organic farming

Base price

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh it's us farmers at fault for it, we know it's going on and keep producing. You know what they say about meeting an ass.

Yeah but how do ye get off that speeding train when ye have bills to pay?

Base price

Base price wrote: »

Yeah but how do ye get off that speeding train when ye have bills to pay?

Start with things like the BioFarm thread and YouTube. A lot of bills on a farm are self inflicted and production related.

blue5000

Anyone else tight on grass, or is it just me? Hoping to get a few days out of last year's bird cover before it get's disced to stretch things a bit. Cow numbers will be dropping too, but haven't selected the culls yet.

A cold spring doesn't do much for clover, looks like I'll have to budget for an extra month's silage in the pit compared to relying on the urea bag.

Water John

Blue, it isn't a great grass year anyway yet. You're getting a double whammy as your grass is waiting for its bag fix. That will take a year or two to straighten out.
A bit more silage esp in the spring is needed IMO. If you have bales, throw one out in a feeder and hold the rotation, don't speed it up. Did that last year myself.
As well, you say you're still carrying the old stocking rate.

I have old meadows, long time organic, lots of clover, even now, in fact cattle a bit loose on it. Was surprised that the mob grazing last year seems to have brought it on more.

Siamsa Sessions

Deleted User wrote: »

Start with things like the BioFarm thread and YouTube. A lot of bills on a farm are self inflicted and production related.

Biggest thing for me is trying to take back some control over my two biggest input costs - fertiliser and feed. I'm dropping the stocking rate slightly next year and so will need less fertiliser, in theory at least. The plan was to cut silage earlier this year for higher quality and then feed less meal in winter, but slow grass growth has ended that plan.

I'd like to start planting more cover crops and whole crop silage but that'll come in time hopefully.

There's a great thread on Twitter from a lad who has been doing some of the above for the last few years and recently applied for the organic scheme. He seems to have naturally drifted towards organic:

https://twitter.com/KevinoHanlon12/status/1393585852387897345?s=20

endainoz

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Biggest thing for me is trying to take back some control over my two biggest input costs - fertiliser and feed. I'm dropping the stocking rate slightly next year and so will need less fertiliser, in theory at least. The plan was to cut silage earlier this year for higher quality and then feed less meal in winter, but slow grass growth has ended that plan.

I'd like to start planting more cover crops and whole crop silage but that'll come in time hopefully.

There's a great thread on Twitter from a lad who has been doing some of the above for the last few years and recently applied for the organic scheme. He seems to have naturally drifted towards organic:

https://twitter.com/KevinoHanlon12/status/1393585852387897345?s=20

Very interesting thread, good practical solutions aswell. MSSs seems to be the key for driving on production too.

Mooooo

He's in a pet of the country that can grow lucerne, or attempt to, not many other areas can. Fairplay to him, but on the point above about cutting input costs etc, those of ye that are managing it is the farm yer sole income?

Mooooo

Mooooo wrote: »

He's in a pet of the country that can grow lucerne, or attempt to, not many other areas can. Fairplay to him, but on the point above about cutting input costs etc, those of ye that are managing it is the farm yer sole income?

Sole income here. Buy no fert, I do buy hay and crystalyx to fill the hungry gap but I see this lessening overtime as I get my act together. The only concentrate I buy is a few bags for small numbers or individuals like rams to keep them quiet. Still buying dosing stuff for welfare reasons, mostly fluke (suppose I should point out I#m not organic, this being the organic thread). Trying to avoid dip and pour ons, the former is a challenge.

Any savings from the above is being poured into infrastructure for grazing atm. Few other irons in the fire I'm keeping under my hat for the time being

All basically gearing towards reaping retail money in whichever field or products lines look good.

Siamsa Sessions

endainoz wrote: »

Very interesting thread, good practical solutions aswell. MSSs seems to be the key for driving on production too.

The ASA have a webinar tomorrow on it: https://www.asaireland.ie/multispecies-swards-webinar/

I put in a straight/simple 4-year MSS mix on 2 acres as a trial last year but am not impressed with the docks that came thru it since then. That's my inexperience managing it as much as anything else. But I'm trying a molasses foliar spray at the moment so we'll see if I can train the cattle to eat the docks.

I'm reseeding another 4 acres at the moment and I'm using a straight grass/clover mix - no MSS. There were lots of thistles and docks in the field so I want to use a post-emergence spray. I'll stitch in (or broadcast?) different species next year and try to build up the variety in the sward over time. As with any new idea, my knowledge needs to grow in parallel

manjou

blue5000 wrote: »

Anyone else tight on grass, or is it just me? Hoping to get a few days out of last year's bird cover before it get's disced to stretch things a bit. Cow numbers will be dropping too, but haven't selected the culls yet.

