Iona vs Panti

aloyisious

Pherekydes wrote: »

While you're at it, will you ask her if the children of unmarried parents are bastards? And as such they should be discriminated against?

TIA.

Do you want me to ask about divorcees as well?

Zillah

I'm waiting in no small degree of frustration for someone to ask her directly if she opposes allowing infertile heterosexual couples to get married, and if not, why not? I can't see how she wouldn't just fall to pieces considering that the only thing she ever says when asked why she opposes same-sex marriage is that they can't have children.

Pherekydes

aloyisious wrote: »

Do you want me to ask about divorcees as well?

You may as well. I've done everything else, so divorce is hardly going to make it worse for me.

I wonder what she thinks of "non traditional" dressing?

The Sparrow

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Am I the only child with a single parent upbringing who's getting extremely tired of being insulted all the time by these people without them even realising it?

Breda. A hint. It doesn't really matter what configuration the people who bring you up do it. As long as they love you and encourage you.

As an adult who grew up in a one parent household due to a parent passing away when I was very young, I get extremely angry at this notion that not having one male and female parent is damaging to children.

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter whether children grow up in a family with a male and female parent, two female or male parents, a single parent or any combination of grandparents or other family members or even adopted or foster parents. The only important thing is that the children grow up in a safe environment where they feel loved and appreciated and they are encouraged to reach their potential whilst also learning about values and how to treat other people.

And learning not to judge people by your own prejudices. Something that a lot of the Iona Institute etc could do with learning themselves.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

oceanclub wrote: »

It also requires you to write in something resembling English. ("MOPEry"?)

P.

Gosh, not just a lack of empathy, but a lack of awareness of the island where the ".ie" hails from.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2006/05/05/mope_moping_and_mopery/

MOPE is an acronym that derives from the title of an essay written by Professor Liam Kennedy a few years back. It comes with the sub title: THE HISTORICAL SYNDROME OF THE MOST OPPRESSED PEOPLE EVER. As a notional ‘syndrome’, it affects the capacity of otherwise rational individuals to see Northern Ireland’s problems in context with other global (and much more traumatic) events. It is rooted in the feeling that Ireland’s trauma is not like anyone else’s: it is deep and unto itself.<...>

Glad to be able to help by making these connections.

Nodin wrote: »

I've often wondered if you were some sort of automated smug sneer that was programmed to post every so often......

Your couldn't automate really effective sneers, of the kind that sting enough for people to comment specifically on their smugness. For that, you simply need empathy. Because androids don't dream of electric sheep.

Doctor DooM

The Sparrow wrote: »

As an adult who grew up in a one parent household due to a parent passing away when I was very young, I get extremely angry at this notion that not having one male and female parent is damaging to children.

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter whether children grow up in a family with a male and female parent, two female or male parents, a single parent or any combination of grandparents or other family members or even adopted or foster parents. The only important thing is that the children grow up in a safe environment where they feel loved and appreciated and they are encouraged to reach their potential whilst also learning about values and how to treat other people.

And learning not to judge people by your own prejudices. Something that a lot of the Iona Institute etc could do with learning themselves.

A humourous aside- my step sister grew up with 2 loving dads and a mam. Does that mean she is some form of superchild in ionaland?

oceanclub

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Gosh, not just a lack of empathy, but a lack of awareness of the island where the ".ie" hails from.Glad to be able to help by making these connections.Your couldn't automate really effective sneers, of the kind that sting enough for people to comment specifically on their smugness. For that, you simply need empathy. Because androids don't dream of electric sheep.

So because some bloke coined a word based on an acronym a few years ago, an acronym I've never once seen used, I'm supposed to instantly understand it. And by some bizarre twist you imply I'm anti-Irish because I don't.

Go away, you eejit.

