Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

tomasrojo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057356011

John_C

RainyDay wrote: »

What do you mean by 'reflectors'?

The law is here. I've got something like this attached to my bike.

The Law wrote:

All bicycles used on public roads in Ireland must at all times display a rear reflector. A rear reflector means a red reflector that can be plainly seen for a distance of 99 meters (325 feet) to the rear when the headlights of a vehicle shine directly on it.

John_C

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'll buy you a pint if you can dig out that link.

Cool, I'll try to dig it up. I remember seeing it in the bikeforums.net site if that helps.

CramCycle

John_C wrote: »

Originally Posted by The Law
All bicycles used on public roads in Ireland must at all times display a rear reflector. A rear reflector means a red reflector that can be plainly seen for a distance of 99 meters (325 feet) to the rear when the headlights of a vehicle shine directly on it.

Luckily for those who are worried, most modern LED rear lights have reflectors built into them which are equivalent to the ones provided by bicycle shops. Never tested the 99metres though.

CatFromHue

John_C wrote: »

I once read a blog post from an american police motorcyclist. Over 3 months, he recorded the number of times a motorist cut him off during his commute to and from work. During the first month he wore his usual clothes and was cut off about once per day. For the second month he wore fluorescent gear and used daytime running lights. For this month, he also got cut off about once per day. For the third month he wore his police uniform and rode his police bike. He only got cut off once that whole month.

I've started to see a few motor bikers wearing a hi viz vest that says POLITE in big letters and then something below it about being nice to motor bikers.

The POLITE is written so it looks exactly like a Police jacket would, even though we've no police over here, but it makes you think Police and you slow down.

Edit: Here's a pic

RainyDay

John_C wrote: »

The law is here. I've got something like this attached to my bike.

So they are already mandatory - no change in law required then, right?

John_C

RainyDay wrote: »

So they are already mandatory - no change in law required then, right?

Yep, the existing laws are entirely adequate.

Macy0161

CatFromHue wrote: »

I've started to see a few motor bikers wearing a hi viz vest that says POLITE in big letters and then something below it about being nice to motor bikers.

The POLITE is written so it looks exactly like a Police jacket would, even though we've no police over here, but it makes you think Police and you slow down.

The motorbike bloke I saw with one last week on the Clonskeagh Road must have thought it actually made him a cop - with the way he filtered up a mandatory cycle lane on the left!

CatFromHue

Macy0161 wrote: »

The motorbike bloke I saw with one last week on the Clonskeagh Road must have thought it actually made him a cop - with the way he filtered up a mandatory cycle lane on the left!

Haha yeah I'd the same experience with the ones I saw. The rules of the road didn't apply to him!

It's not the Hi Viz that catches your eye its the likeness to Police

RainyDay

CatFromHue wrote: »

I've started to see a few motor bikers wearing a hi viz vest that says POLITE in big letters and then something below it about being nice to motor bikers.

The POLITE is written so it looks exactly like a Police jacket would, even though we've no police over here, but it makes you think Police and you slow down.

Edit: Here's a pic

I saw a cyclist with one of these in Dublin, near the Custom House a few weeks back.

Beasty

RainyDay wrote: »

I saw a cyclist with one of these in Dublin, near the Custom House a few weeks back.

It's the sort of thing you often see in the UK. For example it could be a sign by the roadside in a small village - "Polite Notice - Slow Down". Doesn't quite work over here mind ...

Lumen

Beasty wrote: »

It's the sort of thing you often see in the UK. For example it could be a sign by the roadside in a small village - "Polite Notice - Slow Down". Doesn't quite work over here mind ...

It's a bizarre sentence whose mangled construction I find incredibly irritating (amongst many other things mind).

Telling someone you're being polite doesn't make it so. It's like saying "Look mate, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but your girlfriend is a right slapper".

"Please slow down" would be self-evidently polite, rendering the "Polite notice" bit redundant.

CramCycle

A similar jacket could be designed for over here:

Guarded
traffic safety

Not impersonating anyone but if people see something else it's not really my fault is it?

mcgratheoin

Lumen wrote: »

It's a bizarre sentence whose mangled construction I find incredibly irritating (amongst many other things mind).

Telling someone you're being polite doesn't make it so. It's like saying "Look mate, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but your girlfriend is a right slapper".

"Please slow down" would be self-evidently polite, rendering the "Polite notice" bit redundant.

I think the whole point of the "Polite" bit is that it can easily be mistaken for "Police" at a glance.

Lumen

mcgratheoin wrote: »

I think the whole point of the "Polite" bit is that it can easily be mistaken for "Police" at a glance.

That bit is just plain stupid.

Sure, maybe we should all ride around on white hybrids and dress in fake garda costumes to keep ourselves safe?

mcgratheoin

Lumen wrote: »

That bit is just plain stupid.

Sure, maybe we should all ride around on white hybrids and dress in fake garda costumes to keep ourselves safe?

How to stop speeding - stand by the side of the road in hi-vis and point a hairdryer at oncoming cars....

