Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 mod warning post #5144

TheGunns · 20-02-2014 2:33pm

ronjo wrote: »

I think I would bring back Giroud at the weekend for a couple of reasons.

1. tough for Sanogo to play 3 games in a week when just breaking into the team and after injury.
2. Assuming Girouds head is alright maybe a few games on the bench has made him realise he is not always guaranteed a start and will spur him on.

Wouldn't want him at the weekend tbh, full 90 and the Liverpool game should be enough for now. Giroud or Podolski up front I would guess, wonder whether Wenger is punishing Giroud for breaking team rules? His head isn't right but he probably is facing some sort of fine/punishment for it

ronjo · 20-02-2014 2:35pm

TheGunns wrote: »

Wouldn't want him at the weekend tbh, full 90 and the Liverpool game should be enough for now. Giroud or Podolski up front I would guess, wonder whether Wenger is punishing Giroud for breaking team rules? His head isn't right but he probably is facing some sort of fine/punishment for it

I would start them both at the weekend and give Ozil a rest.
Play Santi in the number 10 role.

I dont think we will ever find out if he is actually being punished and thats the way it should be.

Paulegend · 20-02-2014 2:39pm

to be honest saying that wilshere and ox are unproven is a fair comment. both have loads of potential to be world class players but neither are anywhere near that. the very same as sterling and coutinho or even jumanji at united are nowhere near it. they all could go on to be world class players unlike cleverly but it will take years before they become that.

none of the mentioned players will be world class before they are 24/25. none of them are in the messi/ronaldo bracket. if you asked a fan about any of them in italy spain or germany they wouldnt have a clue who you are talking about. the same way we dont all talk about Iker Munian or Marco Fossati. if they become world class it will most likely be around the age of 27/28 and in a major final or something. wilshere will probably be engands best player at a euros or a world cup or something. or else sterling will be scoring goals for fun all of a sudden. these are when players like this become world class. after years of playing at the highest level and then reaching their peak and actually making a world class difference to the team they are playing with. even sturridge who is in world class for is not world class. if he does this for another full season then he will be getting there but a one and a half season run doesnt make you world class.

anyone who talks about these players being close to the world class braket right now has no idea what they are talking about. the same people who actually think ozil and rooney are world class. the same people who think that sturridge is world class. the same people who ever thought michael owen was world class and not just top class

TheGunns · 20-02-2014 2:41pm

Paulegend wrote: »

anyone who talks about these players being close to the world class braket right now has no idea what they are talking about. the same people who actually think ozil and rooney are world class. the same people who think that sturridge is world class. the same people who ever thought michael owen was world class and not just top class

but Rooney and Ozil are?

If they played for Spanish clubs everyone would be dribbling over them (like they were with Ozil)

Mickeroo · 20-02-2014 2:41pm

Paulegend wrote: »

to be honest saying that wilshere and ox are unproven is a fair comment. both have loads of potential to be world class players but neither are anywhere near that. the very same as sterling and coutinho or even jumanji at united are nowhere near it. they all could go on to be world class players unlike cleverly but it will take years before they become that.

none of the mentioned players will be world class before they are 24/25. none of them are in the messi/ronaldo bracket. if you asked a fan about any of them in italy spain or germany they wouldnt have a clue who you are talking about. the same way we dont all talk about Iker Munian or Marco Fossati. if they become world class it will most likely be around the age of 27/28 and in a major final or something. wilshere will probably be engands best player at a euros or a world cup or something. or else sterling will be scoring goals for fun all of a sudden. these are when players like this become world class. after years of playing at the highest level and then reaching their peak and actually making a world class difference to the team they are playing with. even sturridge who is in world class for is not world class. if he does this for another full season then he will be getting there but a one and a half season run doesnt make you world class.

anyone who talks about these players being close to the world class braket right now has no idea what they are talking about. the same people who actually think ozil and rooney are world class. the same people who think that sturridge is world class. the same people who ever thought michael owen was world class and not just top class

No denying Ozil and Rooney aren't in world class form at the moment but they they certainly were in the past imo. Who said Ox and Wilshire are world class btw?