P.

lazygal

I bet Breda advocates adoption for women with unwanted pregnancies. Will she oppose the new bill allowing gay couples to adopt? Would it be better for a woman with an unwanted pregnancy to have an abortion or have the child adopted by a gay couple? Should heterosexual couples be allowed preferential treatment or are single straight people better than gay couples? What about the biological parents who don't want the child, are they better parents than a gay couple who undergo invasive treatments to procreate? So many judgmental decisions, so little airtime.

Zillah

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Gosh, not just a lack of empathy, but a lack of awareness of the island where the ".ie" hails from.

You sound completely stoned. Like that guy at a party who doesn't realise he's talking nonsense.

Brian Shanahan

B0jangles wrote: »

She's on now and is NOT covering herself with glory. Overall I think it's good because Marian is calling her out on most of what she's saying.

I was listening to it on my way into Limerick for the Harty Cup final this morning and I had to turn the radio off it was so disgusting. If you didn't know what kind of homophobic ****es Iona were and were listening to her for the first time, you'd think they were a pro-LGBT organisation.

PopePalpatine

I've pointed it out before, Breda O'Brien has a Professor Umbridge-esque air about her.

B0jangles

The thing was that if you followed her line of thinking then you'd have to conclude that she was opposed to adoption and any form of aided conception where a donor egg or sperm are used.
By saying what she did, she will have alienated a lot of listeners who have no strong opinion on gay rights but who do feel strongly about adoption and parenthood via donors. That bit where she pretended to be a child given up for adoption asking "Why did you give me away mummy?" was so grossly offensive I doubt anyone who was listening could fail to see how toxic her views are.

I think "saccharin" is a good word to describe Ms. O'Brien's whole manner:

"Saccharin is an artificial sweetener.... much sweeter than sucrose, but has a bitter or metallic aftertaste, especially at high concentrations."

Brian Shanahan

aloyisious wrote: »

It's interesting to know that Breda's not a member of Iona, just a patron, that it's not solely Catholic, it has Protestants and non-believers in it's membership. I'm wondering if she's implying that the non-believing members of Iona are in agreement with her Catholic view of marriage.

I wonder how many non-catholics are actually members of an organisation who's sole goal is to restore the foot of the pontiff in its previous position on the face of Ireland crushing the life out of this country.

Nodin

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

I wonder how many non-catholics are actually members of an organisation who's sole goal is to restore the foot of the pontiff in its previous position on the face of Ireland crushing the life out of this country.

...having met a (one, in my 44 years) "ex-catholic" who seemed to have (for no reason I could ascertain) retained the dogma but apparently dropped the religion I would not dismiss the possibility of there being at least one in there, human perversity being what it is.

Brian Shanahan

Nodin wrote: »

...having met a (one, in my 44 years) "ex-catholic" who seemed to have (for no reason I could ascertain) retained the dogma but apparently dropped the religion I would not dismiss the possibility of there being at least one in there, human perversity being what it is.

Oh, I'll grant you there'll always be one, but I honestly can't see too many non-catholics supporting something that wants to supress them, especially as most catholics would run a mile from an Ionaista if they saw one.

ne0ica

Panti is a joke. Who elected that freak spokesperson and chief for the gay community.

iwantmydinner

ne0ica wrote: »

Panti is a joke. Who elected that freak spokesperson and chief for the gay community.

Did you literally register just to spew that?

ne0ica

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Did you literally register just to spew that?

Spew what. If the character panti was created as the new gay character in say fair city people here would decry it as a homophobic stereotype

Delirium

ne0ica wrote: »

Spew what. If the character panti was created as the new gay character in say fair city people here would decry it as a homophobic stereotype

iwantmydinner

ne0ica wrote: »

Spew what. If the character panti was created as the new gay character in say fair city people here would decry it as a homophobic stereotype

Sorry, I should have been clearer, apparently. You were spewing bile. Calling someone a freak would generally fall into the bilious category.

ne0ica

SW wrote: »

Seriously, am I the only person who has difficulty with a middle aged gay man in drag speaking and pontificating on behalf of the gay community. Panti is the sort of thing gay people were dismissed as by mainstream society in the past.

iwantmydinner

ne0ica wrote: »

Seriously, am I the only person who has difficulty with a middle aged gay man in drag speaking and pontificating on behalf of the gay community. Panti is the sort of thing gay people were dismissed as by mainstream society in the past.

