Irish Cycling Legislation

randomname2005

tomasrojo wrote: »

Amber pedal reflectors not illegal. Relevant statute earlier in thread.

Apologies, I quoted the legislation from the OP which discusses this.

Chips Lovell

tomasrojo wrote: »

Amber pedal reflectors not illegal. Relevant statute earlier in thread.

randomname2005 wrote: »

Apologies, I quoted the legislation from the OP which discusses this.

Here's the link.

rubadub

randomname2005 wrote: »

Agree with these, except the last one. I find that a bell gets attention without abuse or other objects hurled at you.

I recently came up with the perfect roar to let out, one simple word -hello...

Seems to work a treat, I have had every person react fine and look around and stand out of the way, including gangs of young lads, type of lads if I had roared out some previous phrases like "move" or "watch out" might have turned and gone "who de fcuk are you telling me what to do". As hello has no instruction or inferrence that they are doing something wrong they do not seem to be offended or act up in any way. And most people know what it means too, had a group of 5-6 Japanese tourists last week wandering down the N11 oblivious.

A bell is fairly useless to me, I am usually only shouting at people far ahead of me stupidly walking down cycle tracks in the flow of traffic.

kerry4sam

rubadub wrote: »

I recently came up with the perfect roar to let out, one simple word -hello...

Seems to work a treat, I have had every person react fine and look around and stand out of the way, including gangs of young lads, type of lads if I had roared out some previous phrases like "move" or "watch out" might have turned and gone "who de fcuk are you telling me what to do". As hello has no instruction or inferrence that they are doing something wrong they do not seem to be offended or act up in any way. And most people know what it means too, had a group of 5-6 Japanese tourists last week wandering down the N11 oblivious.

A bell is fairly useless to me, I am usually only shouting at people far ahead of me stupidly walking down cycle tracks in the flow of traffic.

You know what, when I was cycling in Spain last August, my bike came equipped with a bell. I used the bell once and just felt so guilty, I actually felt bad, for having used it! I was cycling in parts on a route primarily used by walkers but found it much nicer to just say 'excuse me' , or 'hello' or even just asking 'how are you'. People at times still got a fright, some with headphones on noticed the shadow of the bike approaching and moved without a word uttered from me.
I just could not get myself to use the bell again after feeling so guilty when I used it once.
Now, at times, on some rocky sections, the bell would ring automatic from the vibrations and I'd try keep a finger on it to make the damn thing stop.

Maybe that's just me though. I just couldn't get myself to use the bell to basically ask people to give me more space in order to pass. A gentle word worked just fine I found
kerry4sam

tomasrojo

I had a bell for a short while which came with the bike I was cycling at the time, but I found people were either affronted or feigned obnoxious amusement when I used it. I stopped using it and have never bothered fitting one since then.

I can see it could be of some use (and use of bells is widespread and unexceptional in many countries), but it's a strange legal requirement, since it's hard to make a compelling reason for not cycling without one.

I assume the origin of the law was in people complaining about cyclists silently "coming out of nowhere", and the age-old "something must be done; this is something" analysis was applied.

Lumen

The best argument for fitting and using a bell is that it gives you a clear defence when you incidentally run over some headphones-clad pedestrotard who doesn't look before crossing.

tomasrojo

Pedestrians who silently "come out of nowhere"? There's a solution for that:
http://popupcity.net/pedestrian-bell-the-urban-gadget-weve-been-waiting-for/

fat bloke

Yeah, I've got bells on my daughters bikes and I do get faintly embarrassed when they ring them and people jump out out of the way. I think Irish people aren't used to cycle bells so they get a bit of a shock when they hear them.

Also, I'm trying to impress on my girls that the bell is trying to say "I do beg your pardon, would you mind awfully stepping aside momentarily to let me through" as opposed to "Oi, get the fcuk out the way!"

iAcesHigh

I know this is kind of stupid question and maybe even answered before, but I'd like to check if I'm getting this wrong.

Imagine you're driving on a road without cycling lane, but with bus lane. Keeping left rule says we have to keep the most left on the road, but does that include the most left side of the "normal", car lane or most left lane in general which is mostly the bus lane?

tomasrojo

In practice, you'd keep to the left of the bus lane, unless you were approaching a junction or roundabout. I assume the legal situation is that since you're allowed to use the bus lane, that would the leftmost of "your" lanes. In practical terms, it would quite hair-raising to have fast traffic passing you on the left and right, were you to stick to the left side of the "normal" traffic lane (again, unless you're approaching a junction or roundabout).

Chips Lovell

I'd have to check again, but as far as I can recall there is no specific law governing bicycles and positioning within a lane, which means the same rules that apply to other vehicles also apply to bikes. In that case, you can either position yourself in the bus lane or one of other the traffic lanes.

iAcesHigh

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I'd have to check again, but as far as I can recall there is no specific law governing bicycles and positioning within a lane, which means the same rules that apply to other vehicles also apply to bikes. In that case, you can either position yourself in the bus lane or one of other the traffic lanes.

if there is no specific law doesn't that mean that the same rules apply to bikes as other vehicles in a sense that bikes should be on the bus lane?

Chips Lovell

Law says that buses, taxis and bikes may use the bus lane, not that they have to use it.

tomasrojo

There is a law about not impeding the progress of following traffic, which usually is interpreted as "keep left", but I suppose it doesn't have to mean that.

Can't remember the law, but think this tractor driver fell foul of it:
http://www.irishtimes.com/tractor-driver-banned-over-7km-traffic-tailback-1.2177126

iAcesHigh

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Law says that buses, taxis and bikes may use the bus lane, not that they have to use it.

didn't know that, great, thanks! I was in that lane most of the times since, as mentioned before, it felt weird getting traffic on the left and right side...