A cold spring doesn't do much for clover, looks like I'll have to budget for an extra month's silage in the pit compared to relying on the urea bag.

Grass tight here as well but thats due to cold weather only started closing silage ground today and spreading the slurry on them as cows eat them. Dont close here normalky till 2nd or 3rd week may anyway as grass only gets going then
As regards culling the cows that are less able for change of system will cull themselves
.

Water John

Not sure is it fair to blame the MSS for the docks. Whatever was going to be set the tilling that you did is what facilitated the docks. That's not a criticism, just what happened.
I think mixes of 10/12 species and varieties is what one needs to be looking at. Each field then will find its own balance.

I have a 2 acre field closed for silage, a good few docks. Going to go over it with the mower with the skids on. The docks are higher than the grass ATM.

Say my name

Mooooo wrote: »

He's in a pet of the country that can grow lucerne, or attempt to, not many other areas can. Fairplay to him, but on the point above about cutting input costs etc, those of ye that are managing it is the farm yer sole income?

That's a very good farm with land in three blocks.
The owners bought the farm back in the 50's I think. Their first thing they did on buying the farm was to plant trees as it was very bare. Then the dairy herd was started.
The husband died and the wife continued on with her sons.
A son got married and pushed on further with the facilities. The brother then was big into renewables.
The son that was farming then died in a farming accident and left behind a wife and young family.
Kevin was employed then and manages/runs the farm with workers under him. They say it's a dream of a farm. And they look to have a top notch manager that is very sympathetic and on the same wavelength that the owners were thinking.

Lucerne should grow well on that farm. There was someone growing it in ferns and they seem to have been managing it.

Dinzee Conlee

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

The ASA have a webinar tomorrow on it: https://www.asaireland.ie/multispecies-swards-webinar/

I put in a straight/simple 4-year MSS mix on 2 acres as a trial last year but am not impressed with the docks that came thru it since then. That's my inexperience managing it as much as anything else. But I'm trying a molasses foliar spray at the moment so we'll see if I can train the cattle to eat the docks.

I'm reseeding another 4 acres at the moment and I'm using a straight grass/clover mix - no MSS. There were lots of thistles and docks in the field so I want to use a post-emergence spray. I'll stitch in (or broadcast?) different species next year and try to build up the variety in the sward over time. As with any new idea, my knowledge needs to grow in parallel

I thought clover and post emergence sprays didn't go well together?

Water John

We'll need to look more at mechanical weed control. These are generally based on the idea that most weeds at some point are taller than the crop.
This is one;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZAf2n8HLs

Others operate like a disc mower but at variable heights.

Siamsa Sessions

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I thought clover and post emergence sprays didn't go well together?

There's a few clover-safe sprays available. They weren't available for the past 12 months but there's some sort of derogation now and they are available for the next 2 months. I've some ordered thru a local merchant but it's scarce enough apparently.

Markcheese

Worked on a farm where ,doing a full reseed in a field that had a dock problem,so we tried doing a stale seed bed - plowed ,harrowed , and then just used a grass harrow to lift and disturb the the dock roots over a few weeks - to be honest I don't think it made a huge difference.. good establishment and grazing management probably does a lot more -
Youre much less likely to have high k levels(or loads of slurry ) in an organic system anyway ,so less likely to stay a problem ..

Question for ye lads & ladies

If I was to buy organic hay or silage how what could I get from the seller to know whether the forage was really organic or not? It would need to be organic for the chemical free element rather than a paperwork exercise.

(Can you tell I deal with a lot of forage re-sellers...)

Dinzee Conlee

Deleted User wrote: »

Question for ye lads & ladies

If I was to buy organic hay or silage how what could I get from the seller to know whether the forage was really organic or not? It would need to be organic for the chemical free element rather than a paperwork exercise.

(Can you tell I deal with a lot of forage re-sellers...)

Assuming you only supplement with hay for a small amount of the year, and you aren't organic certified - would a few bales of non-organic hay really make that much difference overall?

Or is it more the principle of it?

Dinzee Conlee

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Assuming you only supplement with hay for a small amount of the year, and you aren't organic certified - would a few bales of non-organic hay really make that much difference overall?

Or is it more the principle of it?