Kerry Gooner · 20-02-2014 2:43pm

ronjo wrote: »

Yes Walcott and Ramsey offer creativity and goals but both in different ways and both different to the likes of Ozil, Cazorla, Rosicky and Jack.
Hopefully Ramsey will be back sooner rather than later.

Think it's more that the runs that they make give more options to their creative team mates plus their pace forces opponents to defend deeper thus allowing more space to the playmakers to exploit

Skylinehead · 20-02-2014 2:59pm

Paulegend wrote: »

to be honest saying that wilshere and ox are unproven is a fair comment. both have loads of potential to be world class players but neither are anywhere near that. the very same as sterling and coutinho or even jumanji at united are nowhere near it. they all could go on to be world class players unlike cleverly but it will take years before they become that.

none of the mentioned players will be world class before they are 24/25. none of them are in the messi/ronaldo bracket. if you asked a fan about any of them in italy spain or germany they wouldnt have a clue who you are talking about. the same way we dont all talk about Iker Munian or Marco Fossati. if they become world class it will most likely be around the age of 27/28 and in a major final or something. wilshere will probably be engands best player at a euros or a world cup or something. or else sterling will be scoring goals for fun all of a sudden. these are when players like this become world class. after years of playing at the highest level and then reaching their peak and actually making a world class difference to the team they are playing with. even sturridge who is in world class for is not world class. if he does this for another full season then he will be getting there but a one and a half season run doesnt make you world class.

anyone who talks about these players being close to the world class braket right now has no idea what they are talking about. the same people who actually think ozil and rooney are world class. the same people who think that sturridge is world class. the same people who ever thought michael owen was world class and not just top class

Have you seen Ozil at Real Madrid? He's truly world class, just hasn't settled here yet. As for Rooney, I know you've seen him, which makes that an even more bizarre comment.

Paulegend · 20-02-2014 3:02pm

TheGunns wrote: »

but Rooney and Ozil are?
If they played for Spanish clubs everyone would be dribbling over them (like they were with Ozil)

probably. but they are not world class players

Mickeroo wrote: »

No denying Ozil and Rooney aren't in world class form at the moment but they they certainly were in the past imo. Who said Ox and Wilshire are world class btw?

its fair to say that they have been in world class form at times but neither have ever sustained that level. neither have stayed in the "pirlo" or "raul" level for more than a year at a time.

Rooney had 3 seasons where he has ever scored more than 20 goals and 1 season where he scored 20. those seasons sandwiched p1ss poor seasons with goal returns around the 17/18 mark. not bad but certainly not world class. people make excuses for him and say he is more a number 10 than a striker. rooney is a striker. but he is a second striker.

Raul on the other hand is a world class striker. no excuses are made for him. he often played a deeper role but noone pretended he was actually a number 10. he has had only a couple of years where his goals tally was less than 20 throughout the season

striker playing 38-50+ games a season should be able to score 20 goals ffs. if they are world class they should be able to manage it.

ozil had how many good seasons in madrid?? we was another one of these young players that had loads of potential and madrid wanted to buy him before he reached it. higgs was the same but arguablly has become world class. benzema is not world class but was the very same idea. same with khedera. great players but not world class players.

world class players are players that in 20 years time you think back and say "oh f#ck, do you remember when (enter players name) did (enter really out of this world moment here)"

rooney and ozil would not be in that sentence

Paulegend · 20-02-2014 3:04pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

Have you seen Ozil at Real Madrid? He's truly world class, just hasn't settled here yet. As for Rooney, I know you've seen him, which makes that an even more bizarre comment.

what has rooney ever done that was world class?? name a moment where you thought that no other player would be able to do that.

ozil was a great player at madrid surrounded by great players at madrid. but again he never outclassed his team mates. not once

modric has been class at madrid but he isnt world class either

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 20-02-2014 3:08pm

Paulegend wrote: »

world class players are players that in 20 years time you think back and say "oh f#ck, do you remember when (enter players name) did (enter really out of this world moment here)"

rooney and ozil would not be in that sentence

It's completely open to interpretation. Where did this discussion even come from?

keano_afc · 20-02-2014 3:10pm

This thread hurts my eyes sometimes.

