organic farming

Water John

Yes, you have to apply. Then when the next tranche is opened you should then be notified but ATM they seem to be running slow and some applicants are held over to the next tranche.
Apply straight away, the date of your invoice then is important as you can only purchase when given the go ahead.

endainoz

Ah I see, well it literally came yesterday so I guess I'll be returning it and buying another one elsewhere!

Water John

You could go the DIY route. There's a thread on here about it call Weighing Scales. The cells and beams can be bought for about €300 on e-bay. Just make up a frame. I'll try and locate the thread.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058097664

But then you've 60% grant.

blue5000

Still on the fence about going organic, but I cut the oats/RC/RG mix yesterday for silage, glad to have it in the pit and covered when I got up this morning.



Phone on full zoom is a bit gritty, we are further away from the devil's bit than it looks in the pic.

Water John

Lovely pic, the only thing I'd say is to have a good bit of homework done before the scheme reopens. This will be more likely be 2022. You can then make a decision that is not rushed.
A market with some premium for what you produce is also needed if possible.

20silkcut

blue5000 wrote: »

Still on the fence about going organic, but I cut the oats/RC/RG mix yesterday for silage, glad to have it in the pit and covered when I got up this morning.



Phone on full zoom is a bit gritty, we are further away from the devil's bit than it looks in the pic.

Great photo,Your on the north side of the devils bit . We have the mirror image on the other side.

Earnshaw

Just looking down the line, what are the alternatives if you wanted to stay organic farming on marginal land but not have sucklers? I image buying in cheap organic dairy calves would be tricky given they can't be weaned for 12 weeks. Is there much profit to be made from buying organic weanlings and selling on again for someone to finish them?

blue5000

Earnshaw wrote: »

Just looking down the line, what are the alternatives if you wanted to stay organic farming on marginal land but not have sucklers? I image buying in cheap organic dairy calves would be tricky given they can't be weaned for 12 weeks. Is there much profit to be made from buying organic weanlings and selling on again for someone to finish them?

You'd be getting into 'extra movement territory' if they ever decided to cut movements to a minimum in future. What is your current system?

Water John

There probably is. Weanlings tend to be only a little more than standard cattle and there is a premium to those who supply factory outlets regularly. Some of these buy stores as they then finish more cattle each year than if they bought weanlings. Identifying a buyer who might take your cattle might be an option.
Kilmallock organic sale is on tomorrow. You can view it online TMK.

Earnshaw

blue5000 wrote: »

You'd be getting into 'extra movement territory' if they ever decided to cut movements to a minimum in future. What is your current system?

Good point. Sucklers currently. Heading towards keeping the bare minimum of them at the moment though.

Water John

Earnshaw, you asked about selling inconversion stock, four lots there in Kilmallock fully organic next Jan and they all sold well, no difference in price.

endainoz

Has anybody seen "Kiss The Ground" on Netflix? A very good watch, probably echoing what most organic farmers say here anyway but well worth a watch. It also doesn't demonize cattle either which is certainly a welcome change. Eamon Ryan could do with watching it.

Earnshaw

Water John wrote: »

Earnshaw, you asked about selling inconversion stock, four lots there in Kilmallock fully organic next Jan and they all sold well, no difference in price.

Was watching. Heifers not quite as good though. Would there be a reason for that?

Castlekeeper

Earnshaw wrote: »

Just looking down the line, what are the alternatives if you wanted to stay organic farming on marginal land but not have sucklers? I image buying in cheap organic dairy calves would be tricky given they can't be weaned for 12 weeks. Is there much profit to be made from buying organic weanlings and selling on again for someone to finish them?

A lot of lads buy a few high SCC but otherwise healthy cows and multi suckle the calves.

Water John

No idea, only buy bulls/bullocks so as not to have a mixed herd.

Earnshaw

Thinking it would be better to finish the heifers....and sell bullocks around 16 months in Autumn

Water John

It would be all about having a regular supply and market for the heifers, a butcher or direct sales.
You would have the adv of selling the bullocks on one or two mart days. Good strong bullocks €2.40/kilo yesterday
Regular monthly sale in Drumshanbo, two Autumn mart days in Kilmallock. Others around too.

Neddyusa

endainoz wrote: »

Has anybody seen "Kiss The Ground" on Netflix? A very good watch, probably echoing what most organic farmers say here anyway but well worth a watch. It also doesn't demonize cattle either which is certainly a welcome change. Eamon Ryan could do with watching it.

Just watched it tonight. Thought it was very good.
While I couldn't argue with the logic behind any of it, the one piece missing from the discussion for me was acknowledgement of the political power of the Agri-inputs industry in terms of maintaining the status quo.
The only real reference was to the US ditching the Paris Agreement.
But maybe the producers didn't want to disillusion watchers by bringing that dimension into it!..

Earnshaw

Water John wrote: »

It would be all about having a regular supply and market for the heifers, a butcher or direct sales.
You would have the adv of selling the bullocks on one or two mart days. Good strong bullocks €2.40/kilo yesterday
Regular monthly sale in Drumshanbo, two Autumn mart days in Kilmallock. Others around too.

