Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

AbusesToilets

I am continually impressed by the powers of denial displayed in this thread.

comongethappy

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I am continually impressed by the powers of denial displayed in this thread.

"Russia is not involved militarily in Ukraine".... say our Putinista posters


Meanwhile....
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0GQ0W120140826?irpc=932

The Kremlin apologists are really drifting into another reality.

Autonomous Cowherd

Of course Russia is involved militarily in Ukraine.
The real question is, who else is.

comongethappy

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

Of course Russia is involved militarily in Ukraine.
The real question is, who else is.

There ia a small group of Australian, US, Dutch & I think some Canadians.

They are dealing with the MH17 stuff.....
(Obviously a western cover up!)

None taking long walks across the border & getting lost though.

Elmer Blooker

comongethappy wrote: »

"Russia is not involved militarily in Ukraine".... say our Putinista posters

Meanwhile....
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0GQ0W120140826?irpc=932

The Kremlin apologists are really drifting into another reality.

How anybody can still believe a word from Ukraine military spokesman Andriy Lysenko is absolutely mind-boggling! He has been consistently exposed as a compulsive liar.

aloyisious

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Ten troops hand themselves in without a shot being fired after claiming they accidentally crossed the border - they sound like Russian "special forces" to me :rolleyes:
We have been "told" (by Kiev and NATO) that up to 60,000 Russian troops were massed on the border ready to invade for six months now - its now down to ten!

Must have been a "map-reading" error, happened all the time here I was surprised to see that the Katyn Wood massacre of Polish Army members is still declared (Russian Advisor to V) to be done by the Nazis, and not NKVD, as seem's to be accepted as the accepted factual truth.

Edit. deleted Russian finance minister, inserted advisor to V.

realweirdo

Is it only a matter of time before Russia organises a full scale invasion of Eastern Ukraine? It seems to be that way. They are probing and probing along the border, and probably looking for the slightest pretext to invade. You'd have to feel sorry for Ukraine, having an agressive bully on their doorstep, able to do as they please and yet if the Ukrainians fight back at all they are condemned. Russia are great at protecting and defending their own soverignty but seem to have little time for anyone else's soverignty.

Elmer Blooker

aloyisious wrote: »

I was surprised to see that the Katyn Wood massacre of Polish Army members is still declared (Russian Finance Minister's video) to be done by the Nazis, and not NKVD, as seem's to be accepted as the accepted factual truth.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to reply to this but Gorbachev admitted the Soviet Union was responsible as long ago as 1990.

aloyisious

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I don't even know why I'm bothering to reply to this but Gorbachev admitted the Soviet Union was responsible as long ago as 1990.

This from Autonomous Cowherd at 11.04.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cikvqdMRTTA.

The gent goes on about the Nazis (of different nationalities) several times and at 13.05 into the video mentions Babi Yar and Khatyn. Sorry, the gent is not a Russian Minister, is an advisor to V Putin. I might be OK in thinking he got V's OK for the interview. He never stop's speaking or stop mid-sentence to change a word, so he may be reading from some sort of visible script.

comongethappy

Interesting from Reuters.

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN0GQ19Y20140826?irpc=932

An area at the very south east of Ukraine, far away from rebel/Russian forces areas, a town comes under attack from an group of armoured vehicles.

Widening the front?.... Stretch the already thin Ukrainian army further

realweirdo

Putin seems to be adopting a policy of destabilising his neighbours. It's frankly a worrying and also immature development on his part. You'd have to question his mindset at this stage.

comongethappy

realweirdo wrote: »

It's frankly a worrying and also immature development on his part. You'd have to question his mindset at this stage.

Well, his world is a bit of a royal-court like echo chamber.

A day in the life:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/a-day-in-the-life-of-vladimir-putin-the-dictator-in-his-labyrinth-9629796.html

You can't imagine he hears the word "no" very often.

vadzen

Mark Gregory Paslawsky, the sole American fighting on the Ukrainian side of the war in the east of the country, died from injuries sustained in battle in the town of Ilovaysk on Tuesday.
news.vice.com/article/the-only-american-fighting-for-ukraine-dies-in-battle
vk.com/strelkov_info?z=photo-57424472_337585389%2Fwall-57424472_14077
vk.com/strelkov_info?z=photo-57424472_337585390%2Fwall-57424472_14077

Ukrainian terrorist in NATO uniform are fighting against Donbass and Lugansk republics people: youtube.com/watch?v=9kuNH_wMtkU
Ukrainian terrorist by supporting USA and EU hit Donetck and other Donbass and Lugansk republics by tocka-Y rockets. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTR-21_Tochka

carpejugulum

Canada at NATO ‏@CanadaNATO
Geography can be tough. Here’s a guide for Russian soldiers who keep getting lost & ‘accidentally’ entering #Ukraine

gandalf

It is absolutely blatant that Russia is now directly involved in this illegal war. Time for the world to put Russia under punitive sanctions and really hurt Putin and his junta in the Kremlin.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

gandalf

Yep lets hope we don't have another "peace in our time" fudge that we will all regret down the line.

A Dub in Glasgo

Russia definitely invading Ukraine and yet the UK & Europe talk about soft sanctions

sin_city

Jesus, there's two sides to every story....at least open your eyes a little to the other side.

Russia should have accepted the vote of the Eastern Ukrainian people who wanted to join Russia a few months ago and all of this would have been avoided.

Of course it would have been avoided too if the West didn't overthrow the democratically elected government beforehand

comongethappy

sin_city wrote: »

Russia should have accepted the vote of the Eastern Ukrainian people who wanted to join Russia a few months ago and all of this would have been avoided.