TimeToShine · 20-02-2014 3:13pm

Paulegend wrote: »

what has rooney ever done that was world class?? name a moment where you thought that no other player would be able to do that.

ozil was a great player at madrid surrounded by great players at madrid. but again he never outclassed his team mates. not once

modric has been class at madrid but he isnt world class either

Rooneys bicycle kick was definitely world class.

Alfred Borden · 20-02-2014 3:15pm

No excuses but found this interesting. Interfering with play by blocking Kos?

Bg7ESaDCIAAn7wi.jpg:large

Skylinehead · 20-02-2014 3:15pm

Paulegend wrote: »

what has rooney ever done that was world class?? name a moment where you thought that no other player would be able to do that.

ozil was a great player at madrid surrounded by great players at madrid. but again he never outclassed his team mates. not once

modric has been class at madrid but he isnt world class either

Rooney - how about a goal every 2 games for the past 9 years, 27 in 34 when he actually played as a striker in 11/12, 26 in 32 in 09/10. Every other year he hasn't played as an out-and-out striker.

Ozil - how is the most assists in Europe over a 3 year span not world class?

gosplan · 20-02-2014 3:17pm

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

It's completely open to interpretation. Where did this discussion even come from?

I'm guessing Suarez and Gerrard fit into the definition or something.

Funnily enough, I think possibly none of the Bayern team fit the previous description of 'world class'. I'm sure they care.

Hey, here's a thought does anyone actually give a sh1t about whether a player is labelled 'top class' or 'world class'. Isn't that just a definition for cretinous journalists who find it impossible to accurately articulate what a player brings to a game.

That and a random categorisation for idiots to argue about on message forums as well.

Spanish Johnny · 20-02-2014 3:20pm

So how are we feeling for the weekend? Think as the majority said we need energy and fresher players back in. Sunderland haven't played a full strength side in 2 weeks so will be well up for this. Vital vital 3 points.

gnfnrhead · 20-02-2014 3:21pm

Raf32 wrote: »

No excuses but found this interesting. Interfering with play by blocking Kos?

Good spot. I seen him in the offside position but didnt see the block. Just seen he wasnt involved with the ball so paid no more attention to it.

You cant really blame the official for not seeing that either. He was rightly focused on the ball. Linesman might have not been able to see it either.

Alfred Borden · 20-02-2014 3:22pm

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Good spot. I seen him in the offside position but didnt see the block. Just seen he wasnt involved with the ball so paid no more attention to it.

You cant really blame the official for not seeing that either. He was rightly focused on the ball. Linesman might have not been able to see it either.

Oh yes of course, hard to see for a ref just found it interesting when i saw it so said i would share.

ronjo · 20-02-2014 3:26pm

Paulegend wrote: »

what has rooney ever done that was world class?? name a moment where you thought that no other player would be able to do that.

ozil was a great player at madrid surrounded by great players at madrid. but again he never outclassed his team mates. not once

modric has been class at madrid but he isnt world class either

Didnt Ozil get voted German player of the year the last two years?

Surely that alone would make him world class....... no?

ETA........ IT was 3 years in row

Oranage2 · 20-02-2014 3:31pm

Out of interest would anybody rate Flamini as a world class DM?

gnfnrhead · 20-02-2014 3:31pm

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

So how are we feeling for the weekend? Think as the majority said we need energy and fresher players back in. Sunderland haven't played a full strength side in 2 weeks so will be well up for this. Vital vital 3 points.

I'm confidant of three points. We have been very solid at the back so we wont concede any more than one. Up front we are good enough to score at least two. Might be only one goal in it, but I'm confidant it will be in our favour.

I'd go with:

Szczesny

- Jenkinson - Bossclieny - Mertesacker - Monreal

Wilshere ---- Flamini

-Chamberlain

Rosicky

Podolski

Giroud

Assuming those are all available.

Giroud has had a few days off now so should be fresh. I'd also give Özil the day off to hopefully let him know he isnt undroppable. Sanogo shouldnt play three games in a week if it can be avoided. Chamberlain could do with the day off, but has been great recently so dont want to drop him to the bench.

ronjo · 20-02-2014 3:33pm

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I'm confidant of three points. We have been very solid at the back so we wont concede any more than one. Up front we are good enough to score at least two. Might be only one goal in it, but I'm confidant it will be in our favour.

