Bike fit -My story

codie

Just thought I throw this up just to make people aware.I won't mention the shop in question and I suppose if I tell all the story some people would guess the shop so some details I will leave.I have found them helpful in any dealings but since my cleat fitting I just cannot deal with them.
We all know that good advise is go for a bike fit.Thats what I did .I purchased a nice bike from a bike shop and asked for a bike fit which I got.I was measured up via measuring machine by one of the staff and bike put on a trainer etc.Then bike went down to workshop to check everything and I upgraded the wheels and I went and got lost for an hour.
Came back and was told bike was set up spot on for me so away I went happy out delighted with myself full of eager ,couldn't wait to get it out on the road.
That was in 2011 and I did a lot of KM's Now I didn't over do it too soon, done a good few sportives and then done the sky etape followed by another local sportive the following week 120k..Then my knee started getting sore and the more I rode the worse it got ,Eventually knee got so sore I couldn't do whole pile with it so make a long story short I ended up having key hole surgery.
So I decided before I went back on the saddle proper that I should get a cleat fitting so back to the same shop and the same member of staff.He put bike on a trainer and I sat up.First thing he said was the saddle is way too low for you it has to come up almost an inch.
Had the cleat fitting and I said nothing to him that day,maybe I should of had but thinking to myself that day was there any point.Now my knee was good for 7-8 months but when I really went for to go up the next level of training knee was under pressure again.I bike on my own now as I have to stay away from anything too steep and I can pick my own route but about 40-50 km mainly flat is my max now but I will do ROK.
Now I am not blaming the shop for my knee but at the same time it probably didn't help.I didn't touch the seatpost or saddle ever myself but having been I suppose novicey I trusted that shop and that the bike was set up properly for me.It stays in the back of my mind though was it their fault or not that my knee is now half goosed.I have researched bike fitting ever since and I'll never know but just beware if you are going for a bike fit.My advise would be go for a fit by all means but research it yourself too from whatever source you can.If I researched it earlier than I did I might of spotted the saddle was too low for me.

Lumen

I'm not really sure what you're saying.

Did bad bike fit cause you an injury that required keyhole surgery?

Is the complaint about inconsistency of saddle height recommendations?

codie

Lumen wrote: »

I'm not really sure what you're saying.

Did bad bike fit cause you an injury that required keyhole surgery?

Is the complaint about inconsistency of saddle height recommendations?

not saying it caused it but I had never had a knee issue before .Maybe cycling with the saddle at an improper height brought the weakness out that I never knew I had and I'm not really complaining just telling my what happened me maybe someone will learn from it.But certainly your right with the inconsistency of saddle height recommendations

Bikerbhoy

codie wrote: »

the more I rode the worse it got

There's your problem....

stirwell

Call me old fashioned but did you build up the km's slowly? ?

Zyzz

Why did you keep cycling if the knee pain got worse over time..

shaka

When You went climbing were you spinning or grinding ?

onimpulse

codie wrote: »

I bike on my own now as I have to stay away from anything too steep and I can pick my own route but about 40-50 km mainly flat is my max now but I will do ROK.

Two things jump out at me.

1. The bike shop which you now say didn't set you up properly in the beginning is the same bike shop you trusted to change your bike position?

2. The statement above! If you can still only do 40-50km flat before your knee gets sore then the problem isn't solved & doing the ROK will only do further damage.

You need a good bike fit (by someone else!) and a good physio. I've had a lot of knee problems & my physio has really helped me "manage" it so I can still get the big miles in, climb & race. But it's all for nothing if the bike position is wrong.

12 sprocket

onimpulse wrote: »

Two things jump out at me.

1. The bike shop which you now say didn't set you up properly in the beginning is the same bike shop you trusted to change your bike position?

2. The statement above! If you can still only do 40-50km flat before your knee gets sore then the problem isn't solved & doing the ROK will only do further damage.

You need a good bike fit (by someone else!) and a good physio. I've had a lot of knee problems & my physio has really helped me "manage" it so I can still get the big miles in, climb & race. But it's all for nothing if the bike position is wrong.

