Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 mod warning post #5144

dvemail

dvemail wrote: »

I think what annoys people the most is that we just don't turn up against the bigger teams.
Poor against Utd, City, Chelsea and again today. Just when we start to get a good feeling about our team they just arse about in these types of matches.

Yeah id agree im a believer its a bit more about arrogance then lack of belief. There is a worrying amount of hospital passes, lads not even looking up before passing, no movement off the ball, too static with Arsenal. I think today was always going to happen if we were to be sloppy with our passing in the final third.

Dont forget a few teams like Cardiff and Southampton have troubled us when we lose the ball at the Emirates. Its just more noticeable when world class players like Suarez are pulling the strings ripping defences asunder.

We still have a chance because City unbelievably and fortunately have dropped 5 points the last two games. Chelsea are coming good though. The wily ol fox could have been 6 points behind after monday night and now they sit on top and will be hard to stop. They wont collapse at Anfield like we did today as he builds from the back. If Hazard for example was to lose a ball he'd chase back like a flash to retrieve it.

We've had a blip but NOW is the time to actually learn from it and cop the fúck on. Sharper quicker passing and more purpose to our attack. He has to start Pod, Rosicky and Gibbs on Wednesday night.

The clusterfúck from Wenger with Kallstrom in the transfer window is unforgivable though in my opinion. Someone really really dropped the ball there. We needed him to come in immediately and instead he is keeping Ramsey, Walcott and Diaby company for 6 weeks if not more.


Congrats to Liverpool today. They punished our mistakes and put us well and truly to the sword and Rodgers has done a fine job there. I only hope they can do us a favour and repeat the dose when Chelsea and City are in town.

keano_afc

Norwich have done us a massive favour. United game is huge now. No excuses. No standing off and showing respect. No not turning up until the second half. No half arsed rubbish. Start like we mean to win the game.

Mr Blobby

RasTa wrote: »

Might be too raw but what are your thoughts on Ozil so far? I haven't watched every Arsenal game but in the big ones he has gone missing.

Ozil needs a competent Striker playing ahead of him. Giroud is too slow so he can't play those long killer passes like he did for Ronaldo.

Spanish Johnny

Mr Blobby wrote: »

Ozil needs a competent Striker playing ahead of him. Giroud is too slow so he can't play those long killer passes like he did for Ronaldo.

We really really need to stop making excuses for Ozil.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

After a result like that its easy to feel devastated lads.

Why can we not perform against a Top 4 side at their place?
WE learned nothing at all from the defeats at City and United.
We didn't look to be at the races from the start again today.
Is it a mental block or do we just not prepare psychologically for these games?
What the fcuk do they do in training or in their pre-match talk?
Some of our players today looked as if they wouldn't cope in the League of Ireland.
11 goals conceded in two away games :mad:
That is just not good enough.

It will take a major effort to get those lads ready for United on Wednesday.
That game is our seasonal decider. A defeat and we are on a very slippy slope.

I dont think its psychological tbh. You even agreed with me a while back that the starting is far too slow and static. I hope today is our 'Milan 2011' of 2014 where we got spanked out in the San Siro before going on a run.

Mr Blobby

Mr Blobby wrote: »

Ozil needs a competent Striker playing ahead of him. Giroud is too slow so he can't play those long killer passes like he did for Ronaldo.

Honest as the day as long is Giroud but in no way a predator. Brilliant hold up play but a lovely ball threaded to him today and he couldnt turn and shoot

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont think its psychological tbh. You even agreed with me a while back that the starting is far too slow and static. I hope today is our 'Milan 2011' of 2014 where we got spanked out in the San Siro before going on a run.

I'm beginning to wonder how we take the field seemingly asleep though.
Its not just today, it happens quite regularly.
Today we really got punished for it.
What do we do in our team talk before taking the field though?
Where are the leaders who shout instructions and keep players focused on their jobs?

Spanish Johnny

Deleted User wrote: »

Honest as the day as long is Giroud but in no way a predator. Brilliant hold up play but a lovely ball threaded to him today and he couldnt turn and shoot

I agree with that. Walcott would have been a great option today like v Spurs. Keeps defenders honest.

