UL pro life society ???

kragmite

So I was talking to a friend of mine in clubs and societies this evening and he mentioned that the SU was approving a pro life society. I called bulls**t on this originally but he then showed me the email for their meeting next week at the clubs and socs council.

I strongly object to there being a pro life society so i was wondering if anyone here could help me stop them being setup. Surely the SU cant be supporting this in this day and age.

Also if they cant be stopped then is setting up a pro choice society an option ?

Reiver

I remember seeing some posters around last semester entitled "UL Life". Posters kept getting taking down since they were trying to associate UL with an unapproved name. They must be trying to get official recognition (and a budget) from the university. I'm all for free speech but the political nature of it and the way it'll tarnish the college has me feeling a bit queasy.

On a sidenote, could this mean if I showed there was interest for a Satanic Cattle Mutilation Club, would I be able to go to Council and get monies?:D

Popoutman

As much as I disagree with an "anti-choice" society being set up - everyone is entitled to their own opinions, just not to stuff those opinions down others' throats. If they stay quiet and do not harass students, then they can meet up at their leisure and discuss whatever anti-choice stuff they want, talk about trips to meet the anti-abortion terrorists in the USA, whatever. They are entitled to band together and form a society as long as that society abides by the rules and regs of C&S and UL, and the HEA.

The prospective new soc will definitely have to tread carefully so as not to run afoul of UL's regulations with the bringing of the college into disrepute. If they do run afoul of the regs, I won't be unhappy to see them sanctioned and restricted.

Hopefully they are classified as a political society, as that has funding restrictions, which will curtail the possibilities.
They won't get a budget for the first year of operation anyway, and I'll be voting against the funding if it comes up at C&S.

fran38

I don't accept that a pro life group is in any way political. The principles and ethos of such a group will have it's foundations in religion, the RCC in particular. I find it hypocritical of people giving out about the set up of a group which has life at it's core, and would praise the set up of a pro choice group (if one has not been set up already).
I'm not going to post further on this topic as I feel controversial topics like this will not be solved here. I'm just going to let my humble opinion speak for itself. God bless you all. Peace.

Montjuic

Nice anti catholic bigots

FionnK86

Ahh Societies don't mean that much, get over it. The majority of people in UL will ignore the society if its set up,as would the majority not care about a pro-choice, people dont care in college its not much of a big issue. Some people like to pretend its a big issue, but the big issue for the majority of students is what night they're going out this week and whos out. As an outside observer, a lot of people have "views" on issues just so they have an excuse not to really think about who they are. Its easy to form yourself or others into a stereotype, eg. "bible-bashing,pro-lifers" "peace and love, pro-choicers". But at the end of the day,it doesnt matter. People will only need to deal with it when a situation arises,for example,I have good things and bad things to say about abortion, but will hold my tongue as ive never had to live in that situation. A lot of people think they know what they'd do in that situation but they don't really know.

SamAK

As long as, like mentioned above, they don't get too big for their boots and start shoving it down people's throats, I think they are perfectly entitled to. I however, am by no means an expert and that's just my off the cuff opinion as of right now.

I make my decision based upon how I would feel if someone tried to tell me I couldn't start up a 'pro choice' group.

Chimaera

As far as C&S rules go, any group that can get 25 members together in pursuit of a common interest is entitled to set up a club or society to pursue that interest. They must follow the rules of course, but once they do that, it's unreasonable to deny them the opportunity to set up.

It's the classic case of "I despise what you're saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it!".

If they get classified as a political organisation, they are subject to statutory funding limits. IIRC the restrictions on religious societies were lifted some time ago.

@Fionnk86: You realise there are about 3000 students registered as members of clubs and societies on campus? That's a pretty significant number of people. Even allowing for the portion of those who do no more than sign up in September, C&S have a lot of bodies doing stuff. Due to general student apathy, the C&S constituency has enough clout to get referenda passed when they put their mind to it.

To those flinging accusations of 'anti-Catholic bigotry', I say people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Bigotry has been rampant within the RCC for centuries so perhaps they should tend to their own knitting before accusing others of the same.

Popoutman

Montjuic wrote: »

Nice anti catholic bigots

Hmm. I wonder who you aimed that at. If it was me - you're mistaken as nowhere in my post did I make any mention of religion.

You may simply be projecting your own inherent bigotry here, but that's hard to ascertain.

-
My issues with this soc being set up are to do with the fact it's a group of people whose entire purpose is to foist their opinion down the throats of others, and nothing else.

