**Setanta Insurance**

mercfisher

peteb2 wrote: »

There is a distinction between your language and how its interpreted. Sold a policy = someone calls you up looking for a quote for a new policy and you SELL them Setanta.

Offer renewal does not equal selling a policy.

I haven't seen a judge remind anyone of anything. Have you?

As I said, Central Bank have already said that any money for anything up until Setanta went into liquidation - even two days before - belongs to the liquidator. So anyone that refunds premiums, well that is between them and the central bank and they are running the chance of paying out on the double".

Pete you are not making sense, there are loads of people claiming against hard nosed brokers in the small claims court, the sensible and honest brokers are refunding their customers in their droves Pete and you know this, they may well have to pay on the double but its not the customers fault you know.

mercfisher

peteb2 wrote: »

I'm sure they would. Its already been discussed ad nauseum that beyond the moral outrage of policy holders, brokers have no liability here.

My Broker advised me that Setanta was the best policy for my needs a whole week after the Setanta press release that they stated Setanta were stopping any new policies and new renewals...so this is where the LIABILITY lies, the professional broker told me to take a policy out with a company that didn't want to continue trading in fact it was in a Run Off situation when I paid my premium.

Now can you see where the liability lies ?

peteb2

mercfisher wrote: »

Pete you are not making sense, there are loads of people claiming against hard nosed brokers in the small claims court, the sensible and honest brokers are refunding their customers in their droves Pete and you know this, they may well have to pay on the double but its not the customers fault you know.

Nor is it the brokers fault. I havent heard of anyone in the small claims court. But where's your evidence to back it?

peteb2

mercfisher wrote: »

My Broker advised me that Setanta was the best policy for my needs a whole week after the Setanta press release that they stated Setanta were stopping any new policies and new renewals...so this is where the LIABILITY lies, the professional broker told me to take a policy out with a company that didn't want to continue trading in fact it was in a Run Off situation when I paid my premium.

Now can you see where the liability lies ?

No. And for the fourth time this week - orderly withdrawal of the market.

A broker doesn't have access to the inner financials of an insurer.

mercfisher

I Informed my broker that I was going down the small claims court and I know of two others with the same broker and all of us got full refunds Pete, and yes Pete when the Insurer tells you that he is in trouble he probably means it, did you think Setanta were joking when they said they were withdrawing and didn't want new policies sold or no renewals ? it certainly isn't a case of carry on regardless like some brokers did!

peteb2

mercfisher wrote: »

I Informed my broker that I was going down the small claims court and I know of two others with the same broker and all of us got full refunds Pete, and yes Pete when the Insurer tells you that he is in trouble he probably means it, did you think Setanta were joking when they said they were withdrawing and didn't want new policies sold or no renewals ? it certainly isn't a case of carry on regardless like some brokers did!

Sorry merc, whats your occupation? Do you understand how insurance works? A number of underwriting agencies change underwriters all the time, you realise that merc, right? Kennco, Wrightway, 123.ie before rsa owned them. Oh actually that's the best example. Zurich used to write 123's house insurance but they the lost their shirt on it and pulled out from writing their business. Didnt mean they were going bust. They just stopped that line of business.

panorton

I tried dealing with my broker but he just stalled me. So off I went to the District Court clerk this morning with my small claims court form. I'm not sure how ling this takes but I'll keep you informed. My renewal date was 18th Feb that's 24 days after Setanta ceased trading.

peteb2

No Setanta only ceased to trade from 16th April following an EGM where they handed their licence back to the Maltese Government. Just for the purpose of being factually correct (before anyone weighs in with something silly to say).

mercfisher

panorton wrote: »

I tried dealing with my broker but he just stalled me. So off I went to the District Court clerk this morning with my small claims court form. I'm not sure how ling this takes but I'll keep you informed. My renewal date was 18th Feb that's 24 days after Setanta ceased trading.

Best of luck Panorton, I'm sure the broker will start to see since just like mine did

mercfisher

peteb2 wrote: »

No Setanta only ceased to trade from 16th April following an EGM where they handed their licence back to the Maltese Government. Just for the purpose of being factually correct (before anyone weighs in with something silly to say).

Pete did you ever see the document that Setanta posted to it's Irish brokers.

Here it is again and have a good read of it please and check the date it is 27th Jan 2014 ....ceased means stopped.

