13A socket + twin USB socket

tomdempsey200

is there a standard for usb sockets?


i'm sure MK are up to scratch anyhow..i'd have more faith in them than apple

2011

SpaceTime wrote: »

To be fair to Apple, they're actually pretty outstandingly good at providing warranty cover.

No doubt they are, but that is a separate topic.

I've had a few issues with faulty Apple products and they were absolutely top notch (including on one that was actually out of warranty)

Yes. I have seen this with a faulty iPhone. Funny thing is they never asked what charger was used

There are quite serious issues with cheap and nasty USB chargers outputting the wrong voltage or dropping voltage dramatically as the load increases.

So buy a quality make, check the specifications and you should not have these issues. The same applies to dimmer switches, transformers, sensor lights etc. etc....

You're also talking about a device that uses quite high amperage at low voltage. With bad design that can pose a fire risk.

Anything electrical could "pose a fire risk". Normally we mitigate the risk by using quality equipment, good design and by adhering to the regulations.
"High ampage" ? Have you seen how high?
The average oven, hob or cooker draws a far higher current.

Just because something's 5V (5.8V) doesn't mean that it can't do damage to the device it's powering or even cause a fire.

This applies to all socket outlets.
I would be far more concerned about larger loads drawing larger currents starting a fire.

There should be very serious standards around them.

More so than MCb's, shaver socket outlets, transformers, cooker switches?

While reputable manufacturers like MK etc will undoubtedly make top notch products

So as I have said buy a quality brand from a manufacture that you trust.
I never suggested/recommended buying "cheap & nasty". Although I have found cheap and nasty to work quite well with iPhone chargers for cars

you'll get loads of white, unbranded USB sockets on the market too that could be outputting anything if there's no standard.

Poor quality units are always available be it USB sockets, dimmer switches, MCB's, RCD's, sensor lights etc... nobody is suggesting otherwise. But to suggest that anything without the MFI logo will not meet the required standard is bizarre.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

"High ampage" ? Have you seen how high? The average oven, hob or cooker draws a far higher current.

They would cook an iphone though

SpaceTime

The average oven / hob is hard wired on pretty seriously beefy terminals. It doesn't draw up to 5amps on a very tiny connector.

The other issues is that the USB spec is constantly changing and being tweaked and pushed forward by manufactures.

USB 2.0 load unit is defined as 100mA (5 units allowed per port i.e. 500mA)
USB 3.0 load unit is defined as 150mA (6 units allowed per pot i.e. 900mA)

Charging ports which can supply 500 to 1500mA without digital negotiation.

You then have weird manufacturer-specific tweaks:

Apple's iPod and iPhone chargers indicate the available current by voltages on the D− and D+ lines. When D+ = D− = 2.0 V, the device may pull up to 500 mA. When D+ = 2.0 V and D− = 2.8 V, the device may pull up to 1 A of current.[71] When D+ = 2.8 V and D− = 2.0 V, the device may pull up to 2 A of current.

So, they're not quite as standardised as you'd think in terms out output and how the charger will behave.

USB 3.1 stretches it even further:

Wikipedia.org wrote:

The USB 3.1 standard is backward compatible with USB 3.0 and USB 2.0. Using three power profiles of those defined in the USB Power Delivery Specification, it lets devices with larger energy demands request higher currents and supply voltages from compliant hosts — up to 2 A at 5 V (for a power consumption of up to 10 W), and optionally up to 5 A at either 12 V (60 W) or 20 V (100 W)

So, depending on what specs your USB charger is made to, you can get very different results in terms of charging performance and it may not necessarily charge / fully power heavy devices like tablets. You may get 'trickle charge' only.

Have a read through : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power - USB isn't as tightly harmonised as you'd think.

2011

SpaceTime wrote: »

The average oven / hob is hard wired on pretty seriously beefy terminals.

So your point is that the terminals were designed to take the load.
I would argue that the USB plug/socket is also designed to take the load.
The unit in the OP even has over current protection.

Perhaps you can find a link to a quality (such as MK) USB socket outlet that has caused a fire due to product failure (not poor installation)?

What part of the manufacturing process do you think is beyond the likes of MK to make?

Assuming that you agree that large multinational manufactures have the ability to make these devices properly would you not accept that it is in their interest to do so? After all they have a reputation to protect.

