organic farming

blue5000

Sorry to disappoint you, just looking to cut down on artificial N use.

Water John

Not long enough into the organic to comment on your mixes. I think the option of reseeding clover either red or white is good. There is no need to get rid of long term grasses unless you're in a tillage rotation. Red clover is supposed to fix twice the amount of nitrogen as white.
Organic mixes would have more like Fescues and Timothy as grasses.

Gawddawggonnit

blue5000 wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint you, just looking to cut down on artificial N use.

What’s the difference?
Livestock can be treated with exactly the same medicines etc as conventional. The only real restrictions for organic are no artificial fert and chems.
Reducing fert use is easy. Reduced herbicides not easy.

Gawddawggonnit

Water John wrote: »

Not long enough into the organic to comment on your mixes. I think the option of reseeding clover either red or white is good. There is no need to get rid of long term grasses unless you're in a tillage rotation. Red clover is supposed to fix twice the amount of nitrogen as white.
Organic mixes would have more like Fescues and Timothy as grasses.

There’s new fescues available now that have much better quality herbage and much better production in the shoulders. Worth checking out.

Castlekeeper

Water John wrote: »

Fruit Hill Farm in West Cork. Mix 2.3 Grass/Red Clover.
Not sure how I will upgrade old pastures. I'm inclined, at some stage to redden it a bit and scatter seed, light harrow and roll. Neighbour used only a leveller. Used a number of runs and it was a success. Didn't kill off all the old grass but upgraded it with the new grass. I'd probably go later in the year, when the soil is warm and give the white clover , the best chance.

Was the example woth rhe neighbour wirh red ir white clover? Red clover is normally established by ploughing.

With regard to overseeding or stitching in, I've yet to hear or see of a successful strategy with herbal leys/MSS. I've failed twice myself with two different approaches and know of many more disappointments. Lots of people say my machine will do that no bother but as I've said I've yet to see it.

Castlekeeper

blue5000 wrote: »

What are organic farmers using for silage?
I'm not sure whether to use a mix of
Aston crusader, Italian rye 9kg
barblanco white clover 1kg
Milvus red clover 4kg

or

Abergain tetraploid 5kg
Aberchoice 4kg
Drumbo 2kg
Milvus red clover 2kg

I've had a red clover + Italian mix before, the red clover lasted 4 years, the rye grass is still there. But I left it go to seed in 2018 (drought) and only cut it once late in that year.

Will the high performance abers in the 2nd mix last with the red clover nitrogen only?
My plan is to stitch white clover into the second mix in year 3 after the red clover has died out and leave it as permanent grass for another 6/7 years.

As Walter said above, you might be better off diversifying the grass species as well. I wouldnt have much confidence in rye grasses to perform or last without N.
I'll attach the latest Teagasc study with a few key pages highlighted.

Castlekeeper

Panch18 wrote: »

What kind of money are Glenisk paying for milk in both winter and summer? Will they take as much as you can produce?

Any other processor in the market for organic milk?

AFAIK there's a 6 month winter premium window in the 50's. Summer milk is in the 30's. All flat price. You'd have to xall them to find out more but as said previously, there's mixed reports back about them.

Water John

See from this piece on the EU proposed Agri Plan that they want 25% land organic by 2030;
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/commission-to-seek-large-cuts-in-fertiliser-and-pesticide-use/

Somebody forgot to send the memo to our Minister of Ag.

20% reduction in N is achievable relatively easily. The 50% reduction in herbicides will be difficult for many in tillage, as Gawd said. Big change needed there.

endainoz

Article in the journal about the same topic

blue5000

Castlekeeper wrote: »

As Walter said above, you might be better off diversifying the grass species as well. I wouldnt have much confidence in rye grasses to perform or last without N.
I'll attach the latest Teagasc study with a few key pages highlighted.

Thanks CK, looks to me that there is 0.7 ton extra DM from the perennial ryegrass+RC than the Italian + RC with no N.

Haven't read it all yet.

Castlekeeper

blue5000 wrote: »

Thanks CK, looks to me that there is 0.7 ton extra DM from the perennial ryegrass+RC than the Italian + RC with no N.

Haven't read it all yet.

You're correct, and add another tonne for the Timothy RC and Mix 2.
Mix 2 would hedge bets better against weather variations, quality and preservation imho.

blue5000

Castlekeeper wrote: »

You're correct, and add another tonne for the Timothy RC and Mix 2.
Mix 2 would hedge bets better against weather variations, quality and preservation imho.

Going to try half rate of RC/IRG and per rye grass on 1 paddock to see what happens. The rest is getting RC and IRG.

Earnshaw

Anyone an idea how much an organic angus yearling (12 months old) would make? selling it direct to another farmer? heifer and bullocks...?

orchard farm

Same as convential prices at the minute

Buford T. Justice XIX

Might be of interest to some of you.
https://twitter.com/NatOrgSkill/status/1258722463455883264?s=19

endainoz

Have just noticed the remaining balance on the organic payment is in. Nice little surprise.

