**Setanta Insurance**

leitrim1

Pretzill wrote: »

Strange that similar story here claimed full responsibility the final settlement no injuries was eye watering - But perhaps that the case with all insurance claims - I don't know - first ever claim - so had no experience of what to expect.

Hi Pretzill

I'm not with you. Can you expand ?

Pretzill

leitrim1 wrote: »

Hi Pretzill

I'm not with you. Can you expand ?

Just that after a crash I was stunned by the final amount of the settlement for the other party - now obviously setanta footed the bill - and covered the losses to both parties - our claim was circa 4k (covering the vehicle loss right off) other party was almost ten times that - at the end of the day we were just relieved it was dealt with - thought the settlement was rather high though.

leitrim1

Pretzill wrote: »

Just that after a crash I was stunned by the final amount of the settlement for the other party - now obviously setanta footed the bill - and covered the losses to both parties - our claim was circa 4k (covering the vehicle loss right off) other party was almost ten times that - at the end of the day we were just relieved it was dealt with - thought the settlement was rather high though.

With you now.

Yep that's true. In our case where there could have been a minor settlement you would think they would have grabbed the opportunity. We even offered to pay it ourselves and not to bother them at all but seemingly they wanted to be involved. We regret not just paying it ourselves as it is causing endless grief as it now has to be disclosed while getting all quotes.

Henry Ford III

Coleman Slawski wrote: »

All brokers would have professional indemnity insurance anyway which is there to cover themselves however there isnt a hope it would come to that anyway...

A PI claim is pretty catastrophic as regards getting future cover, and besides a hefty excess is normal on such policies - several thousand € normally.

oldyouth

An insurance broker couldn't be held liable for trading with a licenced insurer, particularly when it would have no access to the sensitive financial information of that insurer.

Setanta announced a run off of it's business some months ago and that is a regular occurrence in Ireland. For any broker to start telling it's clients to immediately cancel their policies mid-term, could have opened them up to claims of defamation.

thehippychippy

I tried to contact my brokers yesterday and got a recorded message not verbatim but along the lines of " because we're inundated with inquiry's right now we can't answer your call, we're trying to sort this out so leave your name, number and email address and we'll contact you regards cover or check our blog for updates." Nobody answering the phone this morning and can't find their blog so don't know if I'm still covered or not. Have a load of timber to pick up to keep me busy over the weekend too!

punisher5112

From what they are saying cover is gone.

TrailerBob

Just spoke with my broker, and my commercial van policy is valid until Tuesday anyway. He's trying to get a company to take the business at short notice but not the best weekend for that...

thehippychippy

thehippychippy wrote: »

I tried to contact my brokers yesterday and got a recorded message not verbatim but along the lines of " because we're inundated with inquiry's right now we can't answer your call, we're trying to sort this out so leave your name, number and email address and we'll contact you regards cover or check our blog for updates." Nobody answering the phone this morning and can't find their blog so don't know if I'm still covered or not. Have a load of timber to pick up to keep me busy over the weekend too!

Got through to my broker and he said I'm still covered, they have emergency insurance with liberty insurance so nothing to worry about at the moment, tell be in contact with me next week re future cover

Henry Ford III

oldyouth wrote: »

An insurance broker couldn't be held liable for trading with a licenced insurer, particularly when it would have no access to the sensitive financial information of that insurer.

Setanta announced a run off of it's business some months ago and that is a regular occurrence in Ireland. For any broker to start telling it's clients to immediately cancel their policies mid-term, could have opened them up to claims of defamation.

That's incorrect I reckon.

My recent motor renewal certainly mentioned choice of insurer and claims paying ability.

If someone suggests that a business is likely fold, and it then folds, means they were correct. That therefore can't be defamatory.

smokey20

Henry Ford III wrote: »

That's incorrect I reckon.

My recent motor renewal certainly mentioned choice of insurer and claims paying ability.

If someone suggests that a business is likely fold, and it then folds, means they were correct. That therefore can't be defamatory.

Oldyouth's comment is correct I reckon.

And if someone suggests a business is "likely" to fold and said business does not fold, it is "likely" that the person/business who suggested such defamatory comments will face defamatory litigation proceedings.

Best practice is not to suggest such things in the first place.

passremarkable

Funny set up was setanta by the sounds of it, take on higher riskier policy holders for low premiums and expect to survive ... Never going to work

Brutal business model...

Was always coming

Henry Ford III

smokey20 wrote: »

Oldyouth's comment is correct I reckon.

And if someone suggests a business is "likely" to fold and said business does not fold, it is "likely" that the person/business who suggested such defamatory comments will face defamatory litigation proceedings.

Best practice is not to suggest such things in the first place.

Best practice would have been to arrange alternative cover, and a refund of remainder of the premium from Setanta surely?

Builderfromhell

I was thinking of all the Setanta (un-insured) drivers who will be travelling this weekend, a weekend where statistically people are more likely to have an accident. We could see the first court case for someone getting prosecuted for not being insured owing to Setanta's collapse.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

djimi

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I was thinking of all the Setanta (un-insured) drivers who will be travelling this weekend, a weekend where statistically people are more likely to have an accident. We could see the first court case for someone getting prosecuted for not being insured owing to Setanta's collapse.

It would be interesting to see how it is played out, but I would think that unless the insurer or broker wrote to the customer to formally cancel their policy then I dont see how the customer could be prosecuted for driving uninsured.

To be perfectly honest, the only reason I know about this is because I read this forum. I dont listen to national radio and I dont read Irish newspapers. I know Im probably in the minority, but its entirely that Setanta customers out there do not know the score.

smokey20

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Best practice would have been to arrange alternative cover, and a refund of remainder of the premium from Setanta surely?

