Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

gallag

S.R. wrote: »

gallag, poor victim of incest, bastard is your surname and your destiny, stinking scumbag you are!

WTF? Seek help.

S.R.

gallag wrote: »

WTF? Seek help.

I am asking you again: who did you call a misunderstood bastard?

gallag

S.R. wrote: »

I am asking you again: who did you call a misunderstood bastard?

I shall not be replying to you any further, I repeat, seek help!

S.R.

gallag wrote: »

I shall not be replying to you any further, I repeat, seek help!

You shall not be calling names if you are not ready to answer.

sopretty

S.R. you complete nincompoop (I'm trying to not breach the charter). Gallag was referring to Hitler. Humorously. Well........ I got it anyway!

S.R.

Yesterday in Ternopol (Western Ukraine):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8RfZTn_QxI

Ukranian right wing scum attacked administrative building. Police just looked and did nothing.
Kiev hello! Where is Anti-Terrorist Operation?

sopretty

S.R. wrote: »

Yesterday in Ternopol (Western Ukraine):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8RfZTn_QxI

Ukranian right wing scum attacked administrative building. Police just looked and did nothing.
Kiev hello! Where is Anti-Terrorist Operation?

You seem to forget that the Ukraine is allowed to protect anything within Ukraine. It's not like they went to Moscow and attacked an administrative building there? Do you fail to acknowledge the right of Ukrainians to protect their own country?

S.R.

sopretty wrote: »

S.R. you complete nincompoop (I'm trying to not breach the charter). Gallag was referring to Hitler. Humorously. Well........ I got it anyway!

1. Always keep in mind that English is not my first language, often I struggle especially when slang or fancy words are used.
2. That's why I have asked gallag "who is misunderstood" before I said anything.
3. If he was talking about Hitler, then I apologies. I am sorry!

sopretty

S.R. wrote: »

1. Always keep in mind that English is not my first language, often I struggle especially when slang or fancy words are used.
2. That's why I have asked gallag "who is misunderstood" before I said anything.
3. If he was talking about Hitler, then I apologies. I am sorry!

1. Don't order me what to do.
2. As above.
3. As above.

:P

S.R.

sopretty wrote: »

You seem to forget that the Ukraine is allowed to protect anything within Ukraine. It's not like they went to Moscow and attacked an administrative building there? Do you fail to acknowledge the right of Ukrainians to protect their own country?

Ukraine is mistake of Russian Tsars and Communist rulers.
Ukraine is artificial state.
Hopefully Putin will correct past mistakes.
Putin started well with Crimea but in last few weeks lost time. Russian Army should be in Kiev by now. At least territory east to Sumy-Kiev-Odessa line has to be under Russian control. I do not know what Putin is waiting for. Probably he is playing his own game like in Crimea, where he managed to bring it back under Russia's control without a single shot.

S.R.

sopretty wrote: »

1. Don't order me what to do.
2. As above.
3. As above.

:P

Order??? What are you talking about?
I forgot to mention that I also struggle with your logic.

sopretty

S.R. wrote: »

Ukraine is mistake of Russian Tsars and Communist rulers.
Ukraine is artificial state.
Hopefully Putin will correct past mistakes.
Putin started well with Crimea but in last few weeks lost time. Russian Army should be in Kiev by now. At least territory east to Sumy-Kiev-Odessa line has to be under Russian control. I do not know what Putin is waiting for. Probably he is playing his own game like in Crimea, where he managed to bring it back under Russia's control without a single shot.

For a start, there have been shots fired. You believe, as Putin does, that Ukraine belongs to Russia?

S.R.

Sorry, MoD has started. Can't talk now.
Man U managed by Giggs - what a shame!

S.R.

gallag, look how quick you are to thank sopretty. If you were as quick to answer my reasonable question, then there wouldn't be what followed.

S.R.

sopretty wrote: »

For a start, there have been shots fired. You believe, as Putin does, that Ukraine belongs to Russia?

Shots were fired by ukranian provocators. Russians didn't fire shots while taking Crimea under control.

sopretty wrote: »

For a start, there have been shots fired. You believe, as Putin does, that Ukraine belongs to Russia?

Did he say this to you personally?

Scofflaw

S.R. wrote: »

gallag, poor victim of incest, bastard is your surname and your destiny, stinking scumbag you are!

Hmm. Sometimes these permabans just write themselves.

moderately,
Scofflaw

gallag

S.R. wrote: »

gallag, look how quick you are to thank sopretty. If you were as quick to answer my reasonable question, then there wouldn't be what followed.

Ok, I said I would not reply to you again but I will one more time, I would of replied to you earlier, I understand English is not your first language and I would have cleared up that I was talking about hitler but my son needed put to bed, my wife is sick and my daughter wanted to watch some sh1t film with me, all these things take priority over replying on boards. Mabey from now on you should have patience before ranting about incest etc.

Wurzelbert

gallag wrote: »

Did he not order the deaths of millions of Jews? Is that not a bit mental?

that‘s more of an emotional or even childish way of looking at it…by that logic a great many leaders throughout history would have been mentally ill…

Wurzelbert

Jonny7 wrote: »

I wouldn't describe him as mentally ill. The man was an extreme racist and had strong imperialist desires, but there have been many like him throughout history - he just happened to be one of the more "successful" in terms of sheer scale and industrialised killing he managed

In person, he was very affable, had a keen political intellect, charmed most of the Europe's (and the world's) leaders and politicians before going on to exact what many far right types still fantasise about

Mentally ill? no, that's a scapegoat - he was very calculating and knew exactly what he wanted, which is far worse

(edit obviously toward the end of the war, under massive stress, and on a huge amount of meds, I would say his mental capacity was affected)

yep, think that describes it pretty well...

