Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

Jonny7

vadzen wrote: »

$5 Billion from USA to change government in Ukraine.
International Business Conference at Ukraine in Washington - National Press Club - December 13, 2013, Victoria Nuland - Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Eurasian Affairs: "We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals. ” Nuland said the United States will continue to “promote Ukraine to the future it deserves.
youtu. be/ MqUztAX7ozw?t=2m54s
www. informationclearinghouse. info/ article37599.htm
One of results is frallik. livejournal. com / 781599.html

The US has invested approx 5 billion in Ukraine over 20 years - there is nothing extraordinary about this

Jonny7

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Absolute f##king discrace... Hope all the pro eu/us lot are happy... Poor bastards over there that's all I can say.. Those women really deserved to be blown to bits in their streets didn't they..?
Disgrace absolute discrace

This has nothing to do with the EU/US

jimeryan22

Jonny7 wrote: »

The US has invested approx 5 billion in Ukraine over 20 years - there is nothing extraordinary about this

Is there not jonny..? And what interests or concern in Ukraine is there of Americas...? None..!

jimeryan22

Jonny7 wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the EU/US

Talking out that thing above your knees jonny... It has everything to do with them... Destabilising the place through ngo's etc. Even with your own admission of them putting money into the place.. "No foreign entanglements". It's in their constitution.. America has absolutly nothing to do with the Ukraine and should mind their business first, second stop fundind groups to destabilise the place... It has everything to do with them

comongethappy

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Still saying this nonscence...? Started by American state department.. Fact.. Keep ignoring facts... Victoria nuland tapes....... Etc etc bloody etc...
Ukraine now in civil war thanks to America..! NOT Russia..

Russia is just a helpless bystander is it Jimmy?

Just as it was in Chechnya.

Its a very blinkered (anti-american) view you chose to have.

jimeryan22

comongethappy wrote: »

Russia is just a helpless bystander is it Jimmy?

Just as it was in Chechnya.

Its a very blinkered (anti-american) view you chose to have.

Speak for yourself.. Blinkered..? Your taking the p surely..? I am not anti american for the hundredth time.. But keep spitting out the rheteric... Boring now at this point... And what business did America have to bomb feck out of Chechnya too..? None.. Again

What planes and bombs have Russia used then in Ukraine since this began..? None also
So again. Bystander..? Looks like it to me.. Keep reading,believing,and spitting out western properganda while Ukrainians suffer though. Please do

Jonny7

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Talking out that thing above your knees jonny... It has everything to do with them... Destabilising the place through ngo's etc. Even with your own admission of them putting money into the place.. "No foreign entanglements". It's in their constitution.. America has absolutly nothing to do with the Ukraine and should mind their business first, second stop fundind groups to destabilise the place... It has everything to do with them

Sorry, which NGO's destabilised Ukraine and how?

Jonny7

jimeryan22 wrote: »

And what business did America have to bomb feck out of Chechnya too..? None.. Again

The US didn't bomb Chechnya

gandalf

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Speak for yourself.. Blinkered..? Your taking the p surely..? I am not anti american for the hundredth time.. But keep spitting out the rheteric... Boring now at this point... And what business did America have to bomb feck out of Chechnya too..? None.. Again

What planes and bombs have Russia used then in Ukraine since this began..? None also
So again. Bystander..? Looks like it to me.. Keep reading,believing,and spitting out western properganda while Ukrainians suffer though. Please do

Russia are pouring arms and men over the border into Ukraine. They are actively agitating this situation.

Do you at least acknowledge that?

Also ask yourself this question. If this situation was happening inside Russia would Putin be as restrained as the Ukrainians have been so far. I sincerely doubt it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27633117

jimeryan22

Jonny7 wrote: »

Sorry, which NGO's destabilised Ukraine and how?

The ones funded by the us jonny.. Will I post the link again..???

jimeryan22

gandalf wrote: »

Russia are pouring arms and men over the border into Ukraine. They are actively agitating this situation.

Do you at least acknowledge that?

Also ask yourself this question. If this situation was happening inside Russia would Putin be as restrained as the Ukrainians have been so far. I sincerely doubt it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27633117

Big difference between small arms going in compared to using attack helicopters and jets to attack civilian populations..

And your question makes no sense.. It's not happening in Russia.. It's going on in Ukraine.. So ...????

gandalf

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Big difference between small arms going in compared to using attack helicopters and jets to attack civilian populations..