Important Announcement from Setanta Insurance
Posted: 27/01/14
Setanta Insurance Company Limited Announcement
It is with sincere regret that we have to inform you that Setanta Insurance Company Limited has ceased writing new business and issuing further renewals with effect from close of business Friday 24 January 2014. The company has appointed Heritage Insurance Management (Malta) Limited to undertake the run-off process and has advised the Malta Financial Services Authority accordingly.
The offices of Setanta Insurance Services Limited in Dublin will remain open to handle all existing and any future claims arising from time on risk and also assist with any queries you may have in relation to this development. Setanta Insurance Services Limited contact details remain the same and you can communicate with them in the usual way.
As indicated above, Setanta Insurance Services Limited will not be inviting renewal however it will maintain cover on all existing policies to expiry of their current term. Renewal pack documentaion will be issued in the normal way to ensure that you receive the necessary policyholder documents to allow you to re-broke these policies and place them with an alternative insurance provider.
Mid-term alterations on existing policies will be handled as normal, subject to standard Setanta Insurance Company acceptance criteria.
It is neseccary in accordance with the law, that policy holder who hold a policy with Setanta Insurance Services Limited are advised accordingly and in this respect attached is a communication which you are asked to send to every policy holder on your books.
Should you wish to take matters up beyond Setanta Insurance Services Limited or Setanta Insurance Company Limited, both the Malta Financial Services Authority on +356 2548 5700 and Heritage Insurance Management (Malta) Limited on +356 2258

mercfisher

panorton wrote: »

I tried dealing with my broker but he just stalled me. So off I went to the District Court clerk this morning with my small claims court form. I'm not sure how ling this takes but I'll keep you informed. My renewal date was 18th Feb that's 24 days after Setanta ceased trading.

Panorton I've just posted the document sent to all Irish Brokers you may have it already, its fairly self explanatory, if you need anything let me know

peteb2

Seen it already thanks. Nothing there says that they ceased to trade. Just ceased or for you Merc, "stopped" writing new policies and issuing further renewals. They still had an existing book of business that would have needed to be serviced - see the first line of the second paragraph you posted.

mercfisher

No argument there, all policies issued up to 24th Jan were still valid, that is clear, its after this date that it CEASED that is what they said to you Pete.

Setanta told brokers to seek alternative insurance and place insurance elsewhere with immediate effect see below so why didn't they do it Pete its simple GREED the commission payments from Setanta were too eye watering to turn down.

Well the brokers will have to refund the premiums now.

This is the instruction below from Setanta on 27th Jan to Irish brokers.

Renewal pack documentaion will be issued in the normal way to ensure that you receive the necessary policyholder documents to allow you to re-broke these policies and place them with an alternative insurance provider.

peteb2

mercfisher wrote: »

No argument there, all policies issued up to 24th Jan were still valid, that is clear, its after this date that it CEASED that is what they said to you Pete.

Setanta told brokers to seek alternative insurance and place insurance elsewhere with immediate effect see below so why didn't they do it Pete its simple GREED the commission payments from Setanta were too eye watering to turn down.

Well the brokers will have to refund the premiums now.

This is the instruction below from Setanta on 27th Jan to Irish brokers.

Renewal pack documentaion will be issued in the normal way to ensure that you receive the necessary policyholder documents to allow you to re-broke these policies and place them with an alternative insurance provider.

Just going around in circles here Mercfisher. When you learn how the insurance business of issuing renewals works as opposed to rallying a lobby group come back and we'll have a proper grown up conversation. but at the moment you are just fixated on your own interpretation of things.

mercfisher

My apologies to people reading the posts but I'm trying to keep you informed of the work that I am doing to unravel the sequence of Setanta events and at the same time allow the brokers their side of the argument to be fair.

So No I'm not going around in circles at all here,in fact I just got hold of the end of the rope I reckon ...by the way I know the Insurance business fairly well it's the behavior of some brokers that I can't figure out...but I will ...

IMPORTANT

Has anyone else heard or can it be confirmed that the Maltese Financial Services Regulator instructed Setanta to cease trading due to lack of funds on 24th January (same as Irish Regulator and Quinn). It is therefore not true at all that Setanta decided on its own that it might withdraw in an orderly manner in a run off situation as brokers like to refer to it as.

If this is true and I believe that it is then some brokers are guilty of professional negligence at best and fraud at worst, time will tell but I'm getting suspicious and think I am on the right track now.

Lukas Bortel of the European Commission with responsibility for Insurance and Pensions in Brussels is the gentleman who can answer us apparently, anyone know him lads ? only joking a call has gone in to him already we will know soon and Ill keep you posted

mercfisher

The Pontiac wrote: »

Anyone get their No Claims Letter yet from Setanta?