"thing" ... Really?

ne0ica

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Sorry, I should have been clearer, apparently. You were spewing bile. Calling someone a freak would generally fall into the bilious category.

Panti is a joke. Almost as silly as Norris. Time the lesbians or a too gay man represented the gay community. These queens are misrepresenting gay people.

dharma200

trolls, jealous trolls x

robindch

ne0ica wrote: »

Panti is a joke. Who elected that freak spokesperson and chief for the gay community.

Nobody elected him to any position and neither does he speak on behalf of anybody. So I don't quite know what you're raving about.

I do know, however, that your attitude will lead to cards and bans, so tone down the hysterical rhetoric or I'll be reaching for my clue stick.

Delirium

ne0ica wrote: »

Seriously, am I the only person who has difficulty with a middle aged gay man in drag speaking and pontificating on behalf of the gay community. Panti is the sort of thing gay people were dismissed as by mainstream society in the past.

I guess you must be. What difference does it make if it's Rory or the character Panti giving the speech? The message is either good or it isn't.

ne0ica

iwantmydinner wrote: »

"thing" ... Really?

You don't actually think panti is really. It's a character created by a gay man.

ne0ica

robindch wrote: »

Nobody elected him to any position and neither does he speak on behalf of anybody. So I don't quite know what you're raving about.

I do know, however, that your attitude will lead to cards and bans, so tone down the hysterical rhetoric or I'll be reaching for my clue stick.

Oh sorry. Maybe we should get the media to get a rapper/drug dealer to represent the African American community in Ireland or a mafia thug to represent the Italian community. Can't believe how many people are championing an outdated stereotype of gay men especially when it comes to such an important issue iike gay marriage

Nodin

ne0ica wrote: »

Oh sorry. Maybe we should get the media to get a rapper/drug dealer to represent the African American community in Ireland or a mafia thug to represent the Italian community. Can't believe how many people are championing an outdated stereotype of gay men especially when it comes to such an important issue iike gay marriage

Yet you also had a pop at Norris, so it seems nothing would satisfy you.

Delirium

ne0ica wrote: »

Oh sorry. Maybe we should get the media to get a rapper/drug dealer to represent the African American community in Ireland or a mafia thug to represent the Italian community. Can't believe how many people are championing an outdated stereotype of gay men especially when it comes to such an important issue iike gay marriage

whose championing a stereotype?? Rory is actually a drag artist. A drag artist is hardly the same as a drug dealer or mafia thug. So do you have a point other than your dislike of drag artists?

ne0ica

SW wrote: »

whose championing a stereotype?? Rory is actually a drag artist. A drag artist is hardly the same as a drug dealer or mafia thug. So do you have a point other than your dislike of drag artists?

It was Rory who went on the Saturday night show yet panti showed up at the abbey and on channel 4 news. Fair play to Rory for promoting his drag business.

iwantmydinner

ne0ica wrote: »

You don't actually think panti is really. It's a character created by a gay man.

Yeah, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Nodin

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Yeah, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Indeed. I had previously assumed it was a benign version of the Jekyl & Hyde arrangement.

ne0ica

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Yeah, thanks for clearing that up for me.

What's wrong with a lesbian woman representing the gay community for a change.

Delirium

ne0ica wrote: »

It was Rory who went on the Saturday night show yet panti showed up at the abbey and on channel 4 news. Fair play to Rory for promoting his drag business.

still not seeing the problem. Panti is a persona Rory adopts on stage, it's entirely conceivable he might feel more comfortable on camera as Panti. So what? It still doesn't warrant your hostile labelling of him as a freak.

All you've done is attacked how the message was delivered rather than the message itself.

Links234

ne0ica wrote: »

Panti is a joke. Who elected that freak spokesperson and chief for the gay community.

