Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

Gatling

WakeUp wrote: »

Russia annexed Crimea which I do not agree with. and is currently involved in the murder and mayhem taking place in Ukraine. from day one I have acknowledged this as fact and not once denied it. but you continue to perform tricks to help justify the Ukrainian nazi battalions in your own mind if that makes you feel better. because they are wholesome good nazis. and that little stunt you pulled over in after hours making up a quote on my behalf and putting my name to it was bad form. it was pathetic. Ill let that go once. dont ever do that again.

Are they Ukrainians defending there country from Russian forces in Ukraine

Yes or No

PopePalpatine

Funnily enough, you never see much mentioned of Nazis in the pro-Russian militias by the Putiniks.

Gatling

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Funnily enough, you never see much mentioned of Nazis in the pro-Russian militias by the Putiniks.

That would upset the whole Ukrainian are bold boys and girls been punished by putin and the kremlin for wanting freedom and democracy

oldozer

WakeUp wrote: »

If that does transpire at some stage in the future its going to be a brutal battle. whatever about their ideology the defenders of Mariupol some of them at least will be if nothing else "committed".





I was reading that link in another site. Reminded me of a BBC article I read some time ago where the symbols on some of the helmets were blotted out. Media will play it's part in this event about us. For what it may be worth I have also read of this having to kick off before the 17th. A mix of some boffin who would use strategy/astrology to bolster his idea. Seemed fairly feasible to this old mind at the time of reading. Won't have long to wait to see that idea play out.

Committed seems to be a non word sort of thing as I recall all the heavy Armour left by the retreating Ukrainian soldiers. Such a lot of kit lying about intact. Why some commander or other never thought to toss a few grenades into solid tanks and the like defies logic ? Mariupol sadly is going to be a game changer.

Dozer.

Gatling

Ukraine has officially submitted a request to the UN for a peace keeping mission to be deployed to eastern Ukraine


http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-requests-peacekeeping-mission-29607545

BoJack Horseman

Gatling wrote: »

Ukraine has officially submitted a request to the UN for a peace keeping mission to be deployed to eastern Ukraine


http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-requests-peacekeeping-mission-29607545

Anyone who wants peace would support this.

It will never happen though.

It will be vetoed & no one would contribute troops.

gandalf

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Anyone who wants peace would support this.

It will never happen though.

It will be vetoed & no one would contribute troops.

This is not going to happen because there is no way the Russians would let it. If the UN did agree and did deploy you could be guaranteed that an "unknown force" would attack the peacekeepers and there would be causalities.

Gatling

gandalf wrote: »

This is not going to happen because there is no way the Russians would let it. If the UN did agree and did deploy you could be guaranteed that an "unknown force" would attack the peacekeepers and there would be causalities.

That's it exactly and considering there's Serbs and Chechens heavily involved with the Russians I would expect it .

Maybe a peace enforcement mission sponsored by the EU but that wouldn't happen either

Rumors coming out of Russia there's apparently changes coming over the next few day
expect the resignation of prime minister Dmitry Medvedev and been replaced by Sergei Ivanov former minister for defence.

oldozer

Any tweets on Russian Embassy staff leaving London ?

Just something I read but I would also think the Saudi's would be worth a watch.

Dozer.

WakeUp

gandalf wrote: »

I don't like Nazi's either Wakeup and I am certainly am not making excuses for them as you put it but I am not buying the Russian Propaganda that a couple of militias represent the whole of the Ukraine. It certainly is NOT a reason for Russia to invade, dismember and de-stabilise the Ukraine.

Straight question WakeUp do you believe the Russia actions against the Ukraine are justified?

Why do you seem to be making excuses for the Russians meddling in another countries business like the Nazis did in 1938/9?

no I dont. are you sure Im making excuses Gandalf? are you...

WakeUp

so..finally..Nato tells it as it is..Ukraine isnt its responsibility.

NATO Chief: Ukraine Not Our Responsibility

The conflict in eastern Ukraine is not NATO's responsibility despite Russia's "violation of international law", the alliance's Secretary General has said.

Jens Stoltenberg also told Sky News the UK must maintain its military contributions to the organisation, which is set at 2% of GDP.

But, asked if NATO would do anything stop Vladimir Putin's forces in Ukraine, he said: "Our main responsibility is to defend and to protect all NATO allies and no NATO ally has been attacked.

"So deterrence is working because everyone sees that NATO is a very strong alliance and we are now implementing the biggest reinforcement of our collective defence since the end of the Cold War.

"Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so there is a difference between Ukraine and NATO members, because the security guarantee is for NATO allies.

http://news.sky.com/story/1444723/nato-chief-ukraine-not-our-responsibility?

MOD: Please see friendly reminder below.

oldozer

Twitter again.

