Sick to death of VIP

banquo

Seriously. For the third time the cigarette I bought (the main battery part) didn't work. From scratch. At all. I usually get it replaced, but I'm sick to death of this.

So I go in to them with my receipt, four days old, and ask for a refund, and they say they "don't do" refunds. At all. Wouldn't call the manager, wouldn't give me the number, and to make a complaint I got a (not free) phone number to call.

What the hell? I worked in retail for years and I'm pretty well versed in what you can't-and-can't get a refund for. Are E-cigarettes in a category of products for which just an exchange will suffice, and you're not automatically entitled to a refund?

grindle

banquo wrote: »

What the hell? I worked in retail for years and I'm pretty well versed in what you can't-and-can't get a refund for. Are E-cigarettes in a category of products for which just an exchange will suffice, and you're not automatically entitled to a refund?

If it's faulty, unless they sold it to you as faulty they HAVE to give you a refund. There are no products that are unrefundable if faulty unless that was what was agreed at the point of purchase.

StickyIcky

If it goes faulty within 7 days you can ask for / demand a refund, could even be 14 days I forget now. After that the retailer can choose how they wish to resolve it. Call the national consumer agency if they refuse you, the consumer usually always wins, don't take any ****.

banquo

Thanks guys! Looks like smokegreen.ie now, I've had an absolute rake of recommendations from friends.

meoklmrk91

Tbh OP I wouldn't recommend smoke green either, now I don't know anything about their customer service it could be fantastic but you will save yourself money by getting a system that you can fill yourself, plus you will get to try so many more flavours of e-liquid, I think smoke green only do 4 or 5. There are many excellent vendors that sell high quality fill it yourself systems that are well known for standing behind their products and will have no issue with replacing or refunding when something goes wrong.

banquo

I have a fill-it-yourself one, and it's so much better than the disposables - didn't know that SmokeGreen didn't do those, pah!

(The disposables I mentioned before were for my mother)

Michael D Not Higgins

FYI, the law allows the retailer to repair, replace or refund. You don't get to demand a refund if they are willing to exchange it.

meoklmrk91

banquo wrote: »

I have a fill-it-yourself one, and it's so much better than the disposables - didn't know that SmokeGreen didn't do those, pah!

(The disposables I mentioned before were for my mother)

Have a look here for vendors that are recommended, my own personal favourite is e-smoke ireland but there are loads of great vendors.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056339286

banquo

I'm not sure though, I worked in retail for many, many awful years - once had a lady tried to return a donut a day after buying it - and in all the places I worked we were always told that you can replace or refund it. As in, if it's not fit for purpose then the customer hasn't accepted the item.

The language on the Consumer Rights website is kinda vague.

Michael D Not Higgins

banquo wrote: »

I'm not sure though, I worked in retail for many, many awful years - once had a lady tried to return a donut a day after buying it - and in all the places I worked we were always told that you can replace or refund it. As in, if it's not fit for purpose then the customer hasn't accepted the item.

The language on the Consumer Rights website is kinda vague.

You can't compare it to perishable food goods. The ecig isn't going to go bad the next day. The law is clear. Repair replace refund. They do one of these and they're covered.

banquo

My understanding is that if the fault is minor - like you buy a shirt is missing - then they only have to replace it. But if the core product itself isn't working then I can rescind / reject the contract and get a refund.

Michael D Not Higgins

banquo wrote: »

My understanding is that if the fault is minor - like you buy a shirt is missing - then they only have to replace it. But if the core product itself isn't working then I can rescind / reject the contract and get a refund.

Bit if they replace like for like with a working product, they fulfil the contract as per the law. Go ask on the consumer issues board, they'll tell you the same.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_complaints/how_to_make_a_consumer_complaint.html
"Remember: A repair, a replacement or a refund are all possible options where goods are faulty."

banquo

Does that not refer to my options, as opposed to the retailers? That page links to http://www.consumerhelp.ie/ which refers to them as "Your Options", and I'd consider it not working a "Major Fault"!

Here as well, from the Consumer section of Boards.

Your rights when things go wrong

If goods are not of merchantable quality or are not fit for their purpose or are not as described the consumer is entitled to a remedy.