CatFromHue

It works though.

Both times I've seen the jackets the first thing I thought was the rider was part of the Police, yes I know we've no Police here, it was only on second glance that I realised it said Polite.

Melodeon

Impersonating a Garda is a specific offence:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0020/sec0060.html

magicbastarder

wearing that jacket in ireland would not count though, as the gardai do not wear jackets which say 'police' on them.

Melodeon

Ah I know, and I'd suppose that the main intention of the law is directed at those who might engage in criminal activity while passing themselves off as members of an Garda Siochana, but there must be a point somewhere along the continuum of confusion for a moment at first glance / taking the piss / premeditated criminality at which the criminal justice system begins to take an active interest.
I'm sure it'd depend on what you were doing at the time and your attitude when confronted, but I'd be shy of setting myself up as the test case for what is or isn't 'impersonating a Garda'

magicbastarder

i once had an amusing exchange with a motorist who had just tried to kill me on the chapelizod road, on the narrow section at the bottom of knockmaroon hill.
she threatened the cops on me (i'd given her car an open handed slap, as she had pulled over on top of me, sandwiching me between her car and the kerb), and i was in agreement that yes, we should involve them as her driving was, well, lacking. she then shot back with 'but *I* am a garda', so i said fine, let's involve the cops and i'll tell them you claimed you were one. she floored the car and drove off at speed.

Carawaystick

John_C wrote: »

The law is here. I've got something like this attached to my bike.

I call shennanigans

There is no way we'd get a law that specifies 99m as a distance.
There is also the undefined luminosity of the car headlights, plus the fact if the're yellow instead of white, there will be much less red light to reflect.

Find a SI or Act to quote as "the law"

buffalo

Carawaystick wrote: »

I call shennanigans

There is no way we'd get a law that specifies 99m as a distance.
There is also the undefined luminosity of the car headlights, plus the fact if the're yellow instead of white, there will be much less red light to reflect.

Find a SI or Act to quote as "the law"

That's why it says 325 feet after it.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/si/0189.html

(6) Every obligatory rear reflector shall be so constructed, fitted and maintained as to be plainly visible at night time in clear weather for a distance of 325 feet when illuminated by the head lamps of a mechanically propelled vehicle directly behind.

edit: quoted wrong part. I'm not sure if this part still refers to bicycles...

magicbastarder

but the problem is how bright the reflector appears is also very much dependent on how bright the light shining on it is, as well as its own own native reflectivity. so specifying a distance from which it must be visible is a very vague benchmark.

unless the person who drew up the text on the citizens information page got the law arseways - the measure quoted for reflectors in the CI article seems to be pulled from the measure quoted for lights in the statute book.

cdaly_

buffalo wrote: »

That's why it says 325 feet after it.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/si/0189.html#zzsi189y1963a26

the distance of 325 feet is interesting. 330 feet is 1/16 of a mile or 1/2 of a furlong and would seem to be a better choice for the statute book of the time.
I wonder was there a 100m value in some european statute which translated to 328 feet and it was decided to round this down rather than up as to round it up could have eliminated some hypothetical european legal vehicle from being legal here for the sake of 2 feet of lamp range.

cdaly_

magicbastarder wrote: »

but the problem is how bright the reflector appears is also very much dependent on how bright the light shining on it is, as well as its own own native reflectivity. so specifying a distance from which it must be visible is a very vague benchmark.

However, it also specifies the size and shape of the reflector and requires that a headlamp be powerfull enough to reach the reflector.

unless the person who drew up the text on the citizens information page got the law arseways - the measure quoted for reflectors in the CI article seems to be pulled from the measure quoted for lights in the statute book.

The statute book separately specifies 325 feet for both range of a headlamp (though not for a bicycle headlamp) and for visibility of a rear reflector. Presumably it is trying to say that your reflector should become visible once it comes within the prescribed range for a headlamp.

Carawaystick

cdaly_ wrote: »

the distance of 325 feet is interesting. 330 feet is 1/16 of a mile or 1/2 of a furlong and would seem to be a better choice for the statute book of the time.
I wonder was there a 100m value in some european statute which translated to 328 feet and it was decided to round this down rather than up as to round it up could have eliminated some hypothetical european legal vehicle from being legal here for the sake of 2 feet of lamp range.

There wouldn't have been any European statute in 1963...

cdaly_

^^^
Other european country's statute...

CramCycle

Carawaystick wrote: »

There wouldn't have been any European statute in 1963...

Its not as if we just copied other countries laws with the same general outlook on life socially (sort of/close enough), made them stricter, ran them past the church and then signed them into law.

RainyDay

John_C wrote: »

Yep, the existing laws are entirely adequate.

Great, though I'm a bit confused by why you said:

John_C wrote: »

The government should pass a law making both lights and reflectors mandatory at night. Surely that would be the best of both worlds?

CramCycle wrote: »

A similar jacket could be designed for over here:

How about


Lake
GARDA
is lovely

You couldn't be accused of impersonation surely, when you're just trying to help out the Italian Tourist Board?