Why in gods name can people not just set up their own bike? Its part of being a bike rider.

Inquitus

12 sprocket wrote: »

Why in gods name can people not just set up their own bike? Its part of being a bike rider.

But you are not a bike rider when you start out first, and a bad setup can do you harm.

If I am a novice and I am getting knee pain, or back pain or whatever pain, how am I supposed to deduce the solution? I am into my fourth year on the bike and the two best things I have done to increase my comfort on the bike are #1 a bike fit and #2 core strength work.

Beasty

12 sprocket wrote: »

Why in gods name can people not just set up their own bike? Its part of being a bike rider.

Well maybe it's quite straightforward for more experienced riders, but many of us appreciate someone else looking at position and hopefully making helpful suggestions, particularly if there are some niggles. Also as we age our bodies change (some of us get shorter and others may suffer from back problems for example), so it can be worth getting a re-check every few years

I had a fit done perhaps 3-4 years ago, but since then have set up my own bikes based on the information I received them, but when it came to the TT bike I've experimented a bit with saddle position and aerobar height

Then a few weeks ago I had the chance to get a quick checkover from one of the top UK coaches - first thing he asked was who had set up the cleats, Rather tentatively I said me, to which he retorted that they were spot on. He then looked at me on the bike and made 2 suggestions - saddle up 5mm, and bars down 5mm (it was my pursuit bike). I'll try it and see whether it improves things - if not I'll go back to how it was ...

onimpulse

12 sprocket wrote: »

Why in gods name can people not just set up their own bike? Its part of being a bike rider.

Did you read the first post or not? OP said he was a complete novice.

What's with the attitude by the way - no harm in people getting set up properly to begin.

codie

onimpulse wrote: »

Two things jump out at me.

1. The bike shop which you now say didn't set you up properly in the beginning is the same bike shop you trusted to change your bike position?

2. The statement above! If you can still only do 40-50km flat before your knee gets sore then the problem isn't solved & doing the ROK will only do further damage.

You need a good bike fit (by someone else!) and a good physio. I've had a lot of knee problems & my physio has really helped me "manage" it so I can still get the big miles in, climb & race. But it's all for nothing if the bike position is wrong.

1.Well I did think I was set up proper until I went back for the cleat set up.Its then the lad told me your saddle is nearly an inch too low

2.Well my knee doesn't hurt while cycling and I manage the injury fairly well.I know my limitations.I know the ROK I can do and its good to have a goal.I know that if I push myself too hard I will have problems.The ROK is a nice leisure event I can go around at my own pace.

I have an excellent physio and have been doing an exercise programme for a while now.Who can you recommend for a good bikefit ?

codie

shaka wrote: »

When You went climbing were you spinning or grinding ?

Spinning ,I rarely use the big ring .The pain at first wasn't that bad but I did stop cycling when it got worse.I built up the distance I wouldn't be foolish at all when it comes to overdoing it distance wise.

shaka

codie wrote: »

Spinning ,I rarely use the big ring .The pain at first wasn't that bad but I did stop cycling when it got worse.I built up the distance I wouldn't be foolish at all when it comes to overdoing it distance wise.

What you pushing at the back ? Feel your pain have back and knee problems myself ( no cartilage ,acl replacement) and I had a bad habit of using my quad strength to power up hills which usta inflame knee. Have a12- 28 on the back and just spin a high cadence when near anything steep.

codie

12 sprocket wrote: »

Why in gods name can people not just set up their own bike? Its part of being a bike rider.

My physio told me there was a big increase lately of lads coming in with sore knees because their shoes and cleats and bikefit aren't correct.She can't believe that they don't get a bikefit first before they put up the mileage.Not everyone is a doctor of bikefitting.

codie

shaka wrote: »

What you pushing at the back ? Feel your pain have back and knee problems myself ( no cartilage ,acl replacement) and I had a bad habit of using my quad strength to power up hills which usta inflame knee. Have a12- 28 on the back and just spin a high cadence when near anything steep.

