organic farming

FarmerBrowne

Thanks @blue5000. Another question; if you didn't want to winter the cattle can you sell them in the backend and still fulfill the required stocking rate. For example from March to October (8 months) you stock at .25 units and you average better than the required .15 over the 12 months or do you have to have animals 12 months for every month?

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704316#Comment_119704316

I think they have reduced the minimum stocking now ( .1 ?? )

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704316#Comment_119704316

AFAIK you don’t have to carry over the winter, just have the minimum stocking rate for the year. TB in the back end might catch you out though.

HQ the calf is considered organic once he’s born 3 months after conversion commenced. He can be sold to a fully converted organic farm and be finished there. That’s my understanding of it anyway but you might want to check it out further. I’m going on my own situation where my calves born this year can be sold organically. I am in the second year of conversion.

893bet

Larry won’t be long sorting the premium price on the beef with all the extra farmers joining.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705143#Comment_119705143

There might be no substantial increase in production. Most seem to be joining to draw the extra payments. While on the sheep side it may see an increase in the beef side lads joing and stocking at a minimal level or only keeping a few stores will not see any glut

FarmerBrowne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705474#Comment_119705474

Thats my intention anyways, keep the bare minimum to draw the payments.

manjou

The calf becomes organic the same day as farm becomes organic. An organic farmer can buy the calf but can't kill calf organically until its organic as far as I can remember. Price of 5.60 is flat price all in for r grade no qa or breed bonus. Stocking rate is same as for anc at .1 so don't need many to draw down payment. So 5 lus on 100 acres

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705474#Comment_119705474

I was on my first organics course webinar this week. The instructor said 30% of organic beef is sold thru conventional markets. If extra lads convert to organic, there's every chance much of the additional stock will be sold as conventional.

So, I agree with you - no real increase in organic beef being produced. It might be farmed organically, but it'll be sold as conventional. If anything, there will be slightly less conventional beef production as farmers reduce stocking rates if they convert.

893bet

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/news/organic-beef-premium-set-to-be-eroded-as-kill-figures-rise-42037000.html

They are comping at the bit to drop the price.

manjou

On last inspection inspector said about 70% of weanlings sold convential on farms he inspected.

Water John

Not my stock, 18 bull organic weanlings in Macroom Mart tomorrow. These are from Ch cows. 230/330 kg he says. Iv'e bought before, really good quality stock.

893bet

Roscommon mart had an organic cattle sale at 12. Logged on at 12.05. Assumed it hadn’t started.

seems I missed it. It a great advert that.

_Brian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711187#Comment_119711187

So how does this work after the conversion period where your getting the support payments ?? You have the extra costs of producing organic stock but not the premium price... Is there an ongoing support pyment /Ha after the 5 years ??

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718008#Comment_119718008

You sign up for another 5 year contract, talking to existing organic farmers at open days it seems common for those selling good continental weanlings to get best prices at conventional cattle sales. Doesn't seem to be many finishers of organic cattle ( probably because of meal price )

_Brian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718046#Comment_119718046

Ok. I presume then following 5 year contracts are fairly guaranteed.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119721613#Comment_119721613

while they get the numbers up to that 7.5 percent target I think so. Then you can I assume they start cut the amount of money and sharing it around or similar same BPS cuts.

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119721613#Comment_119721613

Thats the big question. Will there be priority for those coming to the end of 5 year contracts? Someone asked a question of the Dept of Ag official about that and the ranking system and he said " we're confident there will be enough for everyone who wants to enter organics" Now he could be just talking about this year??? 5 years time is a long time in politics

Just reading the journal and it seems in the 2 year conversion period you can feed non GMO conventional concentrates ( new info to me anyway )

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725064#Comment_119725064

If they need to boost stats in 5 years time for the area under organic production, then I'd be guessing priority would be given to new entrants rather than existing ones. The Dept assumption being that more new land will be brought in by the new entrants than will be lost by existing farmers dropping out.

Water John

Anyone looking to finish organic stock would need to be using wholecrop, crimping or red clover silage.

Whilst IOA and Organic Trust carry classified ads, AFAIK a more comprehensive database of owners is being set up. there is a good bit of leakage ATM. Some of this is due to distance to marts. Only one in the South is Kilmallock 3/4 times a year.

Cran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725064#Comment_119725064

You can’t feed non organic in transition period, unless it’s change recently

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727285#Comment_119727285

I think dairy farmers in transition can. Not 100% sure on this either.

Silverdream

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727285#Comment_119727285

You can feed existing feed in the yard. That's why on the Organics plan you have to give details of existing feed/fodder that is place, so for the first winter at least you will have no issue using what you have already made.

Birdnuts

Best thing folks looking at converting should do is access a farm walk on one of the long established operators farms like Kim McCall outside Kilcullen or Tommy Earley in Leitrim etc.. Wealth of knowledge to be had with lads like that

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727300#Comment_119727300

There's a thing called non-simultaneous conversion where the land enters conversion first and 18 months later the stock enters conversion. Its mostly the dairy and poultry guys who do it as once your cows/hens are in conversion for 6 months you can sell milk/eggs as organic on the two year anniversary of the land. In that time you can feed non organic feed as look as its non GM.

It doesn't really add up for sucklers as the first crop of calves that can be considered organic are three months after the stock enters conversion which in this case is 19 months after the land starts, so its almost 4 years after the land starts that you would have cattle fit for the factory instead of possibly just over 2 years.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727859#Comment_119727859

Kim McCall isn't organic AFAIK just regenerative

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727300#Comment_119727300

I got half the story as usual 😏 They really are desperate to get dairy farmers to sign up, bigger grant rate and now this

massey 265

Any existing organic farmers out there considering going into new acres scheme?i checked it out and it could be alot more lucrative than glas scheme was due to double funding deductions.take 30 hectare farm.18 ha good land and 12 ha poor land.when in glas had 10 ha l.i.p.p.3140 1 ha bird cover 900 and protection of watercourse 836 total 4966.all actions taken on the 12 ha of poor land.organic scheme payment 30 ha at 170 was 5100 take 11 ha double funding deduction of 1870 gives organic payment of 3230.total glass 4966 plus organic 3230 is 8196.

Same farm acres options 400 mtrs new hedge row 2116.grass margin grassland 1.5 mtrs wide 2460 mtrs long 2460.riparian strip 2mtr wide 2000 long.2600.total 7176.organic scheme 30ha by 250 is 7500 plus 1400 top up total 8900.take double funding deduction of 2460 at 1.5 is 3690 mtrs plus 2000 at 2 is 4000 mtrs.total 7690 mtrs is approx 3 quarters of a hectare so 200 .organic payment of 8700 plus acres 7176

Total 15 876.

Looks ok to me.

blue5000

What about the costs with acres, hedge, fencing and planner? What is the max payment for acres? Who has 2 km of river bank? Sorry about all the questions, hopefully we'll get some answers.

mr.stonewall

On a side note. Is anyone sick of the constant text messages from the Dept regarding the organics. It's getting persistent and other important info could over looked.

massey 265

The 400 mtr hedge will cost 3eu per meter.1200 over 5 years is 250 per year which is less than cost to sow 1 ha wild bird cover in glas each year.electric fence will cover fencing.planner is 550 for plan and annual fee of 250 as no farm visit needed over 5 year plan.glas was 450 for plan and 300 annual fee.7300 max in general scheme.600 meter river but surface drains are accectable in acres and got loads of them.these drains were not allowed in glas only streams and rivers showing up blue on map