organic farming

endainoz

Panch18 wrote:

What is your plan for being in organic? All beef? a bit of tillage?

The plan gone through was all beef, had I known that lads that put half their farm under tillage were guranteed into the scheme I would have made the plan different. But too late now, anyway was told that I'd have an answer about getting into the scheme by the end of the month or early October.

Panch18

endainoz wrote: »

The plan gone through was all beef, had I known that lads that put half their farm under tillage were guranteed into the scheme I would have made the plan different. But too late now, anyway was told that I'd have an answer about getting into the scheme by the end of the month or early October.

Best of luck with it - keep us posted on what your doing. Organic is an interesting area

endainoz

Thanks, will see how I get on. The scheme was only opened for a short time for applications at the end of last year. Priority was given to tillage and dairy guys though so I'm not overly confident of getting in but who knows? Teagasc told me the the scheme is likely to open fully again in early 2021.

Water John

Yes, I put a bit of tillage in. It was the opinion of advisors that it would assure getting into organic. From what I heard on my training course, they were expecting all applicants to be accepted.
We were to know in Sept.

wrangler

Water John wrote: »

Yes, I put a bit of tillage in. It was the opinion of advisors that it would assure getting into organic. From what I heard on my training course, they were expecting all applicants to be accepted.
We were to know in Sept.

We facilitate Organic Farmers in our lamb group, some have lovely lambs, just proves that extensive stocking suits sheep.

Earnshaw

Also have the Ready for Rass status on Agfood.

Means eligibility checks are done and its passed that stage. That's all I know.

endainoz

Earnshaw wrote: »

Also have the Ready for Rass status on Agfood.

Means eligibility checks are done and its passed that stage. That's all I know.

Yeah that's pretty much what I think it means, I assuming its good news anyway. Also got a message from Organic Trust this evening telling me I cant use peat bedding for animals for the coming housing season. Hopefully Ill find out soon so I can order some straw and possibly some sand to go underneath it. The peat left over will have to be used for gardening!

tractorporn

endainoz wrote: »

Thanks, will see how I get on. The scheme was only opened for a short time for applications at the end of last year. Priority was given to tillage and dairy guys though so I'm not overly confident of getting in but who knows? Teagasc told me the the scheme is likely to open fully again in early 2021.

There won't be a scheme opened until the new CAP is sorted and it's looking now like it will be 2022 or even early 2023 before its sorted and a scheme opened up.

Did the Trust not tell you to put in some amount of tillage just to get some extra points for the marking scheme?

Water John

I think 220+ applied. Not many dairy and tillage from what Iv'e heard. Would be hopeful for all applicants. Many in my training group were sheep farmers.

tractorporn

Water John wrote: »

I think 220+ applied. Not many dairy and tillage from what Iv'e heard. Would be hopeful for all applicants. Many in my training group were sheep farmers.

224 people applied and not all will get in.

endainoz

tractorporn wrote:

Did the Trust not tell you to put in some amount of tillage just to get some extra points for the marking scheme?

Unfortunately not, I didn't find out until I did the course on Athenry last July.

blue5000

How do organic farmers grow cereals in this country? Min-till AFAIK won't work and ploughing releases CO2. How do you control weeds?

wrangler

blue5000 wrote: »

How do organic farmers grow cereals in this country? Min-till AFAIK won't work and ploughing releases CO2. How do you control weeds?

Rotation

endainoz

blue5000 wrote:

How do organic farmers grow cereals in this country? Min-till AFAIK won't work and ploughing releases CO2. How do you control weeds?

Big focus on soil prep, fertility, rotation and cover crops. No dig systems will be in more usage in the future on a larger scale I reckon.

tractorporn

blue5000 wrote: »

How do organic farmers grow cereals in this country? Min-till AFAIK won't work and ploughing releases CO2. How do you control weeds?

Two schools of though over here atm. Some guys plant the crop and shut the gate, hope the crop gets up in front of the weeds and the next time they are in the field is for harvest.

There are other guys who go with stale seed beds and mechanical weeders when the crop is at a low growth stage. The jury is out whether the extra yield cover the extra passes, but very little research done on it so far.

Nearly all organic farmers plough due to weeds, but a lot of info coming out of UK atm showing that no till is possible, or at least reducing ploughing to 1 year in 5, using cover crops, the biggest obstacle at the minute is how to destroy the cover crop. It looks like knive rollers may solve that.

endainoz

Have just been told from a fairly reliable source that we will know by next week when department letters go out of were in the scheme or not. So either way, we'll all hopefully know by next week.

Water John

See the Green Party alt budget makes a big allocation to organic farming, Creed take note.

endainoz

Water John wrote: »

See the Green Party alt budget makes a big allocation to organic farming, Creed take note.

They might have to shift that way for next year's budget if whoever gets elected forms a coalition with the greens. Majority of farmers will be against the greens going in though. Or maybe that's just the same angry ejits that have to comment of every farming article going on about carbon tax.

tractorporn

endainoz wrote: »

Water John wrote: »

See the Green Party alt budget makes a big allocation to organic farming, Creed take note.

