organic farming

endainoz

Water John wrote: »

Origin Green plays on the onomatopoeia of Organic. and you're correct Tractor. Really hoping the Junior Minister might have some sway along with the EU train which is going that way, targeting 25% of farm land in Ireland to become organic.

That's actually mad, I would have thought anyone that was already in just simply rolled over into the next phase of it. They won't have a hope of getting closer to that figure if the numbers aren't allowed to increase, seems really counter productive to me.

Hopefully it'll work out for all of us though.

josephsoap

In the current organic scheme if you have 40 Ha is 20 suckers cows the most you keep?

You also cannot dose any of your cows or calves ?

You cannot spread chemical fertiliser such as 18 6 12 ? I could probably get away with Out spreading fertiliser if I could buy in silage.

You could only feed your calves organic meal ? Normal meal not allowed.

Water John

Yes you dose but use double the withdrawl period.
No artificial fertiliser.
All feeds for animals must be organic. Purchase of conventional straw for bedding is allowed.
Housing has to have 5m2 for each adult animal and at least 50% straw bedded.
All inputs must be organic. Derogation given for seed mix that are 70% organic/30% conventional. Even the WBC has to conform.

tractorporn

Earnshaw wrote: »

Can you be in the Department 5 year Organic Scheme more than once?

Yeah some lands were lucky and their contract finished at a time when there was a scheme open. Guys who finished up were offered short term extensions to get the to 2020 so now everyone bar the lads that came in in Nov 2109 is finishing up at the same time. Most lads only do one term and pull pin after that tho. A lot of lads talking of walking away in December

tractorporn

josephsoap wrote: »

In the current organic scheme if you have 40 Ha is 20 suckers cows the most you keep?

Nope the only upper limits is the nitrates 170kgN which is nearly to 90 cows

You also cannot dose any of your cows or calves ?

You can dose but you need to show that you need the dose like a dung sample or a vets letter you can't routine dose just for the craic.

You cannot spread chemical fertiliser such as 18 6 12 ? I could probably get away with Out spreading fertiliser if I could buy in silage. No fertiliser and any silage would have to be organic.

You could only feed your calves organic meal ?
No they have to have access to fodder meal can only make up 30% of the diet.

Normal meal not allowed.

No organic meal only

Water John

Some lads would grow a grain pea mix for crimping as their meal source. Others use a grass/red clover silage .

orchard farm

josephsoap wrote: »

In the current organic scheme if you have 40 Ha is 20 suckers cows the most you keep?

You also cannot dose any of your cows or calves ?

You cannot spread chemical fertiliser such as 18 6 12 ? I could probably get away with Out spreading fertiliser if I could buy in silage.

You could only feed your calves organic meal ? Normal meal not allowed.

If you've 40 ha 20 livestock unit is minimum stock rate to get full payments but if less stock your payed on a pro Rata bases i.e if you've 15 l.u your payed on 30 ha

Earnshaw

tractorporn wrote: »

Yeah some lands were lucky and their contract finished at a time when there was a scheme open. Guys who finished up were offered short term extensions to get the to 2020 so now everyone bar the lads that came in in Nov 2109 is finishing up at the same time. Most lads only do one term and pull pin after that tho. A lot of lads talking of walking away in December

Were those on the short term extension given the same rate of payment during the extended years i.e. like was the subsidy of €170/Ha continued?

tractorporn

Earnshaw wrote: »

Were those on the short term extension given the same rate of payment during the extended years i.e. like was the subsidy of €170/Ha continued?

Yeah the payment stayed the same for the roll over. Just hope there is another one now

Earnshaw

tractorporn wrote: »

Yeah the payment stayed the same for the roll over. Just hope there is another one now

But you wouldn't be entitled this type of payment during your 2nd 5 year scheme, right?

For example, would a lad that finished a five year term in 2020 get these payments if they were accepted onto a department scheme for 2021 to 2025?

ganmo

Random thought, i wonder how many organic farmers have a weed killer in their garden shed

SMB31

Hi,
Looking for any advice or help please. My father has 15acres of land which he has always leased to somebody and never farmed himself, I've just taken over the land renting it from him. I want to start converting the land to organic and have recieved an application pack to start this process. I have zero experience in anything to do with farming my question is where do I start? I'm currently working full time but due to covid it's looking fairly certain the company I work for will be closing either the end of the year or early next year. My goal is that I need to make a living from this land I understand 15 acres for 'traditional' farming is too small to do this but have spoken to a few people and have been told for organic farming it is possible, I dont need to become a millionaire I live a very simple life I need to eat and pay bills. Where do I go to see if I'm entitled to any Grant's or for advice. What would you do with this land?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and any positive advice or experience is welcome!

endainoz

ganmo wrote: »

Random thought, i wonder how many organic farmers have a weed killer in their garden shed

The home house and backyard are exempt from organic conversion, so it can be sprayed if needed. The mother runs a b&b and shoot me if I stopped spraying weeds around the house. Buffer of 5 metres from the organic land needs to be maintained though, and I have gotten it down to just one spray a year. Would like to look into a weed burner in the future possibly.