I'd go with:
Szczesny

- Jenkinson - Bossclieny - Mertesacker - Monreal
Wilshere ---- Flamini

-Chamberlain
Rosicky
Podolski
Giroud

Assuming those are all available.

Giroud has had a few days off now so should be fresh. I'd also give Özil the day off to hopefully let him know he isnt undroppable. Sanogo shouldnt play three games in a week if it can be avoided. Chamberlain could do with the day off, but has been great recently so dont want to drop him to the bench.

I would give Jack a break and put Rosicky in there and Santi in the number 10.
Too often Jack picks up injuries when overplayed.
Would consider Gnabry for right side but purely dependant on how Ox is.

shano_88 · 20-02-2014 3:35pm

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

So how are we feeling for the weekend? Think as the majority said we need energy and fresher players back in. Sunderland haven't played a full strength side in 2 weeks so will be well up for this. Vital vital 3 points.

4 to 5 changes possibly.

Monreal, Arteta, Rosicky, Podolski and Giroud in.

Gibbs, Flamini, Ozil, Chamberlain and Sanogo possibly out.

Frisbee · 20-02-2014 3:37pm

I'd like to see:

Szcz

Sagna

Per

Kosc----Monreal

Arteta----Rosicky

Gnabry

Cazorla

Podolski

Giroud

emergingstar · 20-02-2014 3:38pm

I'm guessing back 5 stays the same if Gibbs makes it

Flamini/arteta
Gnabry. Cazorla. Pod
Giroud

They should be fresh enough and then the rest on the bench but hopefully not needed

Edit: I forgot rosicky he replaces gnabry

cson · 20-02-2014 3:43pm

Arteta will come back in for Flamini after the ground Flamini covered last night.

Chamberlain won't start after the knock and I'd suspect Ozil will be rested too. Sagna will definitely start.

Woj

Sagna -- Mertesacker -- Koscielny --- Monreal

Arteta

Rosicky

Cazorla

Wilshere

Podolski

Sanogo

Would be my thinking. Potentially swapping Gnabry in and shifting Cazorla to the middle with Wilshere losing out. Can't see Giroud getting his head right in 3 days if he wasn't ready to play last night. We might see him back against Stoke.

We've got 3 important games that are nicely spaced out and give us a chance to give those who need a rest time off and get Ramsey, Kallstrom, Gibbs, Vermaelen back to fitness. Think Diaby is supposed to be back around March too actually - not that we can expect anything from a guy who's been out for a year, but its another body for us.

Mickeroo · 20-02-2014 3:44pm

I like to see Sanogo start again to see how he gets on against a poorer team than Liverpool and Bayern.

cson · 20-02-2014 3:45pm

Oh and two things popped into my head about last night; (i) how awesome were the fans all nigh, and (ii) did anyone else notice Santi crying as he came off?

gnfnrhead · 20-02-2014 3:46pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

I like to see Sanogo start again to see how he gets on against a poorer team than Liverpool and Bayern.

Three games in a week might be too much.

TheGunns · 20-02-2014 3:53pm

cson wrote: »

Oh and two things popped into my head about last night; (i) how awesome were the fans all nigh, and (ii) did anyone else notice Santi crying as he came off?

Someone did say it to me about Santi crying, thought they were taking the piss though

2ndcoming · 20-02-2014 4:00pm

Biting my tongue

Alfred Borden · 20-02-2014 4:00pm

Well lads was just wondering who are the best arsenal accounts to follow on twitter bar the players? I follow Geoff, Darren and Dean. any other good ones to follow?

ronjo · 20-02-2014 4:08pm

Raf32 wrote: »

Well lads was just wondering who are the best arsenal accounts to follow on twitter bar the players? I follow Geoff, Darren and Dean. any other good ones to follow?

Piers Morgan will give you very insightful thoughts.

20-02-2014 4:09pm

Raf32 wrote: »

Well lads was just wondering who are the best arsenal accounts to follow on twitter bar the players? I follow Geoff, Darren and Dean. any other good ones to follow?