I'd feel the same way about an exclusively pro-choice soc as well. It's not the subject matter, it's the intent and purpose methodology that I have issue with.

IrishSkyBoxer

must be a really low standard of students these days in UL if they feel so vehemently about a group of like minded people setting up a society.

It's probably just ten of the twenty or so UL students who read boards who are bothered by this.

Ironically enough, some of you should get a life for yourselves and worry about some of the real issues in the world or at least in your University.

ethical

Society in general is so full of Sh1t with one group or other trying to get your attention,your money or whatever whether its the big cigarette and alcohol companies or some local pizza delivery company......thats what makes LIFE so interesting.....variety!!!! You do not have to believe everything they tell you!!!

ZomB13 F1Sh

Wow you think being the educated people that we are you wouldn't give in trying to censor a prospective society, I'm sure there are plenty of people on campus that don't agree with the Christian soc or any young political party but why the need to stop it? If people feel that strongly about it invite them to debate or set up your own pro choice society. But talking about getting it stopped is just ignorant. ( by the way I've no feelings on the matter, I'm just surprised young educated people would try getting something stopped like this)

Reiver

Well the way I'd see it, theres 70+ Clubs and Societies on campus already. The budget put aside for them is not going to grow exponentially in response to a new club or society being set up. I've always been glad we don't have a huge mess of political societies(FF/FG excepted. grrr) like other colleges seem to have who siphon off a good bit of a budget (hello UCC). I'd rather not have a pro choice society set up either, if they want to debate the issue, ask the Debating Society. If its non-political and will be Catholic as Fran38 said, then why not join Christian Union? Don't come to Clubs and Societies trying to get money. Where does it stop? Are we going to have a "UL Bomb Afghanistan" followed a week later by "UL Don't Bomb Afghanistan". We've been lucky enough to keep it apolitical as it is, I'd say people would rather not have a rush of lobby groups emerge everytime theres something topical in the media. Theres only a limited amount of money at the moment anyways for everyone to go round, do we really need to splinter it off for something like this that I can't see living a long and cherished life in ULSU C&S?

Clubs and Societies are about getting people who want to kayak or skydive or climb mountains or learn parkour to name a few. Or if you're a bit more sedate, read a book, debate an argument, play chess, do some charity work. Don't try and bring causes into it. A group of like-minded people wanted to set up a Dutch Gold Appreciation society a few years back as well, was it ignorant to stop them?

Sorry you feel that way IrishSkyBoxer. I guess we're just so substandard since we're not a NUI college like our more illustrious brethren, I sincerely hope you are not tarnished by your brief contact with us degenerates. Our low standard in UL is shocking apparently, I hope you don't consider studying here.

Jester252

They have every right to set up a society and more power to them. Just because you don't like a group of people you never met and their ideas doesn't mean you can stop them from having a society.

Ave Sodalis

I'm just hoping they stick to discussing it amongst themselves and allow whoever wants to join. I think it's too tender and emotional a subject for them to go recruiting and/or preaching though and I hope they don't try and stop the SU or the University from showing all the options to those who find themselves pregnant.

Jester252

Like any lobby group they more than will and should be allowed to advocate their side. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make their opinions on a matter worthless. Having them as a society is probability the best way to keep what they advocate in check. If they existed outside of CNS they won't have to follow the rules. I gather that you would not like them posting all staff and all students email with their views kinda like a Marxist group did a few years back? Also as part of CNS any poster or filers will have to be approved by the SU making its less likely that they will use shock images.

reunion

Ok I think people need to keep in mind something here; the pro-life society is open to everyone, even pro-choice people.

People are assuming that they will be similar to those extreme pro-life leaflets. Give them a chance, the Christian Union Society doesn't guilt/push their views on every non-christian, the pro-life society might be the same.

If they get too extreme; there will be a boards thread, pro-choice volunteers will be needed to become members and attempt to get pro-choice people on the committee of the pro-life society and we can run it into the ground or make it not so extreme.

Ave Sodalis

Jester252 wrote: »

Like any lobby group they more than will and should be allowed to advocate their side. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make their opinions on a matter worthless. Having them as a society is probability the best way to keep what they advocate in check. If they existed outside of CNS they won't have to follow the rules. I gather that you would not like them posting all staff and all students email with their views kinda like a Marxist group did a few years back? Also as part of CNS any poster or filers will have to be approved by the SU making its less likely that they will use shock images.

