Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

Scofflaw

Jonny7 and jimeryan22, pack in the After Hours stuff. All you're contributing is these "smart" quips - please don't bother, we don't want that in this forum.

One polite warning, as ever.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Jonny7

Am completely grand with Jimeryan22, twas a bit of banter

Anyway, it appears pro-Ukrainian militants have just started to join the fold, like the separatists, but fighting to "help" the Ukrainian military. It's calmer in recent days but an extra group joining in isn't exactly going to improve the situation

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/15/ukraine-civil-war-fears-mount-volunteer-units-kiev-russia

jdod23

Jonny7 wrote: »

Am completely grand with Jimeryan22, twas a bit of banter

Anyway, it appears pro-Ukrainian militants have just started to join the fold, like the separatists, but fighting to "help" the Ukrainian military. It's calmer in recent days but an extra group joining in isn't exactly going to improve the situation

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/15/ukraine-civil-war-fears-mount-volunteer-units-kiev-russia

As part of Geneva agreement between EU, Ukraine, US and Russia all illegal groups should be disarmed. That applies to pro-Russian separatists just as much as pro-Ukrainian militia.
I can't understand how can Kiev justify use of militia and Right Sector against separatists. Only Ukrainian army is allowed to use force in Ukraine.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/17/ukraine-crisis-agreement-us-russia-eu

gandalf

I suppose if they (Kiev Government) haven't got control over the East then any groups can operate with impunity which creates a very dangerous vacuum. The longer this goes on for then the further it will deteriorate into chaos and the greater threat to innocent lives.

The UN are reporting of a "alarming deterioration" in human rights in eastern Ukraine. They are also saying that there are "serious problems" of harassment and persecution of ethnic Tatars in Crimea proving that Russia only cares about certain minority groups.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27438422

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Jonny7

Poroshenko, confectionery tycoon, currently standing on about 54% of the votes (Moscow has signaled it's ready for talks with him)

Tymoshenko on around 13%

And for all the hysteria about fascists - Svoboda candidate on 1.16% with his Right Sector counterpart on 0.86%

comongethappy

Its a shame the people of the east we not allowed exercise their vote as they should.

Still, a 60% turnout considering the rebels violence ain't bad.

DubVelo

I'm assuming 'businessman who's not Tymoshenko' might be more likely to be someone Putin is willing to have a chat with?
Hopefully it'll all start to simmer down a bit from here on.

Elmer Blooker

Jonny7 wrote: »

Poroshenko, confectionery tycoon, currently standing on about 54% of the votes (Moscow has signaled it's ready for talks with him)

Tymoshenko on around 13%

And for all the hysteria about fascists - Svoboda candidate on 1.16% with his Right Sector counterpart on 0.86%

They were just "given" cabinet posts. Isn't "democracy" great!
http://peoplesworld.org/ukrainian-ultra-rightists-given-major-cabinet-posts-in-government/

jimeryan22

Who is this guy that has conveniently been pushed forward at just the right time...? No doubt he's pro west..?
Where was he before all this started in Ukraine..? And how come he's so qualified as I've heard to run the country..? Anybody..?

jimeryan22

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Who is this guy that has conveniently been pushed forward at just the right time...? No doubt he's pro west..?
Where was he before all this started in Ukraine..? And how come he's so qualified as I've heard to run the country..? Anybody..?

No need. Had a quick look and reading this was enough..!

Poroshenko first won a seat in the Verkhovna Rada (the Parliament of Ukraine) in 1998. He was initially a member of the United Social Democratic Party of Ukraine (SDPU(o)), the party most loyal to president Leonid Kuchma at the time. Poroshenko left SDPU(o) in 2000 to create an independent left-of-center faction, naming it Solidarity.[8] In 2001 Poroshenko was instrumental in creating the Party of Regions, also loyal to Kuchma, but Solidarity never joined the Party of Regions.[9] However, in December 2001 he broke ranks with Kuchma supporters to become campaign chief of Viktor Yushchenko's Our Ukraine Bloc opposition faction. After parliamentary elections in March 2002 in which Our Ukraine won the biggest share of the popular vote and Poroshenko won a seat in parliament,[10] Poroshenko served as head of the parliamentary budget committee, where he was accused of "misplacing 47 million hryvnias" (USD$ 8.9 million).[11]

Poroshenko was considered a close confidant of Yushchenko, who is godfather to Poroshenko's daughters. Poroshenko was likely to have been the wealthiest businessman among Yushchenko supporters, and was often named as one of the main financial backers of Our Ukraine and the Orange Revolution.[12] After Yushchenko won the presidential elections in 2004, Poroshenko was appointed Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council.[3]

In September 2005, highly publicized mutual allegations of corruption erupted between Poroshenko and Tymoshenko involving the privatizations of state-owned firms. Poroshenko, for example, was accused of defending the interests of Viktor Pinchuk, who had acquired state firm Nikopol Ferroalloy for $80 million, independently valued at $1 billion.[13] In response to the allegations, Yushchenko dismissed his entire cabinet of ministers, including Poroshenko and Prime Minister Tymoshenko.[14] State prosecutors dismissed an abuse of power investigation against Poroshenko the following month,[15] immediately after Yushchenko dismissed Svyatoslav Piskun, General Prosecutor of Ukraine. Piskun claimed that he was sacked because he refused to institute criminal proceedings against Tymoshenko and refused to drop proceedings against Poroshenko.[16]

jimeryan22

Replacing one gangster with the gangsters buddy... Great job on your freeing your country from corruption Ukraine..!! Now it will all die down and the US and EU can go on with the original plan of raping your country of all your natural resources.. Well done

comongethappy

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Replacing one gangster with the gangsters buddy... Great job on your freeing your country from corruption Ukraine..!! Now it will all die down and the US and EU can go on with the original plan of raping your country of all your natural resources.. Well done

A stretch even for you Jimmy.