Wurzelbert

gallag wrote: »

Did he not order the deaths of millions of Jews? Is that not a bit mental?

also, basically nothing hitler and the nazis did hadnd’t been done or at least attempted before in and by many countries and leaders…there was nothing new there…

Reekwind

sopretty wrote: »

You seem to forget that the Ukraine is allowed to protect anything within Ukraine

Which assumes that "Ukraine" as a unitary polity still exists. Whatever about the territorial state of Ukraine, it is clear that the central state authorities in Kiev enjoy little popularity and less authority in the east of the country.

Which is the fundamental problem here. Talking of Russia and Ukraine is pointless when the key divisions lie within Ukraine itself. It assumes, for example, that the Kiev government has the right (and duty!) to impose itself on a population had no say in its formation/election and is deeply suspicious of it. The best thing now is to put in place a government or political settlement that is acceptable to all of Ukraine, not just the western regions that backed the Euromaidan movement.

Until that happens, using force to impose Kiev's rule in the east is just counter-productive. It's a minority government using repression to achieve its political aims - no better, and arguably worse, than the conduct of Yanukovych.

Mind you, I can understand if any sort of nuance flies over the heads of people who would ascribe the Holocaust to the supposed mental illness of one man.

jimeryan22

Wurzelbert wrote: »

also, basically nothing hitler and the nazis did hadnd’t been done or at least attempted before in and by many countries and leaders…there was nothing new there…

No one had thought up gassing people to death and burning them in big ovens pal.... Let alone attempted it.... Come on

Reekwind

jimeryan22 wrote: »

No one had thought up gassing people to death and burning them in big ovens pal.... Let alone attempted it.... Come on

Personally I don't subscribe to Wurzelbert's state for exactly the reason that you point out: it's overly reductionist. That said, it is fair to say that the key components of the Final Solution (genocide, concentration camps, racial hierarchies, etc) had all been practised by European colonial powers in the preceding decades. In many ways the shock of the Nazi programme was that it was the first time, outside of the Balkans, that European colonial/ethnic policies had been re-imported and applied to Europeans themselves.

Wurzelbert

jimeryan22 wrote: »

No one had thought up gassing people to death and burning them in big ovens pal.... Let alone attempted it.... Come on

the idea was to exterminate jews and that has been with us for many centuries as a look at some 2000 years of jewish persecution might teach you…the methods have of course changed over time but what difference does that make?

sopretty

Put it this way. If Enda Kenny decided to murder everyone from within the Pale, would you think him sane? Or insane?

jimeryan22

Wurzelbert wrote: »

the idea was to exterminate jews and that has been with us for many centuries as a look at some 2000 years of jewish persecution might teach you…the methods have of course changed over time but what difference does that make?

Very detached way of looking at things in my opinion.. I don't even have a reply to your statement now as they just keep rolling out, You sound like Hilary Clinton in the senate hearings after Benghazi... "What difference does it make now..!!!?"
Tell that to family's of the atrocities

sopretty

If ever there was a case of someone being coerced into making a statement, that German hostage is a typical example in my opinion!

Reekwind

sopretty wrote: »

Put it this way. If Enda Kenny decided to murder everyone from within the Pale, would you think him sane? Or insane?

And if Enda's decision was enthusiastically carried out by the state, was supported by a significant percentage of the population and tapped into a longstanding strain of genocidal thought... well, are we to assume that everyone involved is insane?

Seriously, this is very basic stuff. The idea that the Holocaust was a product of Hitler's insanity (and that he did not have rational policies) has been unsustainable since the 1960s. It's nonsense, albeit nonsense that says more about those who perpetuate it than anything else. Specifically, the inability to conduct a nuanced analysis without simply writing off your opponents motives.

jimeryan22 wrote:

Very detached way of looking at things in my opinion.. I don't even have a reply to your statement now as they just keep rolling out, You sound like Hilary Clinton in the senate hearings after Benghazi... "What difference does it make now..!!!?"
Tell that to family's of the atrocities

Because every death is unique, right? There can be no link between historical antisemitism or colonial atrocities and the Nazi campaigns of genocide?

That's a rhetorical question to a hysterical question

Red Nissan

Reekwind wrote: »

The idea that the Holocaust was a product of Hitler's insanity (and that he did not have rational policies)

In reality Hitler may not have known the real extent of the termination camps. We have stories where an order [from Hitler's office] withdrew military trains to fill them with prisoners and send to the camps.

On the other hand we have complaints from camp Commandants that they cannot terminate the ever increasing demands when they don't actually have the trains, the prisoners, gas, coal or wood.

It's a huge subject all of itself, with some authors clamming collusion with the West and The Catholic Church.

jimeryan22

Because every death is unique, right? There can be no link between historical antisemitism or colonial atrocities and the Nazi campaigns of genocide?

That's a rhetorical question to a hysterical question[/quote]


Not because every death is unique no... Because the atrocities that went on under that very regime weren't going on anywhere else... Except maybe Russia at the times under Stalin also... Colonials had slaves yes and commited savagery also, But they never had a case where they had killed so many people that is was becoming a serious problem trying to get rid of them so please stop comparing colonialism to the Nazis..