So the short answer to your question would be not really. Not worth it at all with the length it takes a spray to take effect if one was to get a random inspection. The topper/mower has become an essential tool on cleaning things up. Might get someone in with a panbuster to aeriate the soil a bit to tackle rush growth.

Markcheese

SMB31 wrote: »

Hi,
Looking for any advice or help please. My father has 15acres of land which he has always leased to somebody and never farmed himself, I've just taken over the land renting it from him. I want to start converting the land to organic and have recieved an application pack to start this process. I have zero experience in anything to do with farming my question is where do I start? I'm currently working full time but due to covid it's looking fairly certain the company I work for will be closing either the end of the year or early next year. My goal is that I need to make a living from this land I understand 15 acres for 'traditional' farming is too small to do this but have spoken to a few people and have been told for organic farming it is possible, I dont need to become a millionaire I live a very simple life I need to eat and pay bills. Where do I go to see if I'm entitled to any Grant's or for advice. What would you do with this land?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and any positive advice or experience is welcome!

Usually , the fewer acres you have , the harder you're going to have to work them ,to make a living off of it ..
What type of land is it ? And are you anywhere near a population centre .. you're probably going to have sell what you produce to the public ...

The other catch could be capital , you may need money and time to set up a business ...

But think market gardening - small scale dairy -poultry . Maybe pork ... But not all of those are brilliantly suited to organics ( organic pigs ,and organic poultry are just really expensive )
Sheds and buildings count a lot as well ...
If you're dealing direct with the public don't get too hung up on organic organisations .. if you're honest and open your customers will know what you stand for ..

Poor Farmer in the hills

Existing Organic farmers to be given a roll over for 2021!

endainoz

https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/grassland-management/how-dairy-farmer-gets-14t-ha-dm-of-grass-with-minimum-inputs

Very interesting article, just shows what can be done.

wrangler

endainoz wrote: »

https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/grassland-management/how-dairy-farmer-gets-14t-ha-dm-of-grass-with-minimum-inputs

Very interesting article, just shows what can be done.

If you're organic farmer, are you allowed import slurry from non organic farms,

Water John

I think so, but def not pig slurry.

wrangler

Water John wrote: »

I think so, but def not pig slurry.

If you can import organic matter, there's no reason not to be able to grow 14 tons DM. Mightn't be that easy to get though

Water John

The only farmers looking to offload slurry are pig farmers.

endainoz

endainoz wrote: »

https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/grassland-management/how-dairy-farmer-gets-14t-ha-dm-of-grass-with-minimum-inputs

Very interesting article, just shows what can be done.

He was one of the speakers at Biofarm 2019, the piece should be on the NOTS YouTube channel. AFAIR there was a bit of questioning - which may not be on the clip - over the amount of ploughing he does and the bare soil tht comes with forage crops.

kevipai

Mod snip, go read the charter before posting in here again.

ganmo

kevipai wrote: »

quotes deleted post.

This post makes no sense

Earnshaw

If a breeding cow is on a farm, and the farm converts to from non-organic to full organic status in her lifespan - when the cow is being culled will she be deemed by the factory as a full symbol organic animal?

Or is it only her progeny that qualify as full symbol?

endainoz

Earnshaw wrote: »

If a breeding cow is on a farm, and the farm converts to from non-organic to full organic status in her lifespan - when the cow is being culled will she be deemed by the factory as a full symbol organic animal?

Or is it only her progeny that qualify as full symbol?

Only the progeny as far as I know. It would be different if the cow was born on farm during the conversion phase. The animal would be fully certified once full status is achieved. But if the cow is born during the time the farm is still conventional, then they will stay conventional.

Water John

Some very interesting courses being run by NOTS, next year. Great value for money.
Jim Cronin, Tom Fouhy and Richard Perkins are the main agri and horticultural ones;
https://nots.ie/our-courses/

youllbemine

Water John wrote: »

Some very interesting courses being run by NOTS, next year. Great value for money.
Jim Cronin, Tom Fouhy and Richard Perkins are the main agri and horticultural ones;
https://nots.ie/our-courses/

Very interested in the Richard Perkins course. Although I already have his book and have watched most of his YouTube videos at this point so I can’t imagine there being much more in it. Just need to stop making excuses at this stage and go for it!

Also very keen on the no-dig market gardening side of things. There’s a town nearby with plenty of money and a demand for locally grown produce.

endainoz

I might chance the Richard Perkins course aswell. Very interesting guy.

Water John

Think we'd all like a no dig garden.
Many of these people are research pioneers and some aspects may be transferrable to wider industry.

Charles Dowding on YouTube is the guy to follow for no dig.