You mean the vote where after 50 mins of counting 1.5 million votes after the polls closed (quite a feat considering the ballots hadn't been delivered to count centres) ....the band of thugs running it decided it passed by 90%+?
...... I think that's what you mean?

That was an embarrassment for all concerned & not even the Kremlin could sink to approve it.

Either way, the lads from Russia appointed themselves leaders & got on with it anyway, so its not like they gave a toss.

Lemming

sin_city wrote: »

Jesus, there's two sides to every story....at least open your eyes a little to the other side.

And a picture (or several ... ) says a thousand words. There isn't much of an "other side" to this story.

comongethappy

Lemming wrote: »

And a picture (or several ... ) says a thousand words. There isn't much of an "other side" to this story.

There is the "whatever side the west is on, I'm against" side.

A lot of people are happy to sit there.

Elmer Blooker

Watching BBC News now, apparently 1,000 Russian troops have crossed the border into Ukraine according to the Kiev "government"
Why only 1,000?..... Why not 10,000? 50.000? 100,000? a million maybe?
Anyway Obama wants more sanctions Ever get that deja vu feeling?

sin_city

I suppose it would have been better to avoid the scenario in Crimea where I think zero people died.

I dunno maybe there were some issues there but I would say if anyone died it was a number less than 10.

How many have died in the Eastern part of Ukraine?

Please note, this question goes out to all you warmongers that put what you think it right(what the BBC say) over human life.

Remember the democratically elected government was overthrown by the West.

realweirdo

Clearly the Russians think that by slowly ratcheting up the invasion of Eastern Ukraine which they are doing, no-one will notice. They are probably right in this regard, most people in Europe or Ireland for that matter don't really care about what's happening in Ukraine, or what's happening outside their own locality.

Basically looks like Putin has declared war on Ukraine and there is no possibility now of a peaceful solution to all this thanks to his actions. He talks peace but really means war.

I would say the next stage is Russian fighters patroling Eastern Ukraine and providing air cover.

Another two fingers from Putin to the EU and the West.

gandalf

The only warmonger based on the evidence at hand are Putin and his military plus all the apologists for his tainted regime.

All of the deaths in the Ukraine are directly or indirectly because of his meddling in another sovereign states affairs.

InTheTrees

gandalf wrote: »

Yep lets hope we don't have another "peace in our time" fudge that we will all regret down the line.

That would be Merkel phoning putin to tell him how unhappy she is with all this kind of thing.

sin_city

gandalf wrote: »

The only warmonger based on the evidence at hand are Putin and his military plus all the apologists for his tainted regime.

All of the deaths in the Ukraine are directly or indirectly because of his meddling in another sovereign states affairs.

Putin prevented airstrikes on Assad last year based on "evidence" from the US state department.

Millions died based on this "evidence" too.
So many wars and governments overthrown based on "evidence"

How many died in the Ukraine before the western nazi back coup which overthrew the democratically elected government?

I get it, I get it....it wasn't on the BBC so it mustn't be true.

When the economy of Europe is in the dumps and the US is the most indebted country in the history of mankind why are NATO trying to expand to surround resource rich Russia?

I expect that the Spanish farmers wish they had nothing to do with this mess. Tough luck....the US is dragging all the European countries to risk relations with a main energy supplier over trying to surround Russia more.....once again, they overthrew the government.

InTheTrees

sin_city wrote: »

When the economy of Europe is in the dumps and the US is the most indebted country in the history of mankind why are NATO trying to expand to surround resource rich Russia?
.

Russia's rich resources (read: Oil) actually come from Siberia. And Siberian Separatists are starting to grumble about the way Moscow is taking the profits from them to finance putin's vanity projects.

Other than Oil what else does Russia have? Wood? Salt?

Do they make anything? Can you think of any household products made in Russia?

There's some makes of Russian cars but they're not up to western standards. And would anyone sane want to fly in a Russian aeroplane?

What else do they have?

sin_city

InTheTrees wrote: »

Russia's rich resources (read: Oil) actually come from Siberia. And Siberian Separatists are starting to grumble about the way Moscow is taking the profits from them to finance putin's vanity projects.

Other than Oil what else does Russia have? Wood? Salt?

Do they make anything? Can you think of any household products made in Russia?

There's some makes of Russian cars but they're not up to western standards. And would anyone sane want to fly in a Russian aeroplane?

What else do they have?

What an ignorant post.

Last I checked Siberia was in Russia. I’m sure they can deal with the grumbling in Moscow.

Were they grumbling more than the Scots did when all the North Sea oil profits went down south?

Grumbling….come on..Siberia has been part of Russia since the 1600s….I think they should get independence same as Tibet should….But I do live in the real world


Other than Oil….this is where you show your ignorance:

Russia supplies about 30% of Europe’s gas…they have just signed a $20 billion gat deal with China.
Russia accounts for around 20 percent of the world's production of oil and natural gas.
Russia possesses rich reserves of iron ore, manganese, chromium, nickel, platinum, titanium, copper, tin, lead, tungsten, diamonds, phosphates, and gold, and the forests of Siberia contain an estimated one-fifth of the world's timber
All 10 of Russia’s top exports posted double-digit gains over the 2009 to 2013 period, the slowest of which was Russian aluminium at 24%.

Does Russia make anything? Airplanes, not sure….Warships yes…they recently sold some to France. I’m sure you knew that.

Russia regularly runs trade surpluses…The US hasn’t had one in decades…the 80s maybe?

What is the US’s biggest export? Probably US dollars….guess how that has been going over the last few years?
Wonder what will happen when it loses the reserve status….well check out how the British did after they lost it?

I hope I’ve answered you’re query and maybe next time you’ll be more knowledgeable.