Buford T. Justice VI

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Might be of interest to some of you.
https://twitter.com/NatOrgSkill/status/1258722463455883264?s=19

One of the most interesting speakers I've ever heard. He gave a talk at Biofarm 2019.

endainoz

Is there any organic farmers here finishing cattle for the organic market? Have been looking into adding it to my suckler system with the idea of buying in 6 or 8 Angus bullocks and housing them(for a shorter time) in a disused cubicle shed and possibly finishing them on red clover silage.

Admittedly I don't know a whole pile about finishing animals but would like to know more about it. What would the target weight be to finish an Angus? What would be the target age of them? I remember hearing the organic finishers don't have the same strict rules about finishing that conventional lads have?

Water John

A part of the land would have to be designated organic along with housing. You also would need to join one of the Organic organisations, have a plan and be inspected. That will cost you €500+.
The stock you buy will need to be organic and you won't be able to sell animals as organic until you have converted that part of your farm, taking two years.
This is not to put you off but it's something you'll need to plan ahead for.
Yes I think 36 months is the age. Not sure how the factories deal with numbers. The usual line is to supply a few animals each month.
Another outlet might be the Leitrim Organic Producer Group, that may not be the correct name, but they're interested in Angus. They may be a better option for you.
I'm early in the game and haven't finished any stock yet. Will be fully organic in Jan 2021.
Some of the seed suppliers don't have fully organic seed but 70% or over. For that you apply for a simple derogation. Just a form of consent.

endainoz

Water John wrote: »

A part of the land would have to be designated organic along with housing. You also would need to join one of the Organic organisations, have a plan and be inspected. That will cost you €500+.
The stock you buy will need to be organic and you won't be able to sell animals as organic until you have converted that part of your farm, taking two years.
This is not to put you off but it's something you'll need to plan ahead for.
Yes I think 36 months is the age. Not sure how the factories deal with numbers. The usual line is to supply a few animals each month.
Another outlet might be the Leitrim Organic Producer Group, that may not be the correct name, but they're interested in Angus. They may be a better option for you.
I'm early in the game and haven't finished any stock yet. Will be fully organic in Jan 2021.
Some of the seed suppliers don't have fully organic seed but 70% or over. For that you apply for a simple derogation. Just a form of consent.

Thanks for the info, I'm actually in the same boat as yourself, am already in organic conversion and hope to be fully certified in jan 2021 also. It's just an idea to add another enterprise and to make use of the old shed.

Water John

In that case the Leitrim Coop seems your best option. I'll pm you.

tractorporn

Lads has anyone here been in contact with Glenisk re supplying organic milk? Thinking of changing from finishing to dairying and I'm wondering who is best to talk to in Glenisk.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Water John

Organic stock sale in GVM Kilmallock on Saturday.

Markcheese

tractorporn wrote: »

Lads has anyone here been in contact with Glenisk re supplying organic milk? Thinking of changing from finishing to dairying and I'm wondering who is best to talk to in Glenisk.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

You'll probably have to talk to more than glenisk , there are a few others taking organic milk , most of them looking for all year round milk ., Try ringing organic trust / and iofga .. they should have better idea of who's buying ..
Where in the country you are will have a big bearing too ..

tractorporn

Markcheese wrote: »

You'll probably have to talk to more than glenisk , there are a few others taking organic milk , most of them looking for all year round milk ., Try ringing organic trust / and iofga .. they should have better idea of who's buying ..
Where in the country you are will have a big bearing too ..

Do you have a contact for Glenisk? Yeah I've spoken to Aurivo and Arrabawn and Glenisk is the last one left, want to suss them all out. We are less than 20 miles from the plant in Killeigh.

Water John

Aurivo and Arrabawn supply organic milk retail. Aurivo have the contract for organic milk with Lidl. BTW packaging carton is totally natural fibres and biodegradable.

Earnshaw

Plan on selling some stock this October in an organic mart and the animals are all in-conversion. They will be full symbol in Jan 2021. Are they likely to make the same as a full symbol animal given the full symbol status is only 3 months away?

Is this something that buyers will be aware of, or will they just see in-conversion/full symbol....?

Water John

IWT the auctioneer will declare it, so as no comeback on the mart. Usually pretty accurate in pointing out any issue, that Iv'e seen.
As a matter of interest when might they be fit for slaughter?

endainoz

I bought a scales recently as it's part of the organic investment scheme so can get up to 60% of the price back excluding the vat as I'm a young farmer too. Just wondering how the process works? The instructions on the dept site are a bit vague.

Dinzee Conlee

endainoz wrote: »

I bought a scales recently as it's part of the organic investment scheme so can get up to 60% of the price back excluding the vat as I'm a young farmer too. Just wondering how the process works? The instructions on the dept site are a bit vague.

Are you sure you don’t need approval before you make any purchases?
I thought most schemes worked like that?

If you got the scales lately, it might be worth checking out ASAP...