Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

Darkrepeater

Lol
Cool so folks.. Thanks
I see your point there "happy"....

aloyisious

gandalf wrote: »

Looks like complete and utter CT fantasy fare to be honest. Once it said a high ranking source in London it smelt a bit rank.

Euro-sceptic kite-flying, unattributable source etc...

gandalf

aloyisious wrote: »

Euro-sceptic kite-flying, unattributable source etc...

LOL I didn't even read on where it said he heard from some "Russians" whilst on a trip.

Looks like the EU are widening the sanctions to target full industry sectors now as well for the first time. Things are looking bleak for the Russian economy.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28539254

whitebriar

gandalf wrote: »

Looks like complete and utter CT fantasy fare to be honest. Once it said a high ranking source in London it smelt a bit rank.

It is interesting though that U.S intelligence services have recently been caught with their pants down eavesdropping on amongst other things Merkels mobile.
One has to ask why.

comongethappy

whitebriar wrote: »

It is interesting though that U.S intelligence services have recently been caught with their pants down eavesdropping on amongst other things Merkels mobile.
One has to ask why.

Cos Germany is about to leave the EU and gave no access to the common market...

There can be no other answer.... Obviously.

Certainly nothing to do with a paranoid NSA spying on everyone as a matter of course.

Darkrepeater

whitebriar wrote: »

It is interesting though that U.S intelligence services have recently been caught with their pants down eavesdropping on amongst other things Merkels mobile.
One has to ask why.

Funnily enough, that's the reason given as a possibility into why they had been spying on Angela

Darkrepeater

Seen this earlier, scary ****..
Don't know about the source though..??

Www.infowars.com/war-is-coming/

Sand

Darkrepeater wrote: »

Seen this earlier, scary ****..
Don't know about the source though..??

Www.infowars.com/war-is-coming/

I found the movie Sinister to be genuinely creepy - especially the first sequence.

Anything from infowars is basically badly written fiction and/or a conspiracy theory. The article you have linked to is pretty much juvenile in its non-ironic usage of "quotation" and its petty name-calling. The whole article can be summed up in one sentence from it: "The West has ganged up on Russia, because the West is totally corrupt."

Woah, that's deep.

aloyisious

In today's Irish Indo... Germany pushing for secret deal between Russia and Ukraine, with recognition of independent Crimea and Gazprom deal, plus Russia giving Ukraine a Billion-dollar financial package in lieu of the lost rent from the Russian Black Sea fleet for use of Sevastopol and other Crimean ports.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/germany-brokers-secret-deal-with-russia-to-end-ukraine-crisis-30474000.html

I'm left wondering if Vlad's cup overfloeth: http://www.independent.ie/world-news/russia-told-to-pay-yukos-investors-30474373.html

comongethappy

aloyisious wrote: »

In today's Irish Indo... Germany pushing for secret deal between Russia and Ukraine, with recognition of independent Crimea and Gazprom deal, plus Russia giving Ukraine a Billion-dollar financial package in lieu of the lost rent from the Russian Black Sea fleet for use of Sevastopol and other Crimean ports.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/germany-brokers-secret-deal-with-russia-to-end-ukraine-crisis-30474000.html

I'm left wondering if Vlad's cup overfloeth: http://www.independent.ie/world-news/russia-told-to-pay-yukos-investors-30474373.html

Back months ago that scenario described was the new status quo deemed the most likely to occur

I think offering a "no NATO" clause is useful because I doubt NATO would want Ukraine as a member anyway.

And the Kremlin knows the EU would be decades away from considering Ukraine ripe for membership application, so a trade deal is a harmless enough thing.

Normalising the theft of Crimea would be huge for Putin as well.

aloyisious

RTE Radio news has a UN report on refugees fleeing the Donetsk city and region in both directions (towards Russian and Ukrainian territory) with a reporter (Andrew Kramer) saying the militia in Donetsk are arresting locals for things like curfew-breaking and forcing them to dig trenches (fortifications).

Devostator

curfew?
I think the authorities are not curfew- there is war!

aloyisious

I'm hoping that this latest raising of inter-govt relationship temperature, the Russian convoy to Ukraine will pass off without trouble. there is lot of speculation as to what is on the trucks. The Russians, according to the media, say the convoy has the full agreement and co-operation of the ICRC, The Kiev Govt and the OSCE. The ICRC are, however reported as saying that that do not know what is on the Russian trucks and have no agreement with the Russian Govt on the truck convoy move. The Kiev Govt is reported as saying that they have NOT agreed to the convoy and will stop it at the border. It's reported as saying the contents of the convoy will have to be transferred to ICRC trucks at the border after the contents are checked to ensure it's only humanitarian goods, to stop the smuggling-in of weapons and ammo to the separatists.