They might have to shift that way for next year's budget if whoever gets elected forms a coalition with the greens. Majority of farmers will be against the greens going in though. Or maybe that's just the same angry ejits that have to comment of every farming article going on about carbon tax.

Farmers are fairly suspicious about the Greens after their last period in Government. And rightly so IMO, just look at Eamon Ryan this week looking for compulsory planting and for land to be abandoned to go wild so that wolves could be released. They might give to organic farmers with one hand but be sure they will take just as much with the other.

endainoz

I think the greens made a pretty fatal error last time they were in power by encouraging people to buy diesel cars. Seems like that failed policy won't go away. In fairness when the car manufacturers were lying about the emmisions from diesels yet somehow it's the Green's fault?

I'd agree with you on the wolves thing though, a pretty stupid idea. There are enough things to kills lambs already than to be adding them lads to the mix. I'd also disagree with the compulsory planting. I'd be all for making it voluntary though, assuming farmers would get paid yearly for it.

Water John

A lot more research needs to be done on carbon sequestration in farming. Throwing out suggestions that antagonise farmers and actually don't solve the underlying issue is not a good idea.
Hope to come across him in a few weeks time and make the point strongly to him.

Ryan is still naive, the wolf thing totally overshadowed any good budget proposals they had.

emaherx

endainoz wrote: »

I think the greens made a pretty fatal error last time they were in power by encouraging people to buy diesel cars. Seems like that failed policy won't go away. In fairness when the car manufacturers were lying about the emmisions from diesels yet somehow it's the Green's fault?

I'd agree with you on the wolves thing though, a pretty stupid idea. There are enough things to kills lambs already than to be adding them lads to the mix. I'd also disagree with the compulsory planting. I'd be all for making it voluntary though, assuming farmers would get paid yearly for it.

It was fairly common knowledge that Diesel's were dirty at the time. But they decided to look only at the co2 emissions and ignore everything else.

Every country in Europe has higher carbon emissions from electric cars due to how their electricity is produced except France because of the amount of nuclear power they use. That combined with the environmental and human damage caused by Cobalt and lithium mining to produce batteries I wonder are we seeing the same mistake happening all over again?

Water John

The switch to renewables, in various forms, for electricity generation is the key to a carbon neutral future. In relation to farming, this should mean making biofuels and bioeneregy a viable option but they have ignored that message here for 20 years.

Say my name

emaherx wrote: »

It was fairly common knowledge that Diesel's were dirty at the time. But they decided to look only at the co2 emissions and ignore everything else.

Every country in Europe has higher carbon emissions from electric cars due to how their electricity is produced except France because of the amount of nuclear power they use. That combined with the environmental and human damage caused by Cobalt and lithium mining to produce batteries I wonder are we seeing the same mistake happening all over again?

Can the cobalt and lithium from batteries not be recycled?

Water John

The batteries have a second life as energy storage and can then be recycled. To any one, be careful picking up these type of landmines laid by pro fossil fuel lobbyists. Not having a go at you Emaherx, we all indeed fell for the diesel scam.

emaherx

Water John wrote: »

The batteries have a second life as energy storage and can then be recycled. To any one, be careful picking up these type of landmines laid by pro fossil fuel lobbyists. Not having a go at you Emaherx, we all indeed fell for the diesel scam.

Who ever laid the landmines I don't know.
But there is still a lot of lithium and Cobalt to be mined if we are to replace the near billion internal combustion engines on the road. Lithium poisons the ground water in areas where it is mined and most Cobalt is mined in the Congo under horrendous conditions using slave labour including child labour it's not an issue that should just be ignored to have so called zero emissions cars especially not if producing the required electricity has high emissions anyway. Being able to recycle the batteries is great but what is the cost of producing enough in the first place?

ganmo

Anyone heading to this?

Water John

No, news to me that IFA have an Organic Section. Looks like green washing to me.

_Brian

endainoz wrote: »

They might have to shift that way for next year's budget if whoever gets elected forms a coalition with the greens. Majority of farmers will be against the greens going in though. Or maybe that's just the same angry ejits that have to comment of every farming article going on about carbon tax.

How will that work if there isn’t a market for the produce.
Currently insufficient market for organic beef, maybe someone has more recent figures but from last numbers I saw 60% of organic beef was being killed at commercial rates.

That’s not sustainable

endainoz

_Brian wrote:

How will that work if there isn’t a market for the produce. Currently insufficient market for organic beef, maybe someone has more recent figures but from last numbers I saw 60% of organic beef was being killed at commercial rates.

_Brian wrote:

That’s not sustainable

Hadn't heard those figures, you could be right. From what I gather the Organic sales in Drumshambo does very well. And (according to Teagasc) the organic market is increasing a lot in recent years, particularly in export markets. I don't have exact figures though.

As for the 60% killed commercially? I wouldn't be inclined to believe it, a certain percentage not good enough would be killed conventionally for sure, but 60% sounds a bit unrealistic to me.

Any active organic people here have an opinion on this?