Chips Lovell

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print#zzsi294y1964a10

Obligation to drive on the left and to use traffic lanes

17.—(1) A driver shall drive as near to the left hand side of the roadway as is necessary in order to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or a pedestrian, approaching traffic to pass him on his right and overtaking traffic to overtake him on his right.

(2) Save on a one-way roadway, a driver shall drive to the left of a traffic refuge.

(3) A driver shall not drive from one traffic lane to another without good cause, and without yielding the right of way to traffic in that other lane.

The tractor driver was prosecuted under this legislation:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/enacted/en/print#sec52

52.—(1) A person shall not drive a vehicle in a public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the place.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

tomasrojo

That seems a very complete answer to the original question! Use the left of the bus lane to allow following traffic to overtake you on the right.

Lumen

tomasrojo wrote: »

That seems a very complete answer to the original question! Use the left of the bus lane to allow following traffic to overtake you on the right.

Near where I live there are part time bus lanes, clearly signposted with the times of operation. I drive in the bus lane when it is not in operation. I am alone in this.

I can never work out whether this is because nobody gives a damn about keeping left (supporting evidence: MLMs on motorways), because nobody reads the signs, or because the solid white line of the bus lane represents a sort of holy ground which cannot be violated by the superstitious locals regardless of signage.

tomasrojo

MLM: Middle Lane Moron? Something like that?

Chips Lovell

tomasrojo wrote: »

That seems a very complete answer to the original question!

Yep. I'd been meaning to dig our the relevant statutes for some time, so now have them for future reference.

cdaly_

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print#zzsi294y1964a10

Obligation to drive on the left and to use traffic lanes

17.—(1) A driver shall drive as near to the left hand side of the roadway as is necessary in order to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or a pedestrian, approaching traffic to pass him on his right and overtaking traffic to overtake him on his right.

This bit is interesting. Many would interpret "as near to the left hand side of the roadway" as meaning we should cycle in the gutter while the only obligation is to allow oncoming traffic to pass on the right and to allow overtaking traffic to overtake on the right. If there is room on the right-hand side of the roadway for overtaking traffic, that suffices.

On that basis, I tend to cycle one third of the width of the lane out from the kerb which encourages following traffic to make proper overtakes rather than close in-lane passes.

Chips Lovell

That's what I take from it too. There's a widespread impression that cyclists are obliged to cycle in the gutter, which is incorrect.

galwaycyclist

cdaly_ wrote: »

This bit is interesting. Many would interpret "as near to the left hand side of the roadway" as meaning we should cycle in the gutter while the only obligation is to allow oncoming traffic to pass on the right and to allow overtaking traffic to overtake on the right. If there is room on the right-hand side of the roadway for overtaking traffic, that suffices.

On that basis, I tend to cycle one third of the width of the lane out from the kerb which encourages following traffic to make proper overtakes rather than close in-lane passes.

Sure but in the primary legislation which is the roads acts and road traffic acts, there is an overarching duty to avoid injury to yourself or property.

So you could argue that there is not obligation to permit others to overtake where such an overtaking manoeuvre might place you in danger.

iAcesHigh

I never cycle in the gutter since I got used to cycling closer to 1m from the edge - back in Croatia law states that bikes have a right to 1m of the road from the edge (one of very few specific rules without anything blurry around it)

schemingbohemia

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print#zzsi294y1964a10

Obligation to drive on the left and to use traffic lanes


The tractor driver was prosecuted under this legislation:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/enacted/en/print#sec52

They were revoked by the 1997 Road Traffic Regulations
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print

Drive on Left9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.

RainyDay

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

That's what I take from it too. There's a widespread impression that cyclists are obliged to cycle in the gutter, which is incorrect.

One of the Road Safety Authority videos for cyclists tells cyclists to 'stay well out from the kerb - you are as entitled to your road space as any other user'. I know it's not legally binding, but it is a strong support.

HivemindXX

I had a look but I don't see anything about where you can legally lock your bike. I was under the impression that it was legal to lock your bike to a street sign, however this 'notice' which was taped to a pole off Grafton Street claims it is only legal to use official bike parking facilities. If this is true how do we know what's an official bike parking facility and what isn't?

Beasty

Can't imagine it's legal to lock or attach anything (including for example election posters) to any road sign, particularly as their format and notices contained therein are governed by legislation.

They may be owned by public authorities but that does not grant a licence for members of the public to do what they want with them.

If something is not marked as being available to lock bikes to I would imagine the owners of the relevant property are perfectly at liberty to remove any bike a member of the public attaches

HivemindXX

Beasty wrote: »

Can't imagine it's legal to lock or attach anything (including for example election posters) to any road sign, particularly as their format and notices contained therein are governed by legislation.

They may be owned by public authorities but that does not grant a licence for members of the public to do what they want with them.

If something is not marked as being available to lock bikes to I would imagine the owners of the relevant property are perfectly at liberty to remove any bike a member of the public attaches

No bike rack has a notice saying that locking bikes is permitted. So based your theory where do you think it is legal to lock a bike?

Anywhere on the public road where it is not forbidden by law parking is permitted. Do you think it makes sense that parking cars is permitted anywhere not explicitly forbidden but the reverse is true for bicycles?

Do you have anything other than your imagination to go on?

rubadub

HivemindXX wrote: »

this 'notice' which was taped to a pole off Grafton Street claims it is only legal to use official bike parking facilities.

Did the poster mention the word legal or illegal at all?

It looks like it was written by someone wanting to sound "official" so used that word. These types seem to love their capitals too. If it was even put up by the council at all, it would not surprise me if some shopkeeper would put it up.

The person that did put it up could be unaware of the law, just like many gardai are, you hear of lads being asked by gardai where their helmet is, as though its a legal requirement.