Yes Pontiac it has come but from my Honest Broker (roll of eyes) not Setanta liquidators...oddly enough It may have been sent by liquidator to the broker and onto me , no matter I have it now anyway

peteb2

by the way I know the Insurance business fairly well it's the behavior of some brokers that I can't figure out...but I will ...

Really? Because nothing you have posted over 14 pages has given any indication to insurance professionals that frequent boards that you do.

Has anyone else heard or can it be confirmed that the Maltese Financial Services Regulator instructed Setanta to cease trading due to lack of funds on 24th January (same as Irish Regulator and Quinn). It is therefore not true at all that Setanta decided on its own that it might withdraw in an orderly manner in a run off situation as brokers like to refer to it as.

Your usual work of fiction! You have asked a question and then gone onto to suppose an answer??

If this is true and I believe that it is then some brokers are guilty of professional negligence at best and fraud at worst, time will tell but I'm getting suspicious and think I am on the right track now

I think you are straying into a libelous area.Also there is a forum for conspiracies. Maybe you should head to those parts now.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

peteb2

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Someone is taking things far too personally.

Yep that Mercfisher has some serious issues

panorton

This thread has descended into a personal argument between two members. I’m not sure why it’s got so hot.

peteb2

panorton wrote: »

This thread has descended into a personal argument between two members. I’m not sure why it’s got so hot.

It hasn't really. I just stick around to make sure it remains factual.

djimi

Its descended into one members word against anothers, which to be honest isnt helping anyone really.

peteb2

djimi wrote: »

Its descended into one members word against anothers, which to be honest isnt helping anyone really.

Honestly its not my word against anything. I'm just giving a brokers interpretation and making sure the rest stay honest and don't stray.

djimi

peteb2 wrote: »

Honestly its not my word against anything. I'm just giving a brokers interpretation and making sure the rest stay honest and don't stray.

You havent really provided anything more than your word to back any of what you say up. The last few pages have largely been a back and forth of one posters word against anothers.

peteb2

what do I need to back up? How brokers work? That's what my words are for. I can't point you to a procedure manual.

peteb2

Mercfisher hasnt words on this. He's just posting statements from Setanta, interpreting what he thinks they should mean. And then veering off into beaten track of conspiracies.

mercfisher

Here is a fact that nobody can deny

Its from the EUROPEAN COMMISSION
Directorate General Internal Market and Services
FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS
Insurance and pensions
Head of Unit
Mr. Lukas Bortel
Commission européenne/Europese Commissie, 1049 Bruxelles/Brussel, BELGIQUE/BELGIÉ - Tel. +32 22991111

In answer to my questions about the sequence of events at Setanta, below paragraph is a direct extract from the European Commission in his own words, he is the gentleman charged with investigating Setanta and its ultimate failure.

The Maltese authorities informed the Commission that Setanta had been directed on the
24 January 2014 to cease writing insurance, including the renewal of existing business
with effect from close of business of 24 January 2014.
The Commission's Services are in contact with the Maltese and Irish authorities. The
collapse of Setanta currently appears to be caused by a failure of Setanta to comply with
prudential requirements.

So from above it is now clear and a fact that
A) Maltese government stopped Setanta on 24th Jan as was always stated by me.
No Insurance ought to have been underwritten after 24th Jan
C) No orderly run off or shut down was in place by Setanta because they had been directed to cease (stop) underwriting insurance

If anybody has any questions please contact the European Commission directly as I think I've done my bit !

peteb2

Why don't you ask him specifically whether it was in order to stand over renewals that were issued prior to 24th January. Because that is what the crux of your argument is.

mercfisher

Come on please Pete please ,,,read what the Commissioner said they were directed to cease writing insurance, or renewals, cease means stop in insurance terms.

again what the commissioner said is below

The Maltese authorities informed the Commission that Setanta had been directed on the
24 January 2014 to cease writing insurance, including the renewal of existing business
with effect from close of business of 24 January 2014.

Get your refunds from the brokers

If anyone wants the full letter for solicitors or Small Claims let me know

Liam McPoyle

Im not sure what ye two are arguing about, its pages of nonsensical back and forthing.



The facts are pretty simple.

In January Setanta advised they would not write any new business and would not renew any policies.

They advised that any policies sold or renewed prior to that would be honored.

In mid April it was announced that any existing Setanta customers should seek insurance elsewhere as their policies were in danger of not been valid.

In May it was announced all Setanta policies would be cancelled.

If an insurance broker sold a policy after the announcement in January then they should refund the customers in full, if they are refusing then Id be advising customers to pursue them through the small claims court.

If the insurance broker sold or renewed policies prior to the Setanta announcement then its tough shyt Paddy for the customers, they have no recourse.

It really is that simple.