And your question makes no sense.. It's not happening in Russia.. It's going on in Ukraine.. So ...????

Nice sidestep Jimeryan22.This is an armed insurrection mainly being perpetrated by outside forces. The government of the Ukraine have an obligation to maintain their legitimate borders and integrity by confronting these armed elements and unfortunately when these mercenaries hide within the civilian population then innocents will be killed.

So you classify missile systems, anti-aircraft guns and armoured vehicles as small arms :rolleyes:

Straight question to you jimeryan22, do you agree with the Russians leaving the border open, allowing men and weapons to pour into another country like they currently are with Eastern Ukraine?

jimeryan22

gandalf wrote: »

Nice sidestep Jimeryan22.This is an armed insurrection mainly being perpetrated by outside forces. The government of the Ukraine have an obligation to maintain their legitimate borders and integrity by confronting these armed elements and unfortunately when these mercenaries hide within the civilian population then innocents will be killed.

So you classify missile systems, anti-aircraft guns and armoured vehicles as small arms :rolleyes:

Straight question to you jimeryan22, do you agree with the Russians leaving the border open, allowing men and weapons to pour into another country like they currently are with Eastern Ukraine?

Sidestep my arse... Where's the proof of weapons from Russia..? And I believe the anti aircraft missle launchers you'll find is American..

As for your nonscence about this non elected unofficial Ukrainian government chosen also by US... Blowing people up on the street with jets... Where's your head at mate..? That's not legitimate what so ever.. You think it is..? Your deluded..

gandalf

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Sidestep my arse... Where's the proof of weapons from Russia..? And I believe the anti aircraft missle launchers you'll find is American..

As for your nonscence about this non elected unofficial Ukrainian government chosen also by US... Blowing people up on the street with jets... Where's your head at mate..? That's not legitimate what so ever.. You think it is..? Your deluded..

As usual no condemnation of Russia and a lot of Anti US bile. You keep on message there jim

Again if this was happening in Russia then massacres would have occurred a long time ago.

Oh and I provided a link detailing the "volunteers" coming over the border. Any source for the US missile launchers claim there. So the US are arming the agitators in the Ukraine as well as funding the Ukrainian Government now eh. Is that the same US forces that bombed Chechnya :rolleyes:

jimeryan22

gandalf wrote: »

As usual no condemnation of Russia and a lot of Anti US bile. You keep on message there jim

Again if this was happening in Russia then massacres would have occurred a long time ago.

Oh and I provided a link detailing the "volunteers" coming over the border. Any source for the US missile launchers claim there. So the US are arming the agitators in the Ukraine as well as funding the Ukrainian Government now eh. Is that the same US forces that bombed Chechnya :rolleyes:

Talking out your bum again you mean... Don't keep saying if if if if in Russia. Cause it's Ukraine mate not Russia. So your little analogy is of no use what so ever...
And again. Just like the rest. You call me anti american... Talking out your arse.. I'm neither pro Russian or anti American. Served with yanks so am in no way anti American... You wanna try talking to a few of them and see if your sentiment is their's.. I Don't think so...
In fact you show by repeatedly saying this that your not even using your own brain. Your just spitting out propaganda from western media... Admittedly I read wrongly with Chechnya while actually thinking Kosovo.. But that's an honest mistake. Unlike the claptrap you people are talking.

gandalf

Jim I am not talking claptrap. I have provided links to what I posted. Fair enough you believe that the BBC is propaganda but for the majority of others it is a respected news outlet. You say that you are neither pro Russian or pro US yet you continue to castigate the US and ignore the more active role that Russia are carrying out and then ignore any attempt to discuss their more active roll in the current theatre.

Fair enough you meant Kosovo and not Chechnya.

As for engaging my brain oh I do that. I see a far bigger threat to Europe from the East and not the West. Russia and its activities are a direct threat to us and our children by her action and inaction in East Ukraine.

jimeryan22

gandalf wrote: »

Jim I am not talking claptrap. I have provided links to what I posted. Fair enough you believe that the BBC is propaganda but for the majority of others it is a respected news outlet. You say that you are neither pro Russian or pro US yet you continue to castigate the US and ignore the more active role that Russia are carrying out and then ignore any attempt to discuss their more active roll in the current theatre.

Fair enough you meant Kosovo and not Chechnya.