But again Giroud is no excuse for Ozil's general play, attitude, etc.

He's regarded as Germany's best player and he often had Mario Gomez as the lone striker.

Mr Blobby

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

We really really need to stop making excuses for Ozil.

Its not on excuse though... Ozil doesn't have a good enough striker ahead of him.

You stick a fast Striker ahead of him and he'll shine. Giroud plays like he's got stone boots on.
Imo Ozil looked best when Walcott was playing.

tayto lover

Just got this message PM'd to me. Dont know why.

heidiklum
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Heading for 10 years without a trophy ...bottlers

I replied that I was in Anfield in 1989. Bottlers :D

Marty McFly

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

We really really need to stop making excuses for Ozil.

It's kinda true though, we were brilliant at quick pacy counter attacks for years.

Fabregas always had runners off the ball to pick from and intelligent players around him.

Giroud up top has no pace and not the most mobile just slows everything down.

Spanish Johnny

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

I agree with that. Walcott would have been a great option today like v Spurs. Keeps defenders honest.

But again Giroud is no excuse for Ozil's general play, attitude, etc.

He's regarded as Germany's best player and he often had Mario Gomez as the lone striker.

Ozil was dreadful tbh but in his defence he is settling in and will come good and also he was one dreadful player amongst a few. Im confident when he gets the bit of summer to prepare that he'll come into his own next season. I can accept there is an adjusting period to English football.

Cazorla was poor enough today but Wilshere in my opinion is starting to really piss me off. Continuously whining and blubbering at the ref. Guilty of much of our pedestrian approach. This year with the emergence of Ramsey, Wilshere should be saying to himself 'im in trouble' here and upping the ante. Instead he is strolling around the field with a sense of self entitlement believing that he is too good to be fouled because he is an English international

citytillidie

tayto lover wrote: »

Just got this message PM'd to me. Dont know why.

heidiklum
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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Heading for 10 years without a trophy ...bottlers

I replied that I was in Anfield in 1989. Bottlers :D

Could not call that team of 89 bottlers, more like exchusted

Spanish Johnny

Marty McFly wrote: »

It's kinda true though, we were brilliant at quick pacy counter attacks for years.

Fabregas always had runners off the ball to pick from and intelligent players around him.

Giroud up top has no pace and not the most mobile just slows everything down.

I don't disagree about Giroud lads but it's been used to gloss over Ozil's general application and affect. He has had Gnabry, Chamderlain, Podolski and Cazorla around him as well you know. Are we saying Ozil is only effective when he has Ronaldo playing with him?? Sure the two of us would be effective with Ronaldo in our team.

I expect more and he needs to step up. Very underwhelming so far.

Mickeroo

tayto lover wrote: »

Just got this message PM'd to me. Dont know why.

heidiklum
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4
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Heading for 10 years without a trophy ...bottlers

I replied that I was in Anfield in 1989. Bottlers :D

I wasn't aware we'd have been given a trophy for winning today, now I'm even more upset :mad:

tayto lover

citytillidie wrote: »

Could not call that team of 89 bottlers, more like exchusted

It was only a retort to a fool though.

Soups123

tayto lover wrote: »

Just got this message PM'd to me. Dont know why.

heidiklum
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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Heading for 10 years without a trophy ...bottlers

I replied that I was in Anfield in 1989. Bottlers :D

Remember delicious?

Spanish Johnny

Deleted User wrote: »

Ozil was dreadful tbh but in his defence he is settling in and will come good and also he was one dreadful player amongst a few. Im confident when he gets the bit of summer to prepare that he'll come into his own next season. I can accept there is an adjusting period to English football.

Cazorla was poor enough today but Wilshere in my opinion is starting to really piss me off. Continuously whining and blubbering at the ref. Guilty of much of our pedestrian approach. This year with the emergence of Ramsey, Wilshere should be saying to himself 'im in trouble' here and upping the ante. Instead he is strolling around the field with a sense of self entitlement believing that he is too good to be fouled because he is an English international

Really? I thought offensively he was all that offered anything today apart from Chamberlain. Agreed on the attitude though.

