at you lot, you would nearly be the pick of the three to win it as I have a lot of time for wenger.

You have missed the point completely.

What the evidence shows is that spreading around your goalscorers is the surest way to victory in the Premier League. If you are scoring 80+ goals, one of those is likely to go over 20. However, he is still only accounting for 25% of your goals.

If you have scored 100 goals with 5 players getting to 15 goals each and the other 25 goals spread around 6 or 7 players, you are in a title-challenging place at the very least.

Scoring 80 goals with two players getting 70% of those goals is a recipe for fourth place.

Looking at the leading league goalscorers, if Aguero stays injured, it is possible that neither of top three will end up with a striker reaching 20 goals. What does that say for your theory?

mike65

Godge wrote: »

You have missed the point completely.

What the evidence shows is that spreading around your goalscorers is the surest way to victory in the Premier League. If you are scoring 80+ goals, one of those is likely to go over 20. However, he is still only accounting for 25% of your goals.

If you have scored 100 goals with 5 players getting to 15 goals each and the other 25 goals spread around 6 or 7 players, you are in a title-challenging place at the very least.

Scoring 80 goals with two players getting 70% of those goals is a recipe for fourth place.

Looking at the leading league goalscorers, if Aguero stays injured, it is possible that neither of top three will end up with a striker reaching 20 goals. What does that say for your theory?

No it isn't - not winning enough games to finish any higher and winning enough to not finish any lower is the recipe for finishing 4th place.

Liverpool are on target to have the top two goal scorers (or two of top three) in the league but they wont win it as they are conceding too many on a per game basis (just 7 clean sheets this season). Winning the league has little to do with the ultimate number of goals scored or even conceded its about the number of games won.

ronjo

mike65 wrote: »

No it isn't - not winning enough games to finish any higher and winning enough to not finish any lower is the recipe for finishing 4th place.

Liverpool are on target to have the top two goal scorers (or two of top three) in the league but they wont win it as they are conceding too many on a per game basis (just 7 clean sheets this season). Winning the league has little to do with the ultimate number of goals scored or even conceded its about the number of games won.

Thats it bottom line.

The obvious advantage with spreading the goals is that you are not as susceptible to injury.
Look at us this year..... Ramsey scoring for fun in early part, then Walcott came in and scored a few...... Now Cazorla has taken over the mantle.
All with Giroud chipping in.

AdamD

I really hope we thrash them on Saturday just to see the sheer amount of bitterness in a certain Liverpool fan's posts come back to bite him in the ass, again.

ronjo

AdamD wrote: »

I really hope we thrash them on Saturday just to see the sheer amount of bitterness in a certain Liverpool fan's posts come back to bite him in the ass, again.

I think I know who you mean and he was getting a childish dig in on their thread only a few minutes ago...

Most of them are sound though.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

ronjo wrote: »

I think I know who you mean and he was getting a childish dig in on their thread only a few minutes ago...

Most of them are sound though.

That guy is always at it, sad.

bad2dabone

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

That guy is always at it, sad.

i love his posts, hes so bitter and smalltime.

CatInABox

Just got my ticket for the Pool in the FA cup, now to change my flights so I can go to it!

Liverpool and Bayern in the space of four days, excellent!

Godge

mike65 wrote: »

No it isn't - not winning enough games to finish any higher and winning enough to not finish any lower is the recipe for finishing 4th place.

Liverpool are on target to have the top two goal scorers (or two of top three) in the league but they wont win it as they are conceding too many on a per game basis (just 7 clean sheets this season). Winning the league has little to do with the ultimate number of goals scored or even conceded its about the number of games won.

Obviously, not winning enough games is the reason why you only finish fourth or fifth or whereever below first.

However, this discussion has started around a pronouncement by one poster that Arsenal have no chance of winning the League because they don't have a goalscorer who will reach 20 goals. This line of argument has been maintained despite it being pointed out to him that if Aguero's injury is more serious than expected none of the top three will have a striker reach 20 goals. As such the presence of possible two 20-goal scorers in Liverpool's fourth place ambitions comes into the discussion.