If the reason for the complaint is not trivial and is discovered soon after purchase, the consumer is entitled to reject the goods and insist on a full refund provided prompt action is action is taken.

If the goods have been used for some time, or if there is undue delay in making the complaint, or if there is reason to believe that the goods have been accepted, the consumer's entitlement, at best, may be to a repair or to a partial refund.

There are no hard and fast rules as each case has to be considered on its merits.

When I worked in Tesco through college we had a guy try to return a Christmas tree in early January. "But it's within 28 days!"

Michael D Not Higgins

"As a general rule, the seller can either repair or replace the item. Alternatively, they can refund the costs of the item or service to the consumer."

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland.html

banquo

True, and it's what I've traditionally opted for. But aren't I also entitled to a refund if what I purchased doesn't work? Doesn't that fall under me not having accepted the contract?

Michael D Not Higgins

banquo wrote: »

True, and it's what I've traditionally opted for. But aren't I also entiteld to a refund if what I purchased doesn't work? Doesn't that fall under me not having accepted the contract?

The law is clear it's the seller's choice of option should an item be faulty.

banquo

ConsumerHelp.ie seems to differ?

Your options

If you bought an item that has a fault, either major or minor, you have different options depending on different things. In all cases you should act quickly. We have given a few examples below of the most common problems callers to the National Consumer Agency have.

Reject item - Full refund

If you agreed to buy something and it simply does not work from the outset, then you are entitled to reject the goods and get a refund from the seller. Examples include a new washing machine which fills with water but does not spin or drain, or a new TV set which the audio doesn’t work on. In both of these examples, the consumer has discovered a major problem/fault with the item as soon as they go to use it for the first time. In the shop they agreed to buy it, but clearly there is something wrong with the one they were given. The consumer has not “accepted” the item – they brought the item home but it does not do what it said it would and the consumer had the right to reject it. They can return it to the shop and demand a full refund. This will terminate the contract they had for the item with the seller.

Penny Tration

Whoa.

You're entitled to a repair, replacement or refund. It's not up to you, and it's not up to the seller, it should be an agreement between both. If the seller offers a replacement and you refuse, next steps to get a refund is the small claims court.


Anyway, vip only exchange (declaration - I work with them) generally. How long were you charging your battery for? 2 hours is the max.

I can understand getting a faulty battery once, but three times is really surprising.

As an aside, if you want to switch over to another brand (sure why wouldn't you after that), try esmokeieland, I'm sure one of the members here can post a link to a decent kit there.

banquo

Ususally they come with a little charge, but it started blinking on the second puff. So I tried charging for two hours as always, but was a little concerned when it didn't light up at the end while charging. Hadn't bought one in a few months, thought it just might be a new model or something.

So thinking it could be the USB charger - cheapy things, prone to breaking across the board in general - I tried an old one I still had. When that didn't work I figured right, another faulty battery, time for a refund.

They tested it in the shop today - in fairness to the staff they're genuinely polite, apologetic and generally lovely.

eCig batteries, by their nature, are prone to fault. It's not at all strictly a VIP problem. And I've bought far more than the average person (friends, family who wanted to try them, I've become an eCig evangelist!) so I was always going to find more duds.

In fairness, I've had a few of the larger photons from VIP and they're brilliant. No complaints, and definitely worth the cash for anyone still on disposables. I was just amazed that they lied to me saying they're not obliged to refund a faulty device which, as far as any Irish consumer websitse tells me, is not true.

Penny Tration

I promise, I'm not saying this to be pedantic.

But the retailer is obliged to offer redress, not definitely a refund. A replacement is redress, and basically how the law stands is that if the customer rejects the offered method of redress, and the retailer refuses another offer, then the next step is SmCC (bit useless considering the batteries are twelve euro :pac:).

Honestly, if you ring the head office, uyou will probably get a bbetter response.

The reason the staff don't ring for you is simply this - most of them are on minimum wage, we don't have work phones and we can't afford to buy enough credit for every unhappy customer to ring the head office, to be blunt.

The sales staff's hands are tied in that we're only allowed do certain things, like replacements. It's the rules of our job, even though we may not like adhering to them.

Ringing the number on the leaflet will probably result in the refund you want tbh.