Noo

That.......




....escalated quickly!

tayto lover

Soups123 wrote: »

Remember delicious?

No. Enlighten me please.
He must be new as he only has 4 posts.

Marty McFly

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

I don't disagree about Giroud lads but it's been used to gloss over Ozil's general application and affect. He has had Gnabry, Chamderlain, Podolski and Cazorla around him as well you know. Are we saying Ozil is only effective when he has Ronaldo playing with him?? Sure the two of us would be effective with Ronaldo in our team.

I expect more and he needs to step up. Very underwhelming so far.

But Giroud is the focal point of the attack and all the players you mentioned are suffering wth the same headache they cannot give through balls because Giroud has no pace to latch onto them.

In the Palace game he had the most passes and most completed passes.

brianregan09

I love Giroud he gives his heart for the jersey in most games and does a thankless job, But in the end he is not good enough , He would be amazing in the Dzeko role if we had another top top striker , How good would it be to have him on the bench to come in hungry to prove a point

Soups123

tayto lover wrote: »

No. Enlighten me please.
He must be new as he only has 4 posts.

Remember the spurs lad who used to post a lot in here while spurs were flying last year? Used to love the PMs then went missing. I got a PM today of him, gas lad but only one for the Sunny days

Spanish Johnny

Marty McFly wrote: »

But Giroud is the focal point of the attack and all the players you mentioned are suffering wth the same headache they cannot give through balls because Giroud has no pace to latch onto them.

In the Palace game he had the most passes and most completed passes.

So had Tom Cleverley for United a few weeks back.

Benzema isn't exactly Walcott and neither was Mario Gomez and both are the focal point of their respective attacks. Didn't seem a factor then.

IF we beat Man U, I thoroughly believe it'll be as important as Bayern away last year.

gosplan

1: Norwich did not do us a favour. City choked after a loss to Chelsea with a few key injuries. This is what I was talking about yesterday. Their character has not been proven.

2: You can't blame Ozil, Giroud or anyone for today. 4-0 down after 20 is a collective thing. No one player could have changed it.

Gringo180

RasTa wrote: »

Might be too raw but what are your thoughts on Ozil so far? I haven't watched every Arsenal game but in the big ones he has gone missing.

I am one of his biggest fans but the lad was pathetic today, just didn't want to know when we went a few goals down as did most of the team may I add. We won't be winning any league this year we just haven't got the fire power unfortunately.

Mickeroo

Marty McFly wrote: »

But Giroud is the focal point of the attack and all the players you mentioned are suffering wth the same headache they cannot give through balls because Giroud has no pace to latch onto them.

In the Palace game he had the most passes and most completed passes.

But most of our crosses and final balls don't make it past the last defender in the first place. It's not just Giroud, the whole team lacks the direct style of play we're missing without Walcott. If Giroud is holding the ball up then Caz, Ozil and Oxo should be bombing past him into the box, that doesn't happen. Everyone just plays sideways passes around the box then runs into a defender and loses the ball.

Monreal makes more runs into the box than any of our attacking midfielders.

Not denying we don't need to improve on Giroud but a pacey, direct player in midfield would be just as welcome. Look at the way Hazard played for Chelsea today for example.

Spanish Johnny

Mickeroo wrote: »

But most of our crosses and final balls don't make it past the last defender in the first place. It's not just Giroud, the whole team lacks the direct style of play we're missing without Walcott. If Giroud is holding the ball up then Caz, Ozil and Oxo should be bombing past him into the box, that doesn't happen. Everyone just plays sideways passes around the box then runs into a defender and loses the ball.

Monreal makes more runs into the box than any of our attacking midfielders.