Nodin

ne0ica wrote: »

What's wrong with a lesbian woman representing the gay community for a change.

Nothing. However Panti/Rory wasn't representing the gay community, and was brought into prominence in the media due to his remarks and the subsequent row.

Zillah

Why on Earth is anyone replying to such a jabbering creature?

ne0ica

SW wrote: »

still not seeing the problem. Panti is a persona Rory adopts on stage, it's entirely conceivable he might feel more comfortable on camera as Panti. So what? It still doesn't warrant your hostile labelling of him as a freak.

All you've done is attacked how the message was delivered rather than the message itself.

Does panti really stop and check herself to see if she looks gay?

ne0ica

Look folks you may want to shoot the messenger here but next year when the referendum fails you may want to look back at this point a see the moment it failed. When a drag queen with a big mouth hijacked the debate.

Delirium

ne0ica wrote: »

Does panti really stop and check herself to see if she looks gay?

Are you saying that Rory was lying? That homophobic abuse isn't still a concern for many homosexuals?

Delirium

ne0ica wrote: »

Look folks you may want to shoot the messenger here but next year when the referendum fails you may want to look back at this point a see the moment it failed. When a drag queen with a big mouth hijacked the debate.

Latest polls put the against side at 19%. Seems a drag artist is more palatable to most compared to the rantings of Iona & Waters.

ne0ica

SW wrote: »

Are you saying that Rory was lying? That homophobic abuse isn't still a concern for many homosexuals?

I actually thought it was funny. if I dressed up in womens clothes I too would stop and check myself.

Links234

ne0ica wrote: »

Look folks you may want to shoot the messenger here but next year when the referendum fails you may want to look back at this point a see the moment it failed. When a drag queen with a big mouth hijacked the debate.

You seem to be trying to appeal to some sort of prejudice you must think people have by pointing out the messenger in this case performs as a drag queen, but are failing to understand that most people probably don't see anything wrong with drag queens.

ne0ica

SW wrote: »

Latest polls put the against side at 19%. Seems a drag artist is more palatable to most compared to the rantings of Iona & Waters.

Don't fool yourself. Ask yourself how seriously straight society take straight men who dress up in women clothes.

mcmoustache

Zillah wrote: »

Why on Earth is anyone replying to such a jabbering creature?

It's saturday night and some of us have to play a gaa match tomorrow and can't be out drinking. That's my excuse anyway.

I was actually about to reply to this guy until I saw your comment. I probably won't bother now.

Thanks a lot, Zillah.

ne0ica

Links234 wrote: »

You seem to be trying to appeal to some sort of prejudice you must think people have by pointing out the messenger in this case performs as a drag queen, but are failing to understand that most people probably don't see anything wrong with drag queens.

Drag queens are for the entertainment and amusement of middle class bores who think eating a Chinese is cosmopolitan and going to a gay bar makes them cool. Panti isn't even a good looking woman.

Delirium

ne0ica wrote: »

Don't fool yourself. Ask yourself how seriously straight society take straight men who dress up in women clothes.

your personal aversion to men in womens clothing notwithstanding, less than 20% oppose marriage equality. And considering the massive public support Rory has received, I'd say that the average citizen isn't as blinkered as you appear to be.

aloyisious

Given that John Waters, Breda Power and David Quinn complained that Panti defamed them by likening their objections to gay marriage as being homophobic, I'd warrant that suggesting the media make a statement likening rappers/drug dealers to African-Americans or a Mafia thug to the Italian community might be seen as urging a similar type of defamation, or even an urging to likening racial backgrounds to specific criminal activity. RTE had to pay out over their complaint. Just an opinion-piece, you understand.

Pherekydes

ne0ica wrote: »

Don't fool yourself. Ask yourself how seriously straight society take straight men who dress up in women clothes.

The referendum on marriage equality isn't about Rory O'Neill/Panti Bliss or the Catholic church or the iOnanists. It's about marriage equality. Society, straight and gay, will realise that and vote accordingly.