I don't think their opinion is worthless, I think their opinion is entirely up to them. Nor can I say with certainly they will try and change people's opinion on it, but I did say I hope they don't due to the sensitive nature of their society.

Jester252

sup_dude wrote: »

I don't think their opinion is worthless, I think their opinion is entirely up to them. Nor can I say with certainly they will try and change people's opinion on it, but I did say I hope they don't due to the sensitive nature of their society.

Just because its a sensitive topic doesn't mean they shouldn't try and change people opinion nor should they feel pressured into thinking that they can't. The society, like every other society, is set up by a like minded group, who will in turn air their opinion to find other like minded people. Following that logic the LGBT shouldn't try and change people opinion on gay marriage or Christen union shouldn't try and recruit people because they might not be Christen. Debate society will be trouble if people shouldn't discuss and persuade others on sensitive topics.

Ave Sodalis

Jester252 wrote: »

Just because its a sensitive topic doesn't mean they shouldn't try and change people opinion nor should they feel pressured into thinking that they can't. The society, like every other society, is set up by a like minded group, who will in turn air their opinion to find other like minded people. Following that logic the LGBT shouldn't try and change people opinion on gay marriage or Christen union shouldn't try and recruit people because they might not be Christen. Debate society will be trouble if people shouldn't discuss and persuade others on sensitive topics.

Your logic here is not quite adding up. There is a difference between letting people know you exist and changing peoples minds. It would be more like the LGBT trying to make people gay or the Christian Society trying to convert people to their religion*. The very purpose of the Debate Soc is for debating so the point here is moot.



*I am aware they don't, which is why I hope the pro life soc don't either.

Jester252

sup_dude wrote: »

Your logic here is not quite adding up. There is a difference between letting people know you exist and changing peoples minds. It would be more like the LGBT trying to make people gay or the Christian Society trying to convert people to their religion*. The very purpose of the Debate Soc is for debating so the point here is moot.



*I am aware they don't, which is why I hope the pro life soc don't either.

I suggest you redo your maths. Your logic is flawed. For some reason you seem to think that a pro life society will forcible stop any choice if they are allowed to try and change people's opinion

Pro lifers advocating their ideals on the campus is the same as LGBT Soc promoting same sex marriage. It is the same as Christan Soc promoting Easter. Its the same as Ultimate Frisbee playing outside the library. They would be promoting their society and their core ideal.

Ave Sodalis

Jester252 wrote: »

I suggest you redo your maths. Your logic is flawed. For some reason you seem to think that a pro life society will forcible stop any choice if they are allowed to try and change people's opinion

Pro lifers advocating their ideals on the campus is the same as LGBT Soc promoting same sex marriage. It is the same as Christan Soc promoting Easter. Its the same as Ultimate Frisbee playing outside the library. They would be promoting their society and their core ideal.

There is a huge difference between "hey, yeah, we're the ProLife Soc, we exist now so if you're ProLife too, come join us!"
and
"We're ProLife Soc, non members are disgusting people who like to murder babies and we must put a stop to it. Join our Soc, change to ProLife or a)burn forever in hell, or b) be branded a baby murderer"

The latter is what I'm hoping they don't do.
To subscribe to the ideals of ProLife, you'd have to be ProLife. To agree with same sex marriage, you don't have to be gay. None of those societies or clubs try to force themselves upon a person. What I am saying is, and what you seem to keep missing, is that although I can't say they will, I hope they don't go around campus taking the usual stance the ProLife take when trying to "convert" people which is, instead of letting people know they exist, trying to change ProChoice people. Are you saying that ProChoice have no right to their opinion? That they have no rights in saying they don't want people trying to change them? If ProChoice set up a society, I wouldn't want them out around campus trying to convert people either.

reunion

sup_dude wrote: »

To subscribe to the ideals of ProLife, you'd have to be ProLife. To agree with same sex marriage, you don't have to be gay.

A) you can be gay and be against same sex marriage (rare but possible) and you can join to learn more about what it means to be pro-life, much like a muslim can join the christian union or a straight person can join out in UL. You don't have to agree 100% with extremist pro-life

sup_dude wrote: »

None of those societies or clubs try to force themselves upon a person.

I have heard from a friend of mine that she was forced to join a club, didn't know anyone in it or even know any rules about the sport but the people cornered her at a recruitment drive and wouldn't let her leave unless she joined.