Yip true. Do we ever really get two men in the box? Wrecks my head. Today Sagna had the ball wide right and you looked across and Rosicky, Chambo, Cazorla, Giroud (who had laid it off) and Wilshere were all in a line 35 yards from goal and not more than one burst through.

tayto lover

Walcott can be annoying at times but since his injury nobody has got in behind the defenders and caused them trouble. We are one dimensional.

Marty McFly

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

So had Tom Cleverley for United a few weeks back.

Benzema isn't exactly Walcott and neither was Mario Gomez and both are the focal point of their respective attacks. Didn't seem a factor then.

Benzema and Gomez both better players than Giroud though.

Giroud slows our play down to much and gives our attacking players a real lack of option in the final 3rd because basically he needs the ball at his feet and although he can make intelligent runs at times he doesn't do it enough. Be great to recieve the ball and lay up for another Cf running off him but we dont have that either.

When Walcott is in the team he makes the runs players like Ozil and Cazorla can make use of, as much pace and skill as Chamberlain and Gnabry have neither are making them runs yet at least meaning there looking to Giroud who well has the mobility of a lad carrying Dawn French on his back.

Spanish Johnny

tayto lover wrote: »

Walcott can be annoying at times but since his injury nobody has got in behind the defenders and caused them trouble. We are one dimensional.

I think that can sum us up. Basically we are too easy to play against if opposition set up right.

Gringo180

tayto lover wrote: »

Walcott can be annoying at times but since his injury nobody has got in behind the defenders and caused them trouble. We are one dimensional.

We get to 25 yards from the oppositions goal and then start passing it sidewards and backwards starting our build up play all over again, and its because nobody is bothering there hole making a forward run in behind the defence. If we had Henry, Anelka, Wiltord, pacey clever centre forwards I am certain we would of scored 3 or 4 today.

Spanish Johnny

Marty McFly wrote: »

Benzema and Gomez both better players than Giroud though.

Giroud slows our play down to much and gives our attacking players a real lack of option in the final 3rd because basically he needs the ball at his feet and although he can make intelligent runs at times he doesn't do it enough. Be great to recieve the ball and lay up for another Cf running off him but we dont have that either.

When Walcott is in the team he makes the runs players like Ozil and Cazorla can make use of, as much pace and skill as Chamberlain and Gnabry have neither are making them runs yet at least meaning there looking to Giroud who well has the mobility of a lad carrying Dawn French on his back.

Agree with all that Marty. But again are we basically excusing Ozil saying we are not expecting him to shine unless Walcott is in our team?

How come Cazorla can do it and others? Couple of assists in last 11 or so games from Ozil is paltry.

Royale with Cheese

Anyone up for a mass suicide?

tayto lover

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Anyone up for a mass suicide?

Jim Jones here?

Gringo180

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Agree with all that Marty. But again are we basically excusing Ozil saying we are not expecting him to shine unless Walcott is in our team?

How come Cazorla can do it and others? Couple of assists in last 11 or so games from Ozil is paltry.

But you see Ozil needs a player making those forward runs to see the best out of him, look at him at Madrid for instance, he must of assisted a huge % of Ronaldo's goals. Ronaldo made the runs in behind whereas we havent got that type of player in our team. Its the one kink in our armour.

gosplan

Argh, stop trying to analyse it!!

4 goals in 20 minutes.

What we need is not to lose our heads to that extent.

Gringo180

gosplan wrote: »

Argh, stop trying to analyse it!!

4 goals in 20 minutes.

What we need is not to lose our heads to that extent.

But we didn't score from open play today and didn't even look threatening in the final third against a make shift Liverpool defence.

Marty McFly

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Agree with all that Marty. But again are we basically excusing Ozil saying we are not expecting him to shine unless Walcott is in our team?

How come Cazorla can do it and others? Couple of assists in last 11 or so games from Ozil is paltry.

I'm not excusing him I used the stat of the Palace game to show he is getting the ball passing it successfully at a very high rate he is just not doing the final ball very well, well because he has no one to give the final ball to no one making the runs for him to pick out.

But Cazorla hasn't really been doing it though? He had a poor season really bar one or two games.