Either way, if the convoy roll's up to the Russian/Ukraine border, Mr Putin get's the praise. If the goods are OK, he win's. If the trucks are NOT opened for inspection and do a U-turn there, on the no-evidence basis, Mr Putin wins again "bad Ukrainian Govt refused humanitarian assistance to starving thousands". He might even use it to stir up more demands for action within Russia, giving him a popular vote to take any action he "See's As Necessary" to assist "ethnic" Russians on the other side of the border. If, however there is shooting match at the border if a push-through of the convoy over the border is attempted, then he must be seen as the person personally liable for anything that happens as a consequence. He has the total ability to stop the convoy and control it's destiny on his side of the border.

comongethappy

Once the goods are verified by the red cross & taken by the it will pass without notice.

No one thinks Putin will smuggle weapons in such plain sight.

Lemming

comongethappy wrote: »

No one thinks Putin will smuggle weapons in such plain sight.

"There are no Russian troops deployed in the Crimea".

If you don't mind, I'll reserve a healthy dose of cynicism for your above comment comongethappy.

comongethappy

Lemming wrote: »

"There are no Russian troops deployed in the Crimea".

If you don't mind, I'll reserve a healthy dose of cynicism for your above comment comongethappy.

Of course.... That could be so

The cynic in me thinks this is nothing more than a stunt.

They are praying that the paranoia of the Kiev government will turnaround the convoy at the border, despite being full of needed products.
That would be a big PR win for the Kremlin as well as a blow to inept folk in Kiev.

If the border authorities are smart..... (Big 'if') they will ask a team of ICRC people to meet the convoy at the border, smile for the cameras & allow the goods be on their way after inspection.

WakeUp

Ukraine crisis: the neo-Nazi brigade fighting pro-Russian separatists:

Kiev throws paramilitaries – some openly neo-Nazi - into the front of the battle with rebels

"The fighters of the Azov battalion lined up in single file to say farewell to their fallen comrade. His pallid corpse lay under the sun in an open casket trimmed with blue velvet.

Some of the men placed carnations by the body, others roses. Many struck their chests with a closed fist before touching their dead friend’s arm. One fighter had an SS tattoo on his neck.

As Ukraine’s armed forces tighten the noose around pro-Russian separatists in the east of the country, the western-backed government in Kiev is throwing militia groups – some openly neo-Nazi - into the front of the battle.

The Azov battalion has the most chilling reputation of all. Last week, it came to the fore as it mounted a bold attack on the rebel redoubt of Donetsk, striking deep into the suburbs of a city under siege.

But Kiev’s use of volunteer paramilitaries to stamp out the Russian-backed Donetsk and Luhansk “people’s republics”, proclaimed in eastern Ukraine in March, should send a shiver down Europe’s spine. Recently formed battalions such as Donbas, Dnipro and Azov, with several thousand men under their command, are officially under the control of the interior ministry but their financing is murky, their training inadequate and their ideology often alarming.

The Azov men use the neo-Nazi Wolfsangel (Wolf’s Hook) symbol on their banner and members of the battalion are openly white supremacists, or anti-Semites."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html

disgusting filthy Kiev nazis. cut Ukraine loose before something starts that drags us all into it. somebody is trying to bait the Russians into a fight sooner or later Russian patience will wear out rightly or wrongly. two types of people who phuck with the Russians on or near their border - those who are foolish and those who are suicidal. cut these filthy nazis loose before it's too late.

Lemming

comongethappy wrote: »

The cynic in me thinks this is nothing more than a stunt.

At best it's a PR stunt; at worse a clumsily brazen attempt at engineering a false-flag with which Putin can then get the Duma to sign off on "Intervention" by all those troops that have been quietly massing back along the border.

As a PR stunt, it's a play to the Russian population.

MRnotlob606

WW3 IS COMING

WakeUp

Lemming wrote: »

At best it's a PR stunt; at worse a clumsily brazen attempt at engineering a false-flag with which Putin can then get the Duma to sign off on "Intervention" by all those troops that have been quietly massing back along the border.

As a PR stunt, it's a play to the Russian population.

Filthy disgusting Kiev nazi brigades openly killing Russians. on Russia's border. yep intervention is going to happen soon enough how long more do you think Moscow is going to have that. not much longer .hope you're all ready for war with Russia on account of these nazis. it's coming.

stevedublin

WakeUp wrote: »

.hope you're all ready for war with Russia on account of these nazis. it's coming.

source?

WakeUp

stevedublin wrote: »

source?

source for what?..

stevedublin

WakeUp wrote: »

source for what?..

for what you stated.

WakeUp

stevedublin wrote: »

for what you stated.