My point is, just because someone is promoting a club/society that isn't controversial doesn't mean they don't force themselves on a person.

sup_dude wrote: »

although I can't say they will, I hope they don't go around campus taking the usual stance the ProLife take when trying to "convert" people which is, instead of letting people know they exist, trying to change ProChoice people. Are you saying that ProChoice have no right to their opinion? That they have no rights in saying they don't want people trying to change them? If ProChoice set up a society, I wouldn't want them out around campus trying to convert people either.

What a load of bull. When you start with I can't say they will and I'm hoping they won't do... It's obvious that you have assumed they are going to push crap on you and try to convert you and that you'd like to treat them differently.

The reality is, they probably won't and historically (take Christian Union), societies don't force their ideals on you.

Ave Sodalis

reunion wrote: »

A) you can be gay and be against same sex marriage (rare but possible) and you can join to learn more about what it means to be pro-life, much like a muslim can join the christian union or a straight person can join out in UL. You don't have to agree 100% with extremist pro-life

I never said they would be extremists and I did say that whoever wanted to join, could join if they knew it existed.

reunion wrote: »

I have heard from a friend of mine that she was forced to join a club, didn't know anyone in it or even know any rules about the sport but the people cornered her at a recruitment drive and wouldn't let her leave unless she joined.

My point is, just because someone is promoting a club/society that isn't controversial doesn't mean they don't force themselves on a person.

That shouldn't have happened

reunion wrote: »

What a load of bull. When you start with I can't say they will and I'm hoping they won't do... It's obvious that you have assumed they are going to push crap on you and try to convert you and that you'd like to treat them differently.

The reality is, they probably won't and historically (take Christian Union), societies don't force their ideals on you.

Is that obvious? Because that wasn't my intent to come across like that. When I said I can't say they will, it was because I assumed that when I said "I hope", I would end up explaining that I'm not saying they will eventually anyways. When I say I'm not saying they will and hope they don't, what I meant was exactly that.
Which is fine, and I hope these don't either. I think people here believe I have a problem with the society existing but, if you read my posts, that's not the case. I have no problem with the society nor any others. They can work away. I would say here again that I was just hoping they don't do what many ProLifers do and try to force their opinion on others but I can't say they will do it... but that seems to be taken the wrong way.

Can I just say again; I have no problem with this society existing. None, zero, ziltch. There is a small chance they will try to force their opinion on others (and this is entirely based on past experiences with prolife) and I hope they don't, because I believe everyone has a right to their own opinion and, in this topic, many of those opinion are strongly held. There is nothing more to it than that. I apologise if I didn't make myself clear on this and if it was taken the wrong.

reunion

sup_dude wrote: »

Can I just say again; I have no problem with this society existing. None, zero, ziltch. There is a small chance they will try to force their opinion on others (and this is entirely based on past experiences with prolife) and I hope they don't, because I believe everyone has a right to their own opinion and, in this topic, many of those opinion are strongly held. There is nothing more to it than that. I apologise if I didn't make myself clear on this and if it was taken the wrong.

it sounded like you were trying to make it a big deal that they could do something.

I suggest the following:

reunion wrote: »

If they get too extreme; there will be a boards thread, pro-choice volunteers will be needed to become members and attempt to get pro-choice people on the committee of the pro-life society and we can run it into the ground or make it not so extreme.

Jester252

sup_dude wrote: »

There is a huge difference between "hey, yeah, we're the ProLife Soc, we exist now so if you're ProLife too, come join us!"
and
"We're ProLife Soc, non members are disgusting people who like to murder babies and we must put a stop to it. Join our Soc, change to ProLife or a)burn forever in hell, or b) be branded a baby murderer"
The latter is what I'm hoping they don't do.

Both are still promotion themselves and their ideals. If Out in UL can try and change someone's opinion on gay marriage why can Prolife try and change someone opinion on abortion?
Nice jumping to a conclusion btw.

To subscribe to the ideals of ProLife, you'd have to be ProLife. To agree with same sex marriage, you don't have to be gay.

You don't have to be prolife to join, you could be open, undecided or pro choice.

None of those societies or clubs try to force themselves upon a person. What I am saying is, and what you seem to keep missing, is that although I can't say they will, I hope they don't go around campus taking the usual stance the ProLife take when trying to "convert" people which is, instead of letting people know they exist, trying to change ProChoice people.

I guess you never been to a recruitment drive? For a society that has just been set up you seem to be making a lot of jumps to what they plan on doing

Are you saying that ProChoice have no right to their opinion? That they have no rights in saying they don't want people trying to change them? If ProChoice set up a society, I wouldn't want them out around campus trying to convert people either.