Use an 11-28 at the back .

Mechanic365

codie wrote: »

.First thing he said was the saddle is way too low for you it has to come up almost an inch.

am if your on a fully carbon bike (seatpost and frame) then theres a possibility it slipped over time and this is what does the knees in, use the gritty paste next time to be sure

Brian?

12 sprocket wrote: »

Why in gods name can people not just set up their own bike? Its part of being a bike rider.

I don't get this attitude at all. I've done bike fits for myself and it never works out quite right. 30 minutes with someone wo knows what they're doing and it's bang on.

A proper bike fit maximises power output and comfort. Plus it prevents injury. What's the negative here?

Brian?

Mechanic365 wrote: »

am if your on a fully carbon bike (seatpost and frame) then theres a possibility it slipped over time and this is what does the knees in, use the gritty paste next time to be sure

This why I have my seat post marked with a permanent marker just in case.

12 sprocket

Brian? wrote: »

I don't get this attitude at all. I've done bike fits for myself and it never works out quite right. 30 minutes with someone wo knows what they're doing and it's bang on.

A proper bike fit maximises power output and comfort. Plus it prevents injury. What's the negative here?

I wouldn't disagree that a proper bikefit maximise power output and comfort and prevents injury. In people that have a genuine biomechanical problem a bike fit from a very experienced person and or a physio may indeed be helpful ..
My contention is that most people don't have any underlying biomechanical problems and should be able to set their own bikes up. There is so much information out there that with a small bit of effort anyone can do it.

mirrormatrix

Brian? wrote: »

A proper bike fit maximises power output and comfort. Plus it prevents injury. What's the negative here?

Negative is 100 quid (or thereabouts) for someone to adjust things that you could get right yourself with a bit of time and effort. I guess it's a bit like leaving your bike in to be serviced. Sure, it'll save you a bit of initial effort in learning how to do this stuff yourself, but you'll pay a premium for the privilege!

Took me a month or two to set my bike up right initially, making minor adjustments over time. I'm sure a bike fit is a lot of help initially, but everything you need to know is up there on the internet. End of the day, you are the only one who can judge if a bike is set up in a way that won't cause you discomfort.

In the OPs case though, it sounds like a proper bike fit would be beneficial as whatever you're doing right now is obviously not working

beauf

Are there not slightly different opinions on how exactly to get up a bike?

check_six

beauf wrote: »

Are there not slightly different opinions on how exactly to set up a bike?

I suppose there would be. I'd guess that if you were getting a sore back or sore shoulders you just may not be used to the new position, but if your knees were getting sore something is amiss with the set up. I had some problems getting my own set up right. Mainly due to not doing enough kms to check if the latest adjustment had done any good or not. I'd make a change, do 40kms, be fine, but then find the problems resurfacing on longer sportive type spins. Got everything sorted eventually, but I don't think I would have gone back out without doing some kind of adjustment after having a tough time with sore knees on a long spin.

Lumen

Bike fit in no way guarantees injury prevention in cycling, in the same way that gait analysis in no way guarantees injury prevent in running.

Many people's fit requirements change season to season.

Some people are very sensitive to bike setup, some aren't. Armstrong and Cav, to take two extreme examples.

check_six

Lumen wrote: »

Some people are very sensitive to bike setup, some aren't. Armstrong and Cav, to take two extreme examples.

What made their examples extreme? (I'm not familiar with their set up problems or lack thereof).

Lumen

check_six wrote: »

What made their examples extreme? (I'm not familiar with their set up problems or lack thereof).

Cavendish moves his up and down by centimetres at a time, Lance by millimetres.

Ferrari was supposed to have given Lance the instruction to shift his saddle height by 2mm, but maybe it was code for something else.

codie

Mechanic365 wrote: »

am if your on a fully carbon bike (seatpost and frame) then theres a possibility it slipped over time and this is what does the knees in, use the gritty paste next time to be sure

The seatpost wouldn't of slipped down at all as I had it marked.I regularly check every stud on my bikes that needs to be torqued.Well as regards having a proper bikefit as mirrormatrix suggests thats what I thought I was doing when I went for a bikefit.This is a very reputable bike shop .I am happy enough with that bike now but to of told me the saddle is almost an inch too low.As I said I have put a lot of time into researching bikefitting but at the same time I would prefer to get a bike fit from someone like BRIAN? said.

