Home Heating Oil Mix..... 50% Diesel + 50% Kero ?

scudo2

Anybody else driven mad with this, ie Customers mixing fuel, 50/50, 60/40, 70/30 and so on with diesel and kero, it drives me bleeding mad from a servicing point of view. I tune up boiler 100% on the existing fuel, say it's 70% Diesel 30% Kero.
Two months later new driver comes out and delivers 70% kero with 30% Diesel or just 100% one type of fuel = THICK BLACK SMOKE = Shoot the service man !!!

OR oil driver comes out to give 1000lts of 50/50, puts in 500 diesel, oop's he then realises there is only room for 200 Kero, tank wasn't empty after all. = Different mix ratio

Or I know by the sulpher ( bad inefficient combustion ) build up inside the boiler since the last service that the mix of oil has been altered since it was last serviced by myself.

Mixing oil stems from when Kero was first brought on to the market 30+ years ago, it us to jam oil pumps and so it was found that if you also added diesel ( a more oily fuel ) this didn't happen, hense the mix. Or so I was told by the old oil men.

10% Kero is often added into diesel as an anti freeze.

I try to get my customers to go 100% Kero if possible, I'll even drop around and retune to Kero free of charge if they will change, = Less Smoke = Happier me = Less people trying to shoot me ( I hope )


I also find it hard to get the oil Co. to point out this to their clients, the'll sell / deliver what ever there asked for.


Are many of you guys comeing across this problem or is it only in parts of the country ?
Thanks

Dtp1979

scudo2 wrote: »

Anybody else driven mad with this, ie Customers mixing fuel, 50/50, 60/40, 70/30 and so on with diesel and kero, it drives me bleeding mad from a servicing point of view. I tune up boiler 100% on the existing fuel, say it's 70% Diesel 30% Kero.
Two months later new driver comes out and delivers 70% kero with 30% Diesel or just 100% one type of fuel = THICK BLACK SMOKE = Shoot the service man !!!

OR oil driver comes out to give 1000lts of 50/50, puts in 500 diesel, oop's he then realises there is only room for 200 Kero, tank wasn't empty after all. = Different mix ratio

Or I know by the sulpher ( bad inefficient combustion ) build up inside the boiler since the last service that the mix of oil has been altered since it was last serviced by myself.

Mixing oil stems from when Kero was first brought on to the market 30+ years ago, it us to jam oil pumps and so it was found that if you also added diesel ( a more oily fuel ) this didn't happen, hense the mix. Or so I was told by the old oil men.

10% Kero is often added into diesel as an anti freeze.

I try to get my customers to go 100% Kero if possible, I'll even drop around and retune to Kero free of charge if they will change, = Less Smoke = Happier me = Less people trying to shoot me ( I hope )


I also find it hard to get the oil Co. to point out this to their clients, the'll sell / deliver what ever there asked for.


Are many of you guys comeing across this problem or is it only in parts of the country ?
Thanks

That's the first time I've ever heard of that scudo. I'd only ever heard of mixing kero/diesel if the customer ordered it incorrectly

Outkast_IRE

I have heard It too and am also from cork.

My encounters with it are mostly older country people, farmers and the like who had access to green diesel or still have access to green diesel.

Wearb

Used to be a problem here some years ago. Caused mostly by one plumber that was having trouble with short lived oil pumps.
He couldn't be pursuaded that it wasn't necessary. He eventually stopped. I suppose if you have to replace pumps with no other explanation, it's hard to blame him.
Perhaps the danger (altering combustion characteristics) of delivering such mixtures should be made known to the oil suppliers. Perhaps through the hazchem licence renewal courses. A job for OFTEC to contact the trainers, I think.

scudo2

I often come across it. Normally when I see a bad yellowish sulphur buildup in the boiler or have to use non-manufactures settings to get it burning right on the FGA.
I know its a Cork & Kerry area thing from what I hear from the guys in those areas and the oil company's.

Just wondering about the rest of the country. A yes or a no for different would be interesting if ye can. Ta.


I use to know a German service/plumber in Scull, West Cork. He had a good vocabulary in relation to oil mixing !

corkgsxr

Its been awhile. I haven't even seen diesel in a good while

Billy Bunting

Oil used to be a good bit cheaper than Kero so most would run on oil but run a bit of Kero through it to help prevent freezing issues, only have 1 customer left who still prefers to use oil, i think the fact he's a skipper on a local trawler may have something to do with it.

jimf

I have come across a few but not intentional I find the rdb doesn't like the mix as much and can be a bit harder to get an fga im happy with what about ye

JamesM

In Dublin I've never heard of people actually ordering 50/50.
Up to about 20 years ago most burners still ran on Gas Oil. Most oil pumps could not handle Kero. 35 years ago, you had to ask for a pump with tungsten tips if you wanted to use Kero. Vaporising burners used Kero indoors. Then Myson and others designed boilers with low level flues and pressure jet burners with pumps designed for Kero. And people slowly changed over.
I retired in September and many of my older customers still used gas oil.
The only time I heard of a mix was in the early 80s, when we had some very low temps and the wax was breaking out of the gas oil and blocking oil pipes. The kero thinned it out a bit. Although hot water on the pipe and filter was an easier solution ;-)
Jim.

esox28

Hevent heard or come across that in the midlands, saying that haven't been looking out for fuel mixing, must keep an eye out thanks scudo.

scudo2

Thanks for the replys guys.