I have no idea how that infernal thing works. But it does appear Zolotov is now dead also. He of course would be Putin's head of security ?

Dozer.

Gatling

oldozer wrote: »

Twitter again.

I have no idea how that infernal thing works. But it does appear Zolotov is now dead also. He of course would be Putin's head of security ?

Dozer.

Haven't heard a peep been honest there's so much crap and pro russian propaganda it's hard to believe a lot of the posts on twitter .

In saying that seems a few of Viktor Yanukovich friends /ministers have meet untimely ends by committing suicide in the last few weeks while awaiting trails .

I'd thought the Russians and pro putins on here would be screaming blue murder about it

Black Swan

WakeUp wrote: »

so..finally..Nato tells it as it is..Ukraine isnt its responsibility.

MOD FRIENDLY REMINDER: We are a discussion forum, and you are encouraged to discuss this issue in our own words a bit more, rather than cut-and-paste a rather large discussion from another source. Thanks.

WakeUp

In a documentary aired in Russia Putin has claimed they were ready and prepared to use their nuclear weapons if needed. so what do people think is he bluffing or what...

Vladimir Putin says Russia was preparing to use nuclear weapons 'if necessary' and blames US for Ukraine crisis in Crimea documentary:

Vladimir Putin has said Russia was so fearful of attack at the height of the Ukraine crisis that it was preparing to arm its nuclear weapons, in extraordinary claims aired on state TV on Sunday night.

Amid ongoing Russian media speculation that the President was watching the Crimea documentary from his sickbed, Mr Putin’s full interview with Rossiya One provided new insight into his country’s involvement in the annexation of the Black Sea peninsula.

And on Russia’s willingness to arm nuclear weapons if necessary, Mr Putin said: “We were ready to do this ... (Crimea) is our historical territory. Russian people live there. They were in danger. We cannot abandon them.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-says-russia-was-preparing-to-use-nuclear-weapons-if-necessary-and-blames-us-for-ukraine-crisis-in-crimea-documentary-10109615.html

Natowhooyawarrior sect has gone a bit quite since Nato came out and stated the bleedin obvious. whats going on there lads...notwithstanding the Nato statement do the warriors still believe it a good idea or the right course of action for Nato to become involved in Ukraine?....

Fiery mutant

Well I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you believe what he is saying, but then again, when he's probably paying your wages, then why shouldn't you.

I for one wouldnt believe a word he says, he is a proven liar, and to be honest, he's a master at it. Russia was never under threat from NATO, the U.S. didn't arm militant groups in Poland or Lithuania, and I doubt they have in Ukraine for that matter.

Next he'll be blaming the U.S. for inventing the Tayto bar as a way of putting Russian crisp smuggling villains out of business.

WakeUp

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Well I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you believe what he is saying, but then again, when he's probably paying your wages, then why shouldn't you.

I for one wouldnt believe a word he says, he is a proven liar, and to be honest, he's a master at it. Russia was never under threat from NATO, the U.S. didn't arm militant groups in Poland or Lithuania, and I doubt they have in Ukraine for that matter.

Next he'll be blaming the U.S. for inventing the Tayto bar as a way of putting Russian crisp smuggling villains out of business.

well I guess you guessed wrong didnt you .Vlad doesnt pay my wages theres a middleman involved. actually its a woman and shes fantastic craic altogether. get it right will you. we are hiring by the way anyone looking for a job give us a shout its hard to find good bots these days. so that would be a no then. hmmmm. you must be a high roller. or a bit nuts. would you be prepared to call his bluff over their potential use of nuclear weapons?? and maybe get us all dead in the process.

Fiery mutant

There was never a chance of them using nuclear weapons. This is one more lie to try to make it out to the world like Russia is the victim in all this, and the big bad west are the bullies.

Putin likes to think he is a big man, and his macho image among Russians is one of his favourite dick stroking exercises, but to the rest of the world he is nothing but a deluded fantasist.

WakeUp

Fiery mutant wrote: »

There was never a chance of them using nuclear weapons. This is one more lie to try to make it out to the world like Russia is the victim in all this, and the big bad west are the bullies.

Putin likes to think he is a big man, and his macho image among Russians is one of his favourite dick stroking exercises, but to the rest of the world he is nothing but a deluded fantasist.

Christ almighty. how can you state and know such a thing with such certainty?? does that mean you would be prepared to call his bluff and find out? so the Ukrainians have stated they want Crimea back and will do all in their power to make that happen which is of course understandable from their point of view if futile. because they dont have the power let alone the brains to make that happen on their own. which means unless the receive outside help ( Nato ) it isnt going to happen for them. would you be prepared to send Nato in and call Putins bluff?....

Fiery mutant

This is not about the future of Crimea or its retrieval back to Ukraine. (But to answer that question anyway, I'll say no) this is about Russia's past actions in annexing Crimea and Putins claim to have been ready to use nuclear weapons.