That has to be the best jump in your whole post. ProChoice has every right to set up a society and try to pormote their ideals, just like ProLife, just like Out in UL, just like Forum soc etc.

If you don't what them out talking about a sensitive subject someone should tell medical soc not to do anything to promote mental health.

Ave Sodalis

Jester252 wrote: »

Both are still promotion themselves and their ideals. If Out in UL can try and change someone's opinion on gay marriage why can Prolife try and change someone opinion on abortion?
Nice jumping to a conclusion btw.

Gay marriage affects gay people. ProLife affects other people. However, I am not getting into the pros and cons of prolife vs prochoice itself.

Jester252 wrote: »

You don't have to be prolife to join, you could be open, undecided or pro choice.

I didn't say you had to be? It's not about joining. People can join if they want, whoever can join.

Jester252 wrote: »

I guess you never been to a recruitment drive? For a society that has just been set up you seem to be making a lot of jumps to what they plan on doing

I've been apart of a recruitment drive. I don't see your point...

Jester252 wrote: »

That has to be the best jump in your whole post. ProChoice has every right to set up a society and try to pormote their ideals, just like ProLife, just like Out in UL, just like Forum soc etc.

If you don't what them out talking about a sensitive subject someone should tell medical soc not to do anything to promote mental health.

I didn't say they shouldn't set up a society:

sup_dude wrote: »

Can I just say again; I have no problem with this society existing. None, zero, ziltch. There is a small chance they will try to force their opinion on others (and this is entirely based on past experiences with prolife) and I hope they don't, because I believe everyone has a right to their own opinion and, in this topic, many of those opinion are strongly held. There is nothing more to it than that. I apologise if I didn't make myself clear on this and if it was taken the wrong.

They can talk away amongst themselves. They can let people know they exist. I don't have a problem with the society. I would have a problem if, on the off chance, they might try to force their opinion. There is a huge difference in promoting mental health and forcing prolife opinion or any opinion on people.

Jester252

sup_dude wrote: »

Gay marriage affects gay people. ProLife affects other people. However, I am not getting into the pros and cons of prolife vs prochoice itself.

Gay marriage affects other people too.

I didn't say you had to be? It's not about joining. People can join if they want, whoever can join.

That what is it about? You don't have to be Prolife to support some of their ideas. Undecided or open people might think both sides have good ideas

I've been apart of a recruitment drive. I don't see your point...

Pushy Clubs and Soc trying to recruit new member, some of them who might not be 100% about what the club or soc is about. Something you don't what this soc to do.

I didn't say they shouldn't set up a society:

Than why do you have an issue with Prolife recruiting or promoting?

They can talk away amongst themselves. They can let people know they exist. I don't have a problem with the society. I would have a problem if, on the off chance, they might try to force their opinion. There is a huge difference in promoting mental health and forcing prolife opinion or any opinion on people.

You love jumping to the worst case possible. The soc won't be "forcing" their opinion as no soc can. They can promote their opinion, they can chanllage other and try to change other opinion. Just like every other club and sociality

reunion

Rather than jump back into a repetitive conversation

Did these guys actually get the ok from C&S council last night? They aren't listed on the ulwolves site.

Can someone find information about them? What did they submit to the exec? etc.

Ginge Young

reunion wrote: »

Rather than jump back into a repetitive conversation

Did these guys actually get the ok from C&S council last night? They aren't listed on the ulwolves site.

Can someone find information about them? What did they submit to the exec? etc.

They did not attend C&S Council last night. From what I have heard they gave apologies the night before? Not quite sure on that though.

They are listed on the wolves site as the Life Society. They are evidently tackling the issue of euthanasia too, which personally in my opinion is a completely and utterly separate issue, granted they all concern 'life'.

reunion

Ginge Young wrote: »

They did not attend C&S Council last night. From what I have heard they gave apologies the night before? Not quite sure on that though.

They are listed on the wolves site as the Life Society. They are evidently tackling the issue of euthanasia too, which personally in my opinion is a completely and utterly separate issue, granted they all concern 'life'.

HA so really this thread should be UL Life society.

I thought last night was them wanting to be a society? Surely they have to be there for that to happen?

They don't have a constitution yet or at least the server is saying I'm forbidden to see it.

I wish them well and I hope they don't go too denfensive of the unborn (words from their summary on the wolves site)