It was out of curiosity that I asked as I come across 1 or 2 a week ( as in a mix ) . Luckily they normally have the same oil man delivering and they know the usual mix + they look into the tank to see how much is required.

It's maybe only 1 every two months that suddenly soot up due to customer getting oil from different source. I have to increase oil pressure due to higher % of diesel in mix.
General I find it's the older customers who still use a mix.

If I find a boiler that has a lot more than normal yellow carbon/sulphur gunk, they got lower % of diesel resulting in burner been over aired.
I ask if they have receipts from the last few delivery and spot that it is a mix and that the ratio is not consistent.

I've had a lot of discussions with the oil Co. here and their reply is that is what the customer always got and asked for !

Thanks again.

Wearb

Its almost impossible to spot. There can be so many reasons for the FGA readings to be a little off.

Best to ask the customer if they have ordered a mixture and if they have, then explain that its not necessary.

Drivers have been known to complete a kerosene delivery with diesel, if they run out of kerosene during a delivery, (so long as it is not a vaporising burner), or vice versa.

jimf

do you drop the nozzle size as well scudo

i find it really helps when your doing the fga

scudo2

Wearb wrote: »

Its almost impossible to spot. There can be so many reasons for the FGA readings to be a little off.

Best to ask the customer if they have ordered a mixture and if they have, then explain that its not necessary.

Drivers have been known to complete a kerosene delivery with diesel, if they run out of kerosene during a delivery, (so long as it is not a vaporising burner), or vice versa.

It's not slightly different readings on the FGA, it's the amount of unexpected crap in the boiler,as the vast majority that I go back to a year or two later are spotless = good combustion.
Its not a faulty nozzle problem either as out of cuerosty I've retuned them 100% with the existing nozzle to see if that was the cause.
Luckily a lot of clients keep the oil receipts.


ps. I do replace the nozzle.

Irish Steve

We've got a gas oil boiler here, and I'm not about to change any time soon, as there's no advantage I can see, Kero is cheaper per litre delivered, but not when I then look at the Kwh per litre delivered into the house by the boiler. The other reason is that I also have a standby generator that runs on diesel, if I go kero for heating, I then will have to change the pipework for the generator and put a separate fuel tank in just for the generator, which will be a pain, as we have an underground GB tank fill pipe from roadside, to save having to reverse the tanker 50 metres off the road, and then still run out 30 metres of hose to the tank.

in 20 plus years we've never had problems with oil waxing, or lines blocking, maybe we've been lucky, we're in a bit of a frost hollow, it's still icy here when other parts of the town have thawed out. Had to replace the burner 10 years back after it was flooded, just put a replacement Riello unit in, and since then, it basically just keeps on working, with a regular clean out and service.

Wearb

There is absolutely nothing wrong with burning diesel when under proper conditions and well setup and serviced. The problems arise when it is set up at service time for pure diesel and on next delivery you get a mixture. Though having a little kero in diesel is less problematic than the other way around.

Froststop

scudo2 wrote: »

Anybody else driven mad with this, ie Customers mixing fuel, 50/50, 60/40, 70/30 and so on with diesel and kero, it drives me bleeding mad from a servicing point of view. I tune up boiler 100% on the existing fuel, say it's 70% Diesel 30% Kero.
Two months later new driver comes out and delivers 70% kero with 30% Diesel or just 100% one type of fuel = THICK BLACK SMOKE = Shoot the service man !!!

OR oil driver comes out to give 1000lts of 50/50, puts in 500 diesel, oop's he then realises there is only room for 200 Kero, tank wasn't empty after all. = Different mix ratio

Or I know by the sulpher ( bad inefficient combustion ) build up inside the boiler since the last service that the mix of oil has been altered since it was last serviced by myself.

Mixing oil stems from when Kero was first brought on to the market 30+ years ago, it us to jam oil pumps and so it was found that if you also added diesel ( a more oily fuel ) this didn't happen, hense the mix. Or so I was told by the old oil men.

10% Kero is often added into diesel as an anti freeze.

I try to get my customers to go 100% Kero if possible, I'll even drop around and retune to Kero free of charge if they will change, = Less Smoke = Happier me = Less people trying to shoot me ( I hope )


I also find it hard to get the oil Co. to point out this to their clients, the'll sell / deliver what ever there asked for.


Are many of you guys comeing across this problem or is it only in parts of the country ?
Thanks

I have come across this also but not with the strong mix's you have posted. Usually 8 Kero to 1 Diesel, but it's rare. I would think it's more to do with price and people (as already suggested) adding the Diesel themselves if they have a Diesel tank for other proposes, and getting the mix wrong, thus upsetting the burner setting. The 8-1 idea was when Kero boilers came out first, they added the diesel to lubricate the bearings in the oil pump.