As an aside, smoke green's customer service is shoddy. If there is a problem, the retailer tells you to take it to the manufacturer.

If it's specifically a cig-a-like you're looking for, I haven't heard anything bad really about Nicocig.

banquo

Thanks for the reply! I have zero problem with the staff, they're only following company policy. I worked in Tesco and a newsagents while in college and it was personally my fault that certain eggs weren't free range etc. And the lady who tried to return a Wii after it was smashed into a thousand pieces. Oh! And the man who tried to return a blazer he'd bought in Dunnes, "but sure you're both supermarkets?" Mad people.

But everywhere I worked there was always a phone for the staff in case a manager had to be called - it's the manager's job to be available pretty much always. Again, not the staff's fault. It's the policy I take umbridge with!

Penny Tration

We're not happy about the lack of a store phone ourselves (I've had to upgrade to a more expensive phone plan since starting the job!).

Do you mind if I ask which branch you were at? Just that one or two of them do have a shop phone, which could have been used if you were there.

banquo

Oh I tried the one in iLac centre, she was great and answered all my questions. Then about half an hour later I was still in town and thought "Wait, this is definitely within my statuatory rights" and, after feeling a little dirty about even thinking "I know my rights yada yada*", I was already in Jervis so I figured I'd ask there. See if it was the same story.

Your Galway staff are lovely too, though I haven't been there in months. It's just the refund policy I have umbridge with, though I'll certainly give the Irish number a call.




*Where's MY bailout!
*Where's MY Nama!
*Rabble

Thecageyone

The best thing ever happened me was getting a bunch of faulty batteries in a row from smokegreen. Seriously. They sent out replacements alright, fair enough, but each one died after about 2 days, stone cold dead, non-rechargeable. That's when I started looking into other options, and I'm so glad I did. Smokegreens will work, but they work out more expensive and less reliable than other options, like getting a simple ego starter pack and some juices.

StickyIcky

banquo wrote: »

Seriously. For the third time the cigarette I bought (the main battery part) didn't work. From scratch. At all. I usually get it replaced, but I'm sick to death of this.

StickyIcky wrote: »

If it goes faulty within 7 days you can ask for / demand a refund, could even be 14 days I forget now. After that the retailer can choose how they wish to resolve it.

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

FYI, the law allows the retailer to repair, replace or refund. You don't get to demand a refund if they are willing to exchange it.

I disagree in this instance Michael - 3rd time it's gone faulty for the same fault, I would be demanding a full refund and taking him to small claims if you refused me.

From consumer.ie

In the shop they agreed to buy it, but clearly there is something wrong with the one they were given. The consumer has not “accepted” the item – they brought the item home but it does not do what it said it would and the consumer had the right to reject it. They can return it to the shop and demand a full refund. This will terminate the contract they had for the item with the seller - See more at: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/faulty-goods#sthash.kS2AHkjX.dpuf

If it went faulty when he first used it he shouldn't have accepted the product and taken it back and demanded a refund. However sounds like he didn't reject the product so instead took a replacement. That same fault has occurred twice now so instead we're at this place...

If you start using the item for some time then it is deemed that you have accepted the item. But if you discover a fault then you are entitled to have the item repaired or replaced free of charge – provided you did not cause the damage. If the fault occurs within the first 6 months of owning the item, it is accepted that the fault was there when you bought it.

In general, the seller can offer to repair the item first. This should be a permanent repair and the problem should not reoccur. If the same fault occurs again, then you should be entitled to a replacement or refund.

- See more at: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/faulty-goods#sthash.kS2AHkjX.dpuf

In the instance above the consumer can opt for a replacement or a refund. In my understanding it's the consumers choice not the resellers. As is made more clear by the expanded wording this document.
http://www.consumerhelp.ie/media/Yourrightswhenshopping1.pdf

banquo

In fairness to them now, I called them - after much trying, seem to have one phone for the whole of Ireland - and they were super good, gave me a full refund.

Penny Tration

banquo wrote: »

In fairness to them now, I called them - after much trying, seem to have one phone for the whole of Ireland - and they were super good, gave me a full refund.

They DO only have one phone. :pac: the head office is tiny.

Glad they sorted you out in the end