These are "dumb" devices, not very challenging to get them right.
As you said:

reputable manufacturers like MK etc will undoubtedly make top notch products

cast_iron

So is the jist of the anti argument that this is a new technology not to trust untrustworthy manufacturers and the pro argument is that reputable manufacturers are producing these so they are fine.

It's a DC power supply built into a socket, with over current protection and a switch to kill the power when not in use - when exactly will the antis think it's okay to use? 5 years from now? 10? 20?

Bruthal

cast_iron wrote: »

when exactly will the antis think it's okay to use? 5 years from now? 10? 20?

When common sense becomes common, so probably never.

Sir Arthur Daley

When i purchased my Ipad I was told to use the charger that came with it or use a charger with the "made for Ipad" logo, if i choose to not use any other form of usb charging device to charge my Ipad that is my decision and anyone that has an issue with that can keep their opinion to themselves. I am only following the manufacturer information/instructions.
I only stated a fact that any usb charging device that does not carry the MFI logo does not Apple performance standards. If one has an issue with Apples standards take it up with Apple.
I have not criticised the Product in the opening post or the MK product and if people want to use them i dont have any issue, if they want to turn Blue Peter and start making and using their own I don't have any issue with that either.

.G.

Apple want you to use their product or a product licensed by them because they make money from it.It's that simple.

Frankly the price Apple charge for stuff I'd be expecting it never to go faulty!

2011

There is an example of the incredible power marketing!
No wonder Apple is so profitable

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

There is an example of the incredible power marketing!
No wonder Apple is so profitable

Power marketing... or just fools who have to queue to be the first to have the latest one, or have to have an apple only charger or...........

SpaceTime

All I'm saying is that I've had problems with ×××CHEAP××× no brand USB chargers in the past.

MK will undoubtedly do a good job. They've a very long standing reputation for top notch wiring accessories.

I would be concerned about 'no brand' sockets (even without USB chargers)

Apple and others use various rapid charge setups over USB cables and the USB standards have evolved a lot over a few short years to enable rapid charging of larger devices like tablets.

That's why I wouldn't be too keen on screwing the power supply into the wall.
You could end up with only slow trickle charging.

I just think a regular 230 volt socket is more useful. At least it can charge laptops etc.

I think small device power sockets that accepted Europlug (2.5 amp flat plugs that exist all over the EU and many other places) would be a huge jump forward.

You could have them easily fitted in cars, trains, busses, restaurant tables etc etc without the huge bulky 13amp sockets we have.

There's a recessed version that will not accept anything except those small, low power plugs too.

You could easily design a socket that has local 3amp fusing and only accepted this type of plug.

A one gang wall socket plate could hold 3 of them. A double plate maybe 6..

Our lack of a smaller low power plug is a bit of a pain when it comes to small electronic devices.
The UK system we use is unique in requiring huge plugs with redundant earth pins on absolutely everything.

The continental EU and US phone chargers are now absolutely tiny.

There are 3X Swiss 10-16Amp sockets.

http://www.economiesuisse.ch/de/SiteCollectionImages/Inhaltsbilder/WebNews/Steckdose_565.jpg

Designs don't have to be enormous to be safe and functional!

Sir Arthur Daley

Bruthal wrote: »

Power marketing... or just fools who have to queue to be the first to have the latest one, or have to have an apple only charger or...........

The Iphone 5s or 5c I really cant make up my mind, the 5c is cheaper but cheaper is not always best.

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

The Iphone 5s or 5c I really cant make up my mind, the 5c is cheaper but cheaper is not always best.

You are behind the times.
I started queuing for iPhone 6 already

Bruthal

WikiHow wrote: »

The Iphone 5s or 5c I really cant make up my mind, the 5c is cheaper but cheaper is not always best.

I cant make up my mind about anything, or can I?

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

You are behind the times.
I started queuing for iPhone 6 already

Looks to be Apples best Iphone so far, and wireless charging too, will it put an end to to the usb wall outlets?

Bruthal

WikiHow wrote: »

Looks to be Apples best Iphone so far, and wireless charging too, will it put an end to to the usb wall outlets?

Apple seem to be the leaders at charging alright

Stoner

they may not be the best chargers in the world, but these types of chargers are very useful in airports and also as small charging stations in student unions etc.