As for engaging my brain oh I do that. I see a far bigger threat to Europe from the East and not the West. Russia and its activities are a direct threat to us and our children by her action and inaction in East Ukraine.

I swear.. We must all be living on different planets... Russia have made no threat to the west, And our children.. What bollox...
The more active roll..? What roll..?

And answer me this. Cause everyone go's quiet, and ignores the question.. What business is it of the United States..? None..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All i see is the west, poking the bear into a corner to where the bear will have no choice but fight..
Nuland/chevron/hunter Biden... Etc etc
Russia gonna try take over the world I suppose..?

jimeryan22

jimeryan22 wrote: »

I swear.. We must all be living on different planets... Russia have made no threat to the west, And our children.. What bollox...
The more active roll..? What roll..?

And answer me this. Cause everyone go's quiet, and ignores the question.. What business is it of the United States..? None..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All i see is the west, poking the bear into a corner to where the bear will have no choice but fight..
Nuland/chevron/hunter Biden... Etc etc
Russia gonna try take over the world I suppose..?

Oh and by the way.. The anti American sentiments pretty big in its own country..
People are sick fighting and dying for the rich pal.. And with the good old internet are not bull****ted so easily, so know half the time they're fighting and dying for lies.. Join up yourself or send your kids if your so mad for it

Jonny7

jimeryan22 wrote: »

The ones funded by the us jonny.. Will I post the link again..???

I haven't seen the link - if you could relink it

The Ukrainians rightly got rid of a very corrupt leadership, not only Yanukovych, but his wider circle, our politicians had nothing on that guy - but apparently the Ukrainians were fine with Yanukovych, and all the whole public revolt was some sort of nefarious US plan, using NGO's and such .. ?

I need that part explained

gandalf

jimeryan22 wrote: »

I swear.. We must all be living on different planets... Russia have made no threat to the west, And our children.. What bollox...
The more active roll..? What roll..?

Pouring men and weapons into a situation that doesn't need it would be a pretty big clue there Jim.

And answer me this. Cause everyone go's quiet, and ignores the question.. What business is it of the United States..? None..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to the Global village. The US have vested interests in Europe and are part of a strategic alliance in NATO. They have an obligation to the nations in that alliance and some of the ones bordering Russia have requested the help of other NATO members.

All i see is the west, poking the bear into a corner to where the bear will have no choice but fight..
Nuland/chevron/hunter Biden... Etc etc
Russia gonna try take over the world I suppose..?

What I am seeing is a mirror of a situation we had in Europe 76 years ago where a country wanted to rebuild an Empire it had lost and the other powers in place ignored them and millions of people paid the ultimate price. I see a very real danger from Russia under Putin.

jimeryan22

Jonny7 wrote: »

I haven't seen the link - if you could relink it

The Ukrainians rightly got rid of a very corrupt leadership, not only Yanukovych, but his wider circle, our politicians had nothing on that guy - but apparently the Ukrainians were fine with Yanukovych, and all the whole public revolt was some sort of nefarious US plan, using NGO's and such .. ?

I need that part explained

Yeah they did yeah... That's why the new guy. Chocolate king worked as one of yanukovychs buddy's, look it up.. And is also just as corrupt.. Again look it up... If you can't understand the nuland/ngo's/link. Us involvement I can't help you jonny.. I'll find ngo's for you now then I'm done.. Same old **** on this thread and it's getting real boring

gandalf

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Oh and by the way.. The anti American sentiments pretty big in its own country..
People are sick fighting and dying for the rich pal.. And with the good old internet are not bull****ted so easily, so know half the time they're fighting and dying for lies.. Join up yourself or send your kids if your so mad for it

Again I am not pro-US, sure I even marched against the second gulf war in Dublin back in the day.

However I do see a greater threat out there Jim but you cannot see beyond your obvious distaste for America and actually criticise Mr Putins actions in Eastern Ukraine.

Do you believe that Vladimir Putin is helping the situation in Ukraine with his actions? Yes or No, its a simple question I would like you to answer it please.

jimeryan22

NGO link...

http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/eurasia/ukraine

jimeryan22

gandalf wrote: »

Pouring men and weapons into a situation that doesn't need it would be a pretty big clue there Jim.



Welcome to the Global village. The US have vested interests in Europe and are part of a strategic alliance in NATO. They have an obligation to the nations in that alliance and some of the ones bordering Russia have requested the help of other NATO members.