I don't have a link if that's what you're asking for. the "west" is already at war with Russia - economic war. NATO and the EU, remembering that Ukraine has nothing to do with either, both are openly and brazenly threatening and dictating to the Russians on behalf of the nazis knutbags in Kiev. Western backed nazi brigades openly killing Russians on their border. there is only so much the Russians will take before they act. as things are everything is pointing towards war. once it starts it's going to spiral fast, very fast. phuck them dirty filthy nazis in Kiev have people lost their minds. cut them loose before it's too late. somebody is looking for a war with Russia and the way things are going, it's coming.

comongethappy

WakeUp wrote: »

both are openly and brazenly threatening and dictating to the Russians on behalf of the nazis knutbags in Kiev. Western backed nazi brigades openly killing Russians on their border. there is only so much the Russians will take before they act. as things are everything is pointing towards war. once it starts it's going to spiral fast, very fast. phuck them dirty filthy nazis in Kiev have people lost their minds.

You sure do like to say "Nazi" a lot!

It reads like something a 14 year old would throw up on Facebook.... Lots on heat, but little light.

Perhaps you will let us know why you hold the far-right regime in Moscow above the far-right regime in Kiev?

WakeUp

comongethappy wrote: »

You sure do like to say "Nazi" a lot!

It reads like something a 14 year old would throw up on Facebook.... Lots on heat, but little light.

Perhaps you will let us know why you hold the far-right regime in Moscow above the far-right regime in Kiev?

Yeah leave it out with the insults if you're going to accuse me of being 14 then don't resort to a childish retort yourself. I don't hold one above the other where have I said that? show me. why is the west backing nazis ? if you want to place me in a camp which you've already got wrong - place me in the I don't want to see a big war on behalf of a bunch of filthy Kiev nazis camp. why is the west on the side of nazis? why...

Elmer Blooker

comongethappy wrote: »

If the border authorities are smart..... (Big 'if') they will ask a team of ICRC people to meet the convoy at the border, smile for the cameras & allow the goods be on their way after inspection.

The border authorities have no say in the matter, they will do as they're told by their western masters.
This is clearly an attempt by EU/NATO/US to escalate the conflict by using civilians as a bargaining chip which of course would be against the Geneva Convention but as we know by their support for Israel's terror attacks on civilians in Gaza these militarists who want war have about as much respect for the Geneva Convention as they would for a piece of toilet paper!

WakeUp

Ignoring Ukraine’s Neo-Nazi Storm Troopers:

Exclusive: You might think a story about modern-day Nazi storm troopers attacking a European city without mercy would merit front-page coverage in the U.S. press, but not when the Nazi paramilitaries are fighting for the U.S.-backed Ukrainian government and are killing ethnic Russians, writes Robert Parry.

The U.S.-backed Ukrainian government is knowingly sending neo-Nazi paramilitaries into eastern Ukrainian neighborhoods to attack ethnic Russians who are regarded by some of these storm troopers as “Untermenschen” or subhuman, according to Western press reports.

Recently, one eastern Ukrainian town, Marinka, fell to Ukraine’s Azov battalion as it waved the Wolfsangel flag, a symbol used by Adolf Hitler’s SS divisions in World War II. The Azov paramilitaries also attacked Donetsk, one of the remaining strongholds of ethnic Russians opposed to the Kiev regime that overthrew elected President Viktor Yanukovych last February.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/13/ignoring-ukraines-neo-nazi-storm-troopers/

shush. musnt mention the western backed filthy nazis in Ukraine because apparently it's irrelevant and apparently it doesn't matter - because Russia is bad. and people don't want to know about them it might upset some to know they are supporting nazis. so let's not mention it. let's pretend there are no Kiev nazi brigades. because these are good nazis. caring and wholesome . great bunch of lads really.

comongethappy

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The border authorities have no say in the matter, they will do as they're told by their western masters.

Is that fact or an opinion?

I assume if the contents of the convoy arrive in Donetsk in 2 days time you will say thats only because the wicked west allowed it?

This is clearly an attempt by EU/NATO/US to escalate the conflict by using civilians as a bargaining chip

What "escalation"?

Is the Kremlins stunt anything other than a misuse of civilian misery for PR gain?

Elmer Blooker

comongethappy wrote: »

Is that fact or an opinion?

I assume if the contents of the convoy arrive in Donetsk in 2 days time you will say thats only because the wicked west allowed it?



What "escalation"?

Is the Kremlins stunt anything other than a misuse of civilian misery for PR gain?

the medicine and baby food will not be arriving in Donetsk - so says this statement, no doubt supplied by the US embassy in Kiev.

"No humanitarian convoy of [Russian President Vladimir] Putin's will be allowed to cross the territory of the Kharkiv region," Ukraine's Interior Minister Arsen Avakov wrote on Facebook.

"Provocation by the cynical aggressor will not be permitted on our territory."

I like the way you omitted the bit about the Geneva Convention in my post
Using civilians as hostages which is what NATO is doing is against International Law. Remember International Law?
I wonder how it would be received if Russia proposed a motion at the UN that all humanitarian aid be blocked to the Yazidis in Northern Iraq?