It's for a particular downstream purpose project where I absolutely need to avoid chemicals - not for stock to eat or paperwork.

Therefore absolutely yes, it would make a huge difference to the project and no it's not about the principle.

endainoz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Question for ye lads & ladies

If I was to buy organic hay or silage how what could I get from the seller to know whether the forage was really organic or not? It would need to be organic for the chemical free element rather than a paperwork exercise.

(Can you tell I deal with a lot of forage re-sellers...)

Well I doubt there would be a way of knowing for sure, if the farmer is fully certified maybe it would have to be a case of trust.

Prop Joe

Deleted User wrote: »

Question for ye lads & ladies

If I was to buy organic hay or silage how what could I get from the seller to know whether the forage was really organic or not? It would need to be organic for the chemical free element rather than a paperwork exercise.

(Can you tell I deal with a lot of forage re-sellers...)

Every Organic Farmer has a license so if you were to buy hay off me,I would give you a copy of my licence and you would input it into your book that you bought hay off Joe ref:the number

And i would input in my book that i sold HERDQUITTER hay ref: your license number

Simples

Prop Joe

Prop Joe wrote: »

Every Organic Farmer has a license so if you were to buy hay off me,I would give you a copy of my licence and you would input it into your book that you bought hay off Joe ref:the number

And i would input in my book that i sold HERDQUITTER hay ref: your license number

Simples

Ok, thanks for that, I think it's as good as I'll get

minerleague

endainoz wrote: »

Well I doubt there would be a way of knowing for sure, if the farmer is fully certified maybe it would have to be a case of trust.

Was digging a grave some years ago and one man involved was an organic farmer, some of the other lads around were asking him how come his brother ( conventional farmer ) buys so much fertilizer and feed for the amount of cattle he had !!! Nothing was admitted or denied but everyone had a good laugh all the same

endainoz

minerleague wrote: »

Was digging a grave some years ago and one man involved was an organic farmer, some of the other lads around were asking him how come his brother ( conventional farmer ) buys so much fertilizer and feed for the amount of cattle he had !!! Nothing was admitted or denied but everyone had a good laugh all the same

Kinda takes the pi$$ of the whole thing really. Hopefully he won't get caught for his own sake.

wrangler

minerleague wrote: »

Was digging a grave some years ago and one man involved was an organic farmer, some of the other lads around were asking him how come his brother ( conventional farmer ) buys so much fertilizer and feed for the amount of cattle he had !!! Nothing was admitted or denied but everyone had a good laugh all the same

It wasn't meath was it, I know an oeganic farmer up there and he has a meal bin in his yard that his brother uses !!!!!!!!

Even being allowed to used non organic farm slurry makes a farce of it all too

minerleague

wrangler wrote: »

It wasn't meath was it, I know an oeganic farmer up there and he has a meal bin in his yard that his brother uses !!!!!!!!

Even being allowed to used non organic farm slurry makes a farce of it all too

No, not meath, but it was a good few years ago now, maybe attitudes have changed nowadays. there will always be a few even in REPS or GLAS who will try and push the rules to (over?) the limit

endainoz

minerleague wrote: »

No, not meath, but it was a good few years ago now, maybe attitudes have changed nowadays. there will always be a few even in REPS or GLAS who will try and push the rules to (over?) the limit

Absolutely, I know a lad here in GLAS and they planted their WBC once and didn't touch it since. Bit of a joke alright.

Markcheese

Usually the organic inspector would have a fairly good idea that something is wrong - ( if youre getting massive production off fields with no clover , or even the grass is too bright ) , it's rare that you wouldn't find some sign of the meal being fed to animals - but if your books show little meal purchased there's something up - so more spot checks-
It's possible to get away with stuff - but not always easy ..

tractorporn

endainoz wrote: »

Kinda takes the pi$$ of the whole thing really. Hopefully he won't get caught for his own sake.

Why if you and me are doing it right would you want the messer to get away with it? I hope those lads buying meal get caught and put out. I never understood why lads would jeopardise every last cent the Department give you for a couple of euro on a bag of meal?

Water John

wrangler wrote: »

It wasn't meath was it, I know an oeganic farmer up there and he has a meal bin in his yard that his brother uses !!!!!!!!

Even being allowed to used non organic farm slurry makes a farce of it all too

Not allowed have conventional feed on the farm.
Bovine slurry is allowed to be imported, not pig or poultry. Straw is the other conventional input allowed without a derogation.
Most I know in organics would steer between the lines. As poster above says, the Licence Inspector will spot any messer quickly.