It's a pity that apple get to change their chargers from phone to phone and that they don't just have the same universal charger as the other phones out there, otherwise a robust lead could be installed on the units, as it stands the octopus lead/charging stations are not practical.

Guy:Incognito

My only issue is that its not 3 usb's arranged to look like a normal socket. The 2nd one linked with the 2 sockets and two usbs in the middle at the top cures the ocd and practical issues so its all good :-)

robertxxx

It's too expensive, its not even MK!

Sir Arthur Daley

robertxxx wrote: »

It's too expensive, its not even MK!

If you had to get a person to supply and install the socket it could cost €30 for socket and say €30 to install it that is €60, it would be a better option to buy 3 of the Apple 12 watt adapters for that money and have 3 usb points around your home which you can change around rather than having a fixed point where it may not be convenient all the time.
Plus the one in the OP it only supplies 1amp, it will charge say the ipad but at a very slow rate.

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

If you had to get a person to supply and install the socket it could cost €30 for socket and say €30 to install it that is €60, it would be a better option to buy 3 of the Apple 12 watt adapters

....and this will save how much?
I guess you could ask people to knock and do without a doer bell too and save another few quid :rolleyes:

People will vote with their feet, my guess is that these units (and similar) will sell like hot cakes. I think that USB sockets will become common place in the near future in new builds and rewires. There is no point in arguing about whether they will catch on or not, time will tell. If any unit is overpriced it simply won't sell.

There are many things that can be done to save few quid here and there but frequently people go for the extras. This includes:

1) under counter lighting in a kitchen
2) down lighters
3) quality 2nd fix materials such as MK
4) shaver sockets in bathrooms
5) extract fans
6) quality sensor lights such as Stinel
7) surround sound wiring


Customers can decide that they will do without all of the above, but frequently they don't. If I was paying to get my home wired I would think nothing of spending an additional €60 for a USB socket.

There will always be those that are reluctant to embrace change and new technology and there will always be those that aren't.

I know so many people that insisted that they would never have a flat screen TV and because of this they would not wire for it. Within a few short years they either had surface run cabling all over the place or they ripped the place apart to do what they should have done in the first place. There will always be a demographic like this, they are the type that have those beautiful globe lights that "weld" shut in their bathrooms, and only 2 sockets in their kitchen (this saves even more money)

Each to their own.

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

....and this will save how much?

What do you mean?

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

What do you mean?

I mean that when you said:

If you had to get a person to supply and install the socket it could cost €30 for socket and say €30 to install it that is €60, it would be a better option to buy 3 of the Apple 12 watt adapters for that money

I took this to imply that your opinion is that the customers would be reluctant to pay that much to have USB sockets installed.
Did I misinterpret you?

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

I mean that when you said:



I took this to imply that your opinion is that the customers would be reluctant to pay that much to have USB sockets installed.
Did I misinterpret you?

I feel you have, my apologies if my post was unclear, it is just my personal view that its not very practical having one fixed usb socket in the home, you are restricted to that one point. Where in a typical home would one fixed usb socket work for all aspects of living?

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

I feel you have, my apologies if my post was unclear, it is just my personal view that its not very practical having one fixed usb socket in the home, you are restricted to that one point. Where in a typical home would one fixed usb socket work for all aspects of living?

Well you could "go mad" and have more than one

I assumed that your references to the cost of buying and installing these units was an indication that you felt that people would be reluctant to "splash out" so much money.
Clearly this is not the case

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

Well you could "go mad" and have more than one

I assumed that your references to the cost of buying and installing these units was an indication that you felt that people would be reluctant to "splash out" so much money.
Clearly this is not the case

The cost factor is not the issue, i know one could fit more than one, where would you stop though?

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

The cost factor is not the issue, i know one could fit more than one, where would you stop though?

I have stopped at 2.
I have one twin MK unit in my kitchen and one of the Contactum units (as shown in the OP) beside my bed. If we are "stuck" we still have the chargers that came with the various smartphones and tables that we own.

cast_iron

2011 wrote: »

I have stopped at 2.

And you're still here to tell a tale?:eek: I thought these were inherently dangerous, not to be trusted and guaranteed to burn your house down!?

tomdempsey200

is there an option of twin socket and dual usb for a retrofit on a double box??


even with a wider footprint


they would sell