What I am seeing is a mirror of a situation we had in Europe 76 years ago where a country wanted to rebuild an Empire it had lost and the other powers in place ignored them and millions of people paid the ultimate price. I see a very real danger from Russia under Putin.

There... You just said it... Vested interest.. For who..? America..? The average joe..? No. For the already rich running the show already...
As I said. It's actually against Americas constitution or law, for foreign entanglements... But sure what are laws to the gangsters running the show these days.... Ignore them or change them, which is what they do

jimeryan22

gandalf wrote: »

Pouring men and weapons into a situation that doesn't need it would be a pretty big clue there Jim.



Welcome to the Global village. The US have vested interests in Europe and are part of a strategic alliance in NATO. They have an obligation to the nations in that alliance and some of the ones bordering Russia have requested the help of other NATO members.



What I am seeing is a mirror of a situation we had in Europe 76 years ago where a country wanted to rebuild an Empire it had lost and the other powers in place ignored them and millions of people paid the ultimate price. I see a very real danger from Russia under Putin.

To compare what game Putin is playing to Germany building herself back up after ww1 too makes no sense..
Russia did not start this as you like to make out.. To say they have is just bad form or ignoring facts

gandalf

jimeryan22 wrote: »

There... You just said it... Vested interest.. For who..? America..? The average joe..? No. For the already rich running the show already...
As I said. It's actually against Americas constitution or law, for foreign entanglements... But sure what are laws to the gangsters running the show these days.... Ignore them or change them, which is what they do

LOL at a minimum the US have an obligation via NATO help defend its members. Several of those have asked for addition help because of the growing destablisation in the East that is being fueled by Russias actions. Do you actually read what people post or do you have these snippets available to unleash on this thread at a whim?

Add to that the fact that US companies have a lot of investment in Europe then of course the US is going to ensure that those interests are looked after.

Then of course the US remember the cost to their own people the last time Nationalism was left go down this route in Europe.

gandalf

jimeryan22 wrote: »

To compare what game Putin is playing to Germany building herself back up after ww1 too makes no sense..
Russia did not start this as you like to make out.. To say they have is just bad form or ignoring facts

What game is Putin playing then, in your opinion?

gandalf wrote: »

Do you believe that Vladimir Putin is helping the situation in Ukraine with his actions? Yes or No, its a simple question I would like you to answer it please.

Are you going to answer this or are you going to sidestep again?

jimeryan22

gandalf wrote: »

LOL at a minimum the US have an obligation via NATO help defend its members. Several of those have asked for addition help because of the growing destablisation in the East that is being fueled by Russias actions. Do you actually read what people post or do you have these snippets available to unleash on this thread at a whim?

Add to that the fact that US companies have a lot of investment in Europe then of course the US is going to ensure that those interests are looked after.

Then of course the US remember the cost to their own people the last time Nationalism was left go down this route in Europe.

And have you ever read anything else but the propaganda text book..?
I seem to remember in history The us were quite unbothered by the nazis wrecking Europe. Seeing as they were building their lorrys, and such... They were getting richer off it mate.. Oh until the German allied japan attacked pearl harbour.. Is that what your talking about..? Americas not a nationalistic country at all is it..? Lol......!!!!

jimeryan22

gandalf wrote: »

What game is Putin playing then, in your opinion?



Are you going to answer this or are you going to sidestep again?

Ill answer this for you no problem... In my own humble opinion Putin is playing the long game, he's not stupid enough like everyone seems to think to just go invading Ukraine, well I can't see it.. I more see him sitting back, let the IMF **** Ukraine like everywhere else and wait to dig them out as it were.. My opinion of course.. But I don't see Putin making moves like what's been made out everywhere.. You tell me seeing as you are so sure..?

gandalf

jimeryan22 wrote: »

And have you ever read anything else but the propaganda text book..?
I seem to remember in history The us were quite unbothered by the nazis wrecking Europe. Seeing as they were building their lorrys, and such... They were getting richer off it mate.. Oh until the German allied japan attacked pearl harbour.. Is that what your talking about..? Americas not a nationalistic country at all is it..? Lol......!!!!

And Russia carved up Poland in agreement with the Germans? Your point is?

You have heard of Katyn. It appears that you are suffering from selective history amnesia.

You also should note that I said the US are not going to make a mistake again that costs them more lives in the long run. Its better for them to face down the Nationalistic Bully now rather than a more emboldened one later