Putin is just dick waving, and nothing more. Throwing up a smokescreen to try to convince people that Russia was in fear for its statehood, when there was never any such threat. There was never any talk of NATO or weapon supply until Russia sent troops into Crimea, and then into Ukraine. And even then, Putin knew this was never going to be a realistic possibility.

Gatling

So the currently MIA czar Vlad will be watching his own documentry tonight.

Funny how we're still hearing big bad Nato started all of this .
Nato Nato Nato every other post it's the worse game of deflection ever

BoJack Horseman

WakeUp wrote: »

In a documentary aired in Russia Putin has claimed they were ready and prepared to use their nuclear weapons if needed. so what do people think is he bluffing or what...

Do you think he is bluffing?

WakeUp

Fiery mutant wrote: »

This is not about the future of Crimea or its retrieval back to Ukraine. (But to answer that question anyway, I'll say no) this is about Russia's past actions in annexing Crimea and Putins claim to have been ready to use nuclear weapons.

Putin is just dick waving, and nothing more. Throwing up a smokescreen to try to convince people that Russia was in fear for its statehood, when there was never any such threat. There was never any talk of NATO or weapon supply until Russia sent troops into Crimea, and then into Ukraine. And even then, Putin knew this was never going to be a realistic possibility.

Ukraine and Crimea are pawns. whether people realise it now or are prepared to admit it or not because it inst a nice thought - Russia and the West are at war. whilst people in the west find it hard to comprehend a potential war with Russia or nuclear showdown with them because it could never happen or something the Russians are the opposite. and the Russians are deadly serious. they are and have been preparing for a nuclear showdown for a number of years. theres a number of strange things happening at the moment. for the past week internet Data from the UKs nuclear weapons establishment and other sensitive information was being sent through Ukraine by mistake. the British are saying it was "accidental" and the information is encrypted and therefore safe but in this day and age that means little. from what I can gather they are tasked with managing and delivering the UKs nuclear warheads. and the Americans tie into this too. the Russian military has been activated and is on high alert and they have been carrying out massive rocket maneuvers all along their southern borders. this isnt a game nor a d1ck waving contest its very real.

WakeUp

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Do you think he is bluffing?

nope.

BoJack Horseman

WakeUp wrote: »

nope.

Me neither.

What is becoming ever more apparent is that Putin appears to be descending into an ever more obvious state of paranoia.

The oft-repeated situation where a man with absolute total control starting to crack.

Gatling

So who was he going to nuke exactly .
Ukraine
The EU
America
Nato .

Think its time for a regime change

BoJack Horseman

Gatling wrote: »

Think its time for a regime change

There is no mechanism to do so.

Vlad has become so corrupted by absolute power, the Russian people have no proper mechanism to remove him.

Fiery mutant

Even if they could I don't think they would, his approval rating is higher than Jesus.

The only thing that is going to remove him now is an internal coup, or assassination.

gandalf

WakeUp wrote: »

In a documentary aired in Russia Putin has claimed they were ready and prepared to use their nuclear weapons if needed. so what do people think is he bluffing or what...



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-says-russia-was-preparing-to-use-nuclear-weapons-if-necessary-and-blames-us-for-ukraine-crisis-in-crimea-documentary-10109615.html

Natowhooyawarrior sect has gone a bit quite since Nato came out and stated the bleedin obvious. whats going on there lads...notwithstanding the Nato statement do the warriors still believe it a good idea or the right course of action for Nato to become involved in Ukraine?....

So what are you actually saying here, bend over and take it? The last time Europe did this there was a very heavy price exerted.

If what is being reported is accurate then we do have a rogue nation on European borders that does have to be stood up to. The only threat Russia has over Europe after the Natural Gas lever is diminished (and they are actively looking to mitigate it) is Nuclear Weapons. Does this mean that every little crisis is going to be greeted with the Russias rolling out the big missiles.

The reaction to this latest revelation should be very clear and it is not moving more military forces into the location it is crippling the Russian economy and making the regime of Vladimir Putin and his criminal cronies untenable.

Anytime you respond to blatant aggression by capitulation only results in more aggression because it worked the first time.

BoJack Horseman

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Even if they could I don't think they would, his approval rating is higher than Jesus.

That isn't hard, but wouldn't matter anyway.

Total power is maintained thus:
- Remove term limits
- decrease election frequency by 1/3
- expel or imprison political opponents
- murder dissenting journalists.
- acquire & suppress broadcast media.
- create a huge party system of tens of thousands of apparatchiks, use same to intimidate opponents.
- create a perception of internal & external threat, use the same controlled media to reinforce fear.

- & to make doubly sure, just fraudulently misappropriate elections anyway.