So really, we accept that it comes down to winning enough games but we are discussing what are the reasons behind winning enough games and not winning enough games. Being reliant on one or two players who score 20 goals but who may become injured or lose form or be held scoreless in some games is a recipe for a ceiling of fourth place. No matter how good your top player is, he can only help you reach fourth or fifth place in the Premiership. Examples being Bale last season, Van Persie for Arsenal the season before and Henry in a couple of seasons. Suarez and Liverpool are this season's can't go any higher.

There are only a few occasions where the outstanding form of one player backed up by some steady support and some very weak links has resulted in a trophy win - Maradona and Argentina in the World Cup in 1986 being one -and certainly none in relation to a league.

ronjo wrote: »

The obvious advantage with spreading the goals is that you are not as susceptible to injury.
Look at us this year..... Ramsey scoring for fun in early part, then Walcott came in and scored a few...... Now Cazorla has taken over the mantle.
All with Giroud chipping in.

Exactly, or loss of form.

I think we can leave this debate now. You don't need a 20-goal striker to win the league.

ronjo

Godge wrote: »

There are only a few occasions where the outstanding form of one player backed up by some steady support and some very weak links has resulted in a trophy win - Maradona and Argentina in the World Cup in 1986 being one -and certainly none in relation to a league.

Perhaps the same chap for Napoli? but thats about it I am sure.

niallo27

Skylinehead wrote: »

So by that logic, Chelsea are unlikely to win the league either?

Well that's what Jose thinks. Would you not agree if they had a van Persie or a Suarez up front they would be top.

greendom

niallo27 wrote: »

Well that's what Jose thinks. Would you not agree if they had a van Persie or a Suarez up front they would be top.

And with Chelsea's midfield and defence, Liverpool would have had the league sewn up weeks ago

Marty McFly

niallo27 wrote: »

Well that's what Jose thinks. Would you not agree if they had a van Persie or a Suarez up front they would be top.

:pac: you mean you actually think Jose meant that when he said it? The man should be in the dictionary right beside the word shiite talk.

Mickeroo

niallo27 wrote: »

Well that's what Jose thinks. Would you not agree if they had a van Persie or a Suarez up front they would be top.

Maybe Arsenal would be top if they had one too....oh wait

smileyj1987

niallo27 wrote: »

Well that's what Jose thinks. Would you not agree if they had a van Persie or a Suarez up front they would be top.

I wouldn't even bother listening to him at all . The man moans when a team parks the bus against him but when he does it " it's tactics " . So if you ask me his opinion really isn't worth mentioning .

Alfred Borden

Does anyone else think Liverpool have the whole Spurs from last season going on? dependent on one player, making a few more look decent. If they dont get top 4 they are in massive trouble imo he will be gone and the rest of the team is average bar Sturridge.

Skylinehead

niallo27 wrote: »

Well that's what Jose thinks. Would you not agree if they had a van Persie or a Suarez up front they would be top.

What Jose says? If that's your argument then we might as well stop now. They might well be top with a better striker, but the fact remains that they're only 3 points off the top with lesser strikers. There's absolutely no reason to discount them based on that.

Mr Blobby

Raf32 wrote: »

Does anyone else think Liverpool have the whole Spurs from last season going on? dependent on one player, making a few more look decent. If they dont get top 4 they are in massive trouble imo he will be gone and the rest of the team is average bar Sturridge.

Na...

Unlike Spurs they have other players to help them get top 4.
Bale dragged spurs up the table.. And while its true Suarez has done the same. Sturridge,Henderson and Sakho have been a big help.

Also they have a competent manager.

niallo27

We had an arsenal supporter on the previous page saying lack of firepower may cost you and he got a few thanks and people agreed with him. I say the same thing and I'm put down straight away. I think not having a top striker will cost you. That's just my opinion.