Slaney/Goodherdsman seem to have demand for them?

endainoz

Budget 2021: €45 million ‘Covid beef scheme’ and CAP scheme extensions earmarked https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/budget-2021-e45-million-covid-beef-scheme-and-cap-scheme-extensions-earmarked/

Looks like the organic scheme might get opened again.

Water John

All those who got screwed in the last one should be allowed in, disclosure (that includes me).
People signed up, paid for a plan, paid to join an organic org, paid to do a training course, lost a year's production and got nothing.

Earnshaw

Water John wrote: »

All those who got screwed in the last one should be allowed in, disclosure (that includes me).
People signed up, paid for a plan, paid to join an organic org, paid to do a training course, lost a year's production and got nothing.

Yea surely they will be given some sort of priority entry next time round.

tractorporn

endainoz wrote: »

Budget 2021: €45 million ‘Covid beef scheme’ and CAP scheme extensions earmarked https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/budget-2021-e45-million-covid-beef-scheme-and-cap-scheme-extensions-earmarked/

Looks like the organic scheme might get opened again.

I wouldn't count your chickens just yet. Absolutely no mention of an extension for the likes of me who's contract ends on the 31st of December and even with a 33% increase than mightnt cover everyone looking to get back in.

Its far from rosey in organics at the min.

endainoz

Water John wrote: »

All those who got screwed in the last one should be allowed in, disclosure (that includes me).
People signed up, paid for a plan, paid to join an organic org, paid to do a training course, lost a year's production and got nothing.

They definitely should be given priority! At least the course is done already. I was very lucky to get in myself, they told me it was because my holding is (barely) over 40ha. Hopefully those who want to will get in this time around.

endainoz

tractorporn wrote: »

I wouldn't count your chickens just yet. Absolutely no mention of an extension for the likes of me who's contract ends on the 31st of December and even with a 33% increase than mightnt cover everyone looking to get back in.

Its far from rosey in organics at the min.

Are you talking about your organic licence? Why would you not be allowed to renew it?

tractorporn

endainoz wrote: »

Are you talking about your organic licence? Why would you not be allowed to renew it?

The majority of organic farmer's contracts with the department finish on the 31st of December i think the only people who don't are the likes of you who's contracts are up in 2023.

So far GLAS, Bdgp, etc have had announcements that the contracts for these schemes will have extensions to bring them to the implementation of the new CAP. There has been no announcement about organics. All that has been said is that there is more funding available. They fear with established organic farmers is that everyone will have to apply to the OFS again and that could mean that already organic farmers could be excluded if they don't meet the points requirement like Walter John and the last scheme, and new applicant's will be accepted because they have the right enterprises/points.

endainoz

tractorporn wrote: »

The majority of organic farmer's contracts with the department finish on the 31st of December i think the only people who don't are the likes of you who's contracts are up in 2023.

So far GLAS, Bdgp, etc have had announcements that the contracts for these schemes will have extensions to bring them to the implementation of the new CAP. There has been no announcement about organics. All that has been said is that there is more funding available. They fear with established organic farmers is that everyone will have to apply to the OFS again and that could mean that already organic farmers could be excluded if they don't meet the points requirement like Walter John and the last scheme, and new applicant's will be accepted because they have the right enterprises/points.

That sounds crazy, it makes no sense that someone like yourself would have to apply again like your starting off all over again, and to leave such a decision so late in the year is pretty shocking. Was there a similar situation 5 years ago when licences ran out before?

tractorporn

endainoz wrote: »

That sounds crazy, it makes no sense that someone like yourself would have to apply again like your starting off all over again, and to leave such a decision so late in the year is pretty shocking. Was there a similar situation 5 years ago when licences ran out before?

There was no scheme for people to join from the end of 2102 until the scheme opened again in May 2015. And that time the people had to reapply but there was money for everyone who joined not the case this time round

It may sound crazy but its likely that it could happen. I may be getting old and cynical but the powers that be dont really want growth in organics over origin green.

Water John

Origin Green plays on the onomatopoeia of Organic. and you're correct Tractor. Really hoping the Junior Minister might have some sway along with the EU train which is going that way, targeting 25% of farm land in Ireland to become organic.

Earnshaw

tractorporn wrote: »

The majority of organic farmer's contracts with the department finish on the 31st of December i think the only people who don't are the likes of you who's contracts are up in 2023.

So far GLAS, Bdgp, etc have had announcements that the contracts for these schemes will have extensions to bring them to the implementation of the new CAP. There has been no announcement about organics. All that has been said is that there is more funding available. They fear with established organic farmers is that everyone will have to apply to the OFS again and that could mean that already organic farmers could be excluded if they don't meet the points requirement like Walter John and the last scheme, and new applicant's will be accepted because they have the right enterprises/points.

Can you be in the Department 5 year Organic Scheme more than once?