A free trade agreement does not a raping make.

jimeryan22

comongethappy wrote: »

A stretch even for you Jimmy.

A free trade agreement does not a raping make.

Ouch... Ok. Bit strong.. I concede..
Just wait till old hunter Biden starts fresh in his new post but..

Jonny7

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

They were just "given" cabinet posts. Isn't "democracy" great!
http://peoplesworld.org/ukrainian-ultra-rightists-given-major-cabinet-posts-in-government/

That article is 3 months old and refers to the interim government

Elmer Blooker

Jonny7 wrote: »

That article is 3 months old and refers to the interim government

What are you talking about, the article is 3 months old? The reality is that unelected extreme right ultra nationalists still hold key positions in the Kiev government.
I can only describe this article below as "Orwellian" - there doesn't seem to be any talk anymore from Obama about better health care for the poor or "Obamacare" - it's quite obvious that the so called "neo cons" are now running the show in the U$A. "I believe in American exceptionalism" Terrifying times!
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/28/politics/obama-west-point-foreign-policy/

Lockstep

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

What are you talking about, the article is 3 months old? The reality is that unelected extreme right ultra nationalists still hold key positions in the Kiev government.
I can only describe this article below as "Orwellian" - there doesn't seem to be any talk anymore from Obama about better health care for the poor or "Obamacare" - it's quite obvious that the so called "neo cons" are now running the show in the U$A. "I believe in American exceptionalism" Terrifying times!
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/28/politics/obama-west-point-foreign-policy/

Unelected?
All three Svoboda cabinet members (Sych, Shvaika and Mokhnyk) were elected to the Rada in the 2012 elections.

comongethappy

Lockstep wrote: »

Unelected?
All three Svoboda cabinet members (Sych, Shvaika and Mokhnyk) were elected to the Rada in the 2012 elections.

Elmer won't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

Elmer Blooker

comongethappy wrote: »

Elmer won't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

Facts
Ukraine General Election 2012: the largest party was The Party of Regions with 34% of the vote, this party is generally pro Russian - cabinet posts in US installed government - zero.
Even the Communist Party got more votes than Svoboda (13% against 10%)
cabinet posts - zero.
hysteria? pot....... kettle........ black!

Lockstep

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Facts
Ukraine General Election 2012: the largest party was The Party of Regions with 34% of the vote, this party is generally pro Russian - cabinet posts in US installed government - zero.
Even the Communist Party got more votes than Svoboda (13% against 10%)
cabinet posts - zero.
hysteria? pot....... kettle........ black!

And the British Labour party has no cabinet ministers but the Libdems do despite having far less seats. But as the Tories and Libdems combined have more seats than Labour, they decide the cabinet posts.
Same thing in the Rada.

The largest party only makes a government if it has a majority. The PoR have a plurality so I'm not sure what your point is here.

comongethappy

Lockstep wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is here.

The point is, Elmer hates America.

Looking at his/her post history you wonder where everyday hatred drifts into something darker.

Jonny7

Apparently Ukrainian experts discovered a virus on their election results software that would have given far-right candidate Dmytro Yarosh a fictional 37% of the vote as the election results were broadcast from the system live. They allegedly managed to defuse the virus just 40 mins before the actual results went live.

Here is a main Russian TV station broadcasting a graphic of election results shortly after - and yes that's the very same Dmytro Yarosh getting 37% of the vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3ltHXUkkG4

aloyisious

One thing peculiar to this war is that Russia is finding itself in the same position as foreign (not US) powers backing Chechen rebels, in that it's backing separatists trying to set up a separate state from within an existing state in the Russian "sphere of influence".

comongethappy

aloyisious wrote: »

One thing peculiar to this war is that Russia is finding itself in the same position as foreign (not US) powers backing Chechen rebels, in that it's backing separatists trying to set up a separate state from within an existing state in the Russian "sphere of influence".

The double standard clearly lost on Russia.

riffmongous

In a bizarre twist there are former Chechen rebels fighting on the side of the pro-russian separatists

Count Dooku

Luhansk today after air-strike of Ukrainian army

GRAPHIC WARNING!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldBUugf_D5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05m9gLftj5M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUIiRPO0W28

vadzen

Volley was made of cassette rockets S-8, apparently high-explosive shells. At least 5 missiles. 1-2 missiles hit the Lugansk regional administration building, the other exploded in a nearby park..

$5 Billion from USA to change government in Ukraine.
International Business Conference at Ukraine in Washington - National Press Club - December 13, 2013, Victoria Nuland - Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Eurasian Affairs: "We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals. ” Nuland said the United States will continue to “promote Ukraine to the future it deserves.
youtu.be/MqUztAX7ozw?t=2m54s
www. informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm
One of results is frallik.livejournal.com/781599.html

Ukraine has 15 Nuclear power plants. If war escalated Europe would not be save.

vadzen

Ukrainian army air-strike result:
18+
youtube.com/watch?v=8r5Ez29XX0U

jimeryan22

comongethappy wrote: »

The double standard clearly lost on Russia.

Still saying this nonscence...? Started by American state department.. Fact.. Keep ignoring facts... Victoria nuland tapes....... Etc etc bloody etc...
Ukraine now in civil war thanks to America..! NOT Russia..

jimeryan22

Count Dooku wrote: »

Luhansk today after air-strike of Ukrainian army

GRAPHIC WARNING!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldBUugf_D5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05m9gLftj5M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUIiRPO0W28

Absolute f##king discrace... Hope all the pro eu/us lot are happy... Poor bastards over there that's all I can say.. Those women really deserved to be blown to bits in their streets didn't they..?
Disgrace absolute discrace