Best practice for an insurance broker is to offer their clients the most competitive quotation, with the correct cover from a reputable, licensed and regulated insurance company.

There is nothing in this Setanta fiasco to assume that insurance brokers were not acting ethically and with best intentions at all times...

Iansheridan

Just to confirm, insuremyvan.ie will be open all open all weekend. 01-6606900

Mc Love

thehippychippy wrote: »

Got through to my broker and he said I'm still covered, they have emergency insurance with liberty insurance so nothing to worry about at the moment, tell be in contact with me next week re future cover

Just got a text this morning from my broker saying Liberty will be covering my policy until the 25th April

smokey20

Mc Love wrote: »

Just got a text this morning from my broker saying Liberty will be covering my policy until the 25th April

That is very decent of Liberty to be fair.

I believe other insurers will be doing likewise for other brokers clients.

visual

passremarkable wrote: »

Funny set up was setanta by the sounds of it, take on higher riskier policy holders for low premiums and expect to survive ... Never going to work

Brutal business model...

Was always coming

is this a fact or opinion ?
Insurance companies aren't getting by, by the skin of their teeth. it's a very lucrative market with good profit margin.
I guess it was aready in trouble and it wasn't big claim payouts that brought it to it's knees.

Mc Love

smokey20 wrote: »

That is very decent of Liberty to be fair.

I believe other insurers will be doing likewise for other brokers clients.

Was thinking of going to Liberty providing the price is right, although I will wait to see if I am refunded anything from my broker first.

smokey20

In my very humble opinion I feel you are very unlikely to get a refund from your broker to be honest.

Liam McPoyle

visual wrote: »

is this a fact or opinion ?
Insurance companies aren't getting by, by the skin of their teeth. it's a very lucrative market with good profit margin.
I guess it was aready in trouble and it wasn't big claim payouts that brought it to it's knees.

No, it isn't.

Most insurers have a loss ratio in excess of 80%, basically 80% + of what they are taking in is paid out on claims.

Coupled with the day to day operational costs, there isn't a whole lot of room for profits.

People do not seem to realise just how much gets paid out in claims by all insurers annually.

When you see reports of multi million payouts for catastrophic injury claims,where do you think that money comes from?

H3llR4iser

FullblownRose wrote: »

I wondered about that!

This is bonkers! I mean...does this set some kind of precedent, what if other companies go to the wall? Quinn are gone and now Setanta are gone. For something like motor insurance there should be a level of reliability and trust..?

It is a royal **** up on the part of the government/ministry of transportation/RSA.

I would be the last to jump on the "blame the gubbernment" bandwagon, as most of the times it's just an excuse people use to avoid facing their own responsibilities, but on something essential and mandatory like vehicle insurance there HAS TO BE a contingency plan in place. Insurance companies are businesses afterall, and they can and do go belly up from time to time.

Most advanced countries have legislation that prevents situations like the Setanta flop making current policies valid until their natural expiration date, independently from the insurer company status, and design alternate insurances/financial institutions that will pick up the tab should such an emergency arise; These companies will then be refunded using a fund similar to the MIBI.

Going to the media with "Customers should arrange new coverage" is an absolute joke that nobody should accept; I am frankly shocked about the absurd amount of "bending over and taking it" that people are engaging in right now, up to and including the utterly idiotic "It costed less than other companies, it was bound to fail, you were silly to get insured with them" position.

Kudos to these brokers who had emergency insurance in place even before this happened, they clearly know their business field very well and were looking much further ahead than anybody else.

Last thought: seeing the lack of legislation and total "far west" attitude of zero protection towards the motorist on the part of the Government, it is clear that paying for insurance in one yearly solution is not a very wise option. I did it last October (with Axa), will never do it again. Monthly is the way - anything happens, you cancel the DD and move on.

Henry Ford III

smokey20 wrote: »

Best practice for an insurance broker is to offer their clients the most competitive quotation, with the correct cover from a reputable, licensed and regulated insurance company.

There is nothing in this Setanta fiasco to assume that insurance brokers were not acting ethically and with best intentions at all times...

You forgot to include financially stable.

What possible service or benefit is there in placing business and clients premiums with a company that's financially unsound?

Henry Ford III

http://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/processes/consumer-protection-code/Documents/Consumer%20Protection%20Code%202012.pdf

Well worth a read. It mentions due diligence. If any insurer announces it's closing for new business questions should be asked.

If, as has happened here, the insurer folds and the client is left forking out additional premiums I'd certainly be asking the intermediary why they didn't act beforehand.

No Pants

Any chance of another levy, similar to PMPA & Quinn?

smokey20

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You forgot to include financially stable.

What possible service or benefit is there in placing business and clients premiums with a company that's financially unsound?

True, however I was not aware (and couldn't be bothered looking further in to it) there was any prior knowledge that Setanta were not financially stable as to not be able to honour claims on existing policies. The fact they stopped taking on new policies and were not offering renewals does not point to them not have reserves to cover current or future claims on policies they are running down.

All joking aside, yes, with the announcement a number of months ago that Setanta were running down the policies they have, not offering renewals, nor taking new business, brokers holding a book of Setanta business should have had a contingency plan in place, should this (prior to news breaking yesterday) very unlikely scenario occur.... However, as posted by someone a few posts back, some brokers have arranged temporary cover with Liberty and I know of another broker that has arranged temporary cover with Zurich, so this might lead me to think that indeed some brokers did have a contingency plan in place.

Ogham

All policies are still valid - but obviously less chance of getting a full payout on a claim.
There is an Insurance Compensation Fund that could be used - but it looks like max payout from that is 65% and not for business customers.

See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/what-happens-if-you-are-affected-by-setanta-insurance-collapse.html

Also says there might be a chance of getting refunds if you paid by credit/debit card from your card provder via chargeback.