Brian?

12 sprocket wrote: »

I wouldn't disagree that a proper bikefit maximise power output and comfort and prevents injury. In people that have a genuine biomechanical problem a bike fit from a very experienced person and or a physio may indeed be helpful ..
My contention is that most people don't have any underlying biomechanical problems and should be able to set their own bikes up. There is so much information out there that with a small bit of effort anyone can do it.

If you're over 30 and work at a desk, I'd put money on you having mobility issues, making a bike fit a good idea.

As for the information available, there's almost too much of it. I can think of three different methods I've seen to work out saddle height.

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

Bike fit in no way guarantees injury prevention in cycling, in the same way that gait analysis in no way guarantees injury prevent in running

Who claimed it does? It helps prevent injury, no one can argue with that surely.

As I've said earlier, there are a lot of people walking around with mobility issues that will be exacerbated by poor bike fit.

Beasty

Brian? wrote: »

Who claimed it does? It helps prevent injury, no one can argue with that surely.

As I've said earlier, there are a lot of people walking around with mobility issues that will be exacerbated by poor bike fit.

Funnily enough I've had 4 back operations and still suffer from sciatica - like Cav though I seem to be able to move the saddle up and down, back and forth and have the bars in a variety of positions but to my recollection have never suffered an injury relating to my position on a bike (one or two from falling off it mind!), unless they were so mild they I didn't even notice them

The bike fits I have had done were firstly to see if I was way off with my position, and secondly to try and improve my TT/pursuit position, where getting it "right" makes all the difference to performance

Having said that many people clearly do notice a big difference through small changes (whereas I don't notice the difference between 165mm cranks on my track bikes and 175mm on my road bikes for example).

Now I may not be particularly mobile in my old age, but for some reason I do seem to be quite adaptable

12 sprocket

Brian? wrote: »

If you're over 30 and work at a desk, I'd put money on you having mobility issues, making a bike fit a good idea.

As for the information available, there's almost too much of it. I can think of three different methods I've seen to work out saddle height.

Some mobilty and strength training would surely be a better presciption in the first instance for the 30 year old you describe rather than a bike fit....

Beasty

12 sprocket wrote: »

Some mobilty and strength training would surely be a better presciption in the first instance for the 30 year old you describe rather than a bike fit....

Some of us will still creak when we try to stand up straight ...:D

Lumen

Brian? wrote: »

Who claimed it does?

That claim was one possible interpretation of the Joycean stream of consciousness in the OP.

bambergbike

mirrormatrix wrote: »

End of the day, you are the only one who can judge if a bike is set up in a way that won't cause you discomfort.

My bike is set up in a way that doesn't cause me discomfort NOW. But possibly also in a way that's storing up plenty of trouble for the future. I have worked around one issue (foot pain on long rides from cleats set up symetrically) - with totally asysmetric positioning of my cleats that lets me drop one hip far more than the other and get comfortable on the saddle. At the moment I'm in early middle age and not especially creaky, and I seem to be getting away with it. Once I'm in late middle age and creakier, I may seek professional advice from somebody who has the expertise I need to avoid becoming trapped in an endless cycle of finding a workaround to one issue that just triggers another, and so on ad infinitum. I'd rather not spend years fixing injuries by creating new ones. Especially if it turns out that there is a position or a set of exercises which would cause me some short-term discomfort (as a muscle imbalance works itself out) but would ultimately stop my knee wearing out prematurely or something like that.

Brian?

12 sprocket wrote: »

Some mobilty and strength training would surely be a better presciption in the first instance for the 30 year old you describe rather than a bike fit....

I'd say yes, mobility and strength training are the cure. That doesn't mean bike fit isn't important.