Arseblog is a must.

Alfred Borden · 20-02-2014 4:11pm

Cheers boys ill follow arseblog but am not going to read through that insufferable troll morgan's timeline again :pac:

shano_88 · 20-02-2014 4:14pm

Raf32 wrote: »

Cheers boys ill follow arseblog but am not going to read through that insufferable troll morgan's timeline again :pac:

Arsenaltickets is very handy for sourcing tickets...

Alfred Borden · 20-02-2014 4:16pm

shano_88 wrote: »

Arsenaltickets is very handy for sourcing tickets...

Cheers mate, meaning to get over to a game later in the season so that could prove very handy!

Nemeses2050 · 20-02-2014 4:20pm

Frisbee wrote: »

I'd like to see:
Szcz
Sagna
Per
Kosc----Monreal
Arteta----Rosicky
Gnabry
Cazorla
Podolski
Giroud

I like that line up.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 20-02-2014 4:26pm

Raf32 wrote: »

Well lads was just wondering who are the best arsenal accounts to follow on twitter bar the players? I follow Geoff, Darren and Dean. any other good ones to follow?

Tim Stillman, he writes regular columns for arseblog.

Alfred Borden · 20-02-2014 4:28pm

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Tim Stillman, he writes regular columns for arseblog.

Just saw him come up as a suggestion when i followed arseblog so followed him cheers mate!

20-02-2014 4:31pm

ronjo wrote: »

Piers Morgan will give you very insightful thoughts.

Really really hate the fact that this bell-end claims to support Arsenal.

Was actually enjoying Fox's US Premier League coverage last year until they had him on for the NLD.

They lost all credibility after that.

AdamD · 20-02-2014 4:41pm

Fox and credibility in the same sentence makes for really odd reading

Mickeroo · 20-02-2014 4:45pm

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Three games in a week might be too much.

Yeah you're probably right. Such a shame he got injured when he did and missed out on starting in the Capital One.

Mickeroo · 20-02-2014 4:46pm

Raf32 wrote: »

Well lads was just wondering who are the best arsenal accounts to follow on twitter bar the players? I follow Geoff, Darren and Dean. any other good ones to follow?

Deleted User wrote: »

Arseblog is a must.

Arseblog has a decent Smartphone app too. Well worth getting.

Alfred Borden · 20-02-2014 4:49pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Arseblog has a decent Smartphone app too. Well worth getting.

Gonna have to update the old phone so! :pac:

20-02-2014 4:53pm

AdamD wrote: »

Fox and credibility in the same sentence makes for really odd reading

Ha ha true...very oxymoronic of me

I do like Wynalda and Warren Barton though. Whether you would agree with them or not is subjective but they are entertaining.

20-02-2014 4:56pm

Raf32 wrote: »

Gonna have to update the old phone so! :pac:

May i recommend the latest model :P

(Borrowed from a previous post from Maire2009 - thanks Maire)

Paulegend · 20-02-2014 5:09pm

ronjo wrote: »

Didnt Ozil get voted German player of the year the last two years?

Surely that alone would make him world class....... no?

ETA........ IT was 3 years in row

you mean the fans poll??? not the actual award of the german player of the year

and no

i think Gerrard is top class but do i think he is world class??? maybe not anymore. but he is putting in the same stats at ozil

again im not putting down ozil. id love to have him at liverpool. i just think that for his price he is not world class.

if ye build a team around him though he will be leathel for ye

20-02-2014 5:12pm

Paulegend wrote: »

you mean the fans poll??? not the actual award of the german player of the year

and no

i think Gerrard is top class but do i think he is world class??? maybe not anymore. but he is putting in the same stats at ozil

again im not putting down ozil. id love to have him at liverpool. i just think that for his price he is not world class.

if ye build a team around him though he will be leathel for ye

Once he finds his feet i think he will be. he comes across as a real gent in interviews and has really fitted in with the rest of the squad. Really want him to succeed because he is not just a fantastic footballer but a seemingly terrific guy

Skylinehead · 20-02-2014 5:15pm

Ozil for 42m was an absolute bargain, especially when you consider Bales pricetag.

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 mod warning post #5144

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