I think with Ramsey and Walcott in the team we would look a lot different two players who were making the right runs and being direct. Ramsey got himself into terrifc positions and it would also help bring out the best in Ozil.

Marty McFly

gosplan wrote: »

Argh, stop trying to analyse it!!

4 goals in 20 minutes.

What we need is not to lose our heads to that extent.

I'm not even talking about today's game I'm over that onto the United game.

Im just analysing our play in general and my feeling we need a sidekick or a better option than Giroud to improve our play.

Spanish Johnny

Marty McFly wrote: »

I'm not excusing him I used the stat of the Palace game to show he is getting the ball passing it successfully at a very high rate he is just not doing the final ball very well, well because he has no one to give the final ball to no one making the runs for him to pick out.

But Cazorla hasn't really been doing it though? He had a poor season really bar one or two games.

I think with Ramsey and Walcott in the team we would look a lot different two players who were making the right runs and being direct. Ramsey got himself into terrifc positions and it would also help bring out the best in Ozil.

Ya Ramsey and Walcott are a huge part of our attacking game. It's a shame.

In fairness since New Years Cazorla has scored 5 goals and has a couple of assists too.

batistuta9

i hope people are right about ozil because he's starting to remind me of arshavin

Spanish Johnny

Gringo180 wrote: »

But you see Ozil needs a player making those forward runs to see the best out of him, look at him at Madrid for instance, he must of assisted a huge % of Ronaldo's goals. Ronaldo made the runs in behind whereas we havent got that type of player in our team. Its the one kink in our armour.

Fair enough but as silly as this sounds it makes him sound like a very one dimensional type of player for 40 million quid plus in that he needs a rare breed of player around him to thrive. Mata, Silva,Hazard, Countinho, Cazorla seem to have more to their bow in that regard.

Gringo180

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Fair enough but as silly as this sounds it makes him sound like a very one dimensional type of player for 40 million quid plus in that he needs a rare breed of player around him to thrive. Mata, Silva,Hazard, Countinho, Cazorla seem to have more to their bow in that regard.

Remember it took Hazard most of last season to settle in and now there starting to see the best out of him. Hopefully this is the case with Ozil. What worries me is that if we cant break down that Liverpool defence there's no hope of us breaking down Chelsea's away from home and if we don't beat them its game over in the title race.

Awesomeness

Shake it off regroup for united. That was awful but we are still in the race. There will be more twists yet.

The next week is about redemption.

Also feckin hate to see fans leave early no matter the score. Sickens me

AdamD

Didn't see much of the game so my only input is this:


Rosicky first name on the team sheet for our midfield.

Hyzepher

Its funny that the two teams with the biggest goal difference are 3rd and 4th.

Large wins only get you 3 points. Large defeats still only get you nothing. As City have shown its the stupid dropped points that hurt your points total.

Today was interesting for a few reasons.

Chelsea cant hide in the shadows any more - little horse or not.
City aren't that great under pressure.
Liverpool still think they can win the title and have enough big games to decide where the trophy will go
Arsenal seem to have an air of luck about them. Lose 5-1 and still stay in second, only one point behind.

The way things are going we could come out of these difficult fixtures not having played well and still be only a few points off the top. After all of the four tough matches in a row - including this one - only two were league. The three after that should set us up nicely for the run in and we'll see where we are then.

gandalf

Still in a sense of shock here after hearing the result, luckily I didn't see the match I had to bring the kid to Mr. Peabody & Sherman (its not bad!). If I had of watched the match I probably would have smashed the telly !!!!

However the other results have not been too bad. If I had a choice of who I would have wanted to win today between Chelsea and Man City I would have chosen Chelsea because I do believe if City do get ahead then they will run away with it.

It is worrying that we are not getting results against the top teams but as long as they bleed the advantage they have gotten over us against the lower table teams we are still in the hunt. I wouldn't start jumping off bridges yet lads. However we have to win midweek against United.

ronjo

Can't face reading back through the thread after that.

Wenger has a massive job now between now and Wednesday. Need to really earn your crust Arsene.