Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

Gatling

Morpheus wrote: »

Finland is also getting edgy....

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vladimir-putin-wants-regain-finland-says-close-adviser-1442466

Two words for putin

Simo Häyhä

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

not in the slightest surprised by this. Quote from Daily Mail on July 18th - "the day after"



I can't believe that some people take this stuff seriously - just the usual lies ahead of the NATO summit this week.

Propaganda in other words

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

Propaganda in other words

Do you believe that Putin wants to annex Finland?
The headline says "close advisor" - read a few sentences into the article and it says "ex advisor".
I put this latest fairytale in the same category as "Russians cutting up MH17 wreckage with chain saws and carting it back to Russia"

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Do you believe that Putin wants to annex Finland?
The headline says "close advisor" - read a few sentences into the article and it says "ex advisor".
I put this latest fairytale in the same category as "Russians cutting up MH17 wreckage with chain saws and carting it back to Russia"

I believe putin is on a holy crusade to return to the glory days of the ussr and total obedience for all concerned ,

If he's only fighting the Kiev nazis sure that's grand it's only a sovereign nation who wants to decide its own faith

pablomakaveli

Even Kazakhstan have been given reason to worry.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/kazakhs-worried-after-putin-questions-history-of-country-s-independence/506178.html

comongethappy

Morpheus wrote: »

Finland is also getting edgy....

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vladimir-putin-wants-regain-finland-says-close-adviser-1442466

Finland is frequently getting their airspace violated by Russian planes.

I think its OK to start considering Vladi a bit meglo at this point.

He is for all intents and purposes, king for life.
There is no effective mechanism in the Russian state for disagreeing with his will.

I'm sure his fan-boyz still consider all this a CIA plot of course.

BlaasForRafa

comongethappy wrote: »

Finland are frequently getting their airspace violated by Russian planes.

I think its OK to start considering Vladi a bit meglo at this point.

He is for all intents and purposes, king for life.
There is no effective mechanism in the Russian state for disagreeing with his will.

I'm sure his fan-boyz still consider all this a CIA plot of course.

Finland has had land stolen by the Russians before in 1940 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyborg , I'm not surprised they're getting nervous.

I had thought that Putin was a relatively rational person but the last week or so are more like the actions of a power-mad gambler, if he's not faced down now then it's hard to predict what will happen next. Russia has already hamstrung Moldova and Georgia by carving out enclaves but other than as expressions of Russian pride and power it's hard to see how the people there are any better off then they would be under the control of Moldova or Georgia. The best that Russia can hope for is to Transnistrianize the east of Ukraine.

WakeUp

Putin has designs way beyond Europe. cause when he invades Europe and thermo nuclear war ensues everyone survives. he knows that. once his conquest of Europe is complete he has his sights set on our solar system. starting with the moon.

back down here on planet earth, Ukraine, that joke of a place that just keeps giving is in a very healthy financial position..

Ukraine May Need Additional Bailout of $19Bln if Hostilities Continue: Agency Citing IMF:

MOSCOW, September 2 (RIA Novosti) – Ukraine may need an additional international bailout of $19 billion if the civil conflict in the east of the country continues into next year, Reuters reported Tuesday citing the International Monetary Fund’s (IMF) detailed review of its Stand-By Arrangement for Ukraine.
“The IMF warned that if the fighting continued into next year, Ukraine may need as much as $19 billion in additional financing from donors,” the agency said.
The fund said its next disbursement of the $17-billion bailout for Ukraine would be in mid-December and will amount to approximately $2.7 billion.

Ukraine is on the verge of a default, with the country’s authorities trying to rescue its economy with international loans.
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140902/192570882/Ukraine-May-Need-Additional-Bailout-of-19Bln-if-Hostilities.html?

so another 2.7 billion on the way to the Kiev simpletons, to be put to good use of course...Angela appears to be making promises too...

Merkel ready to facilitate provision of financial aid to Ukraine:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has assured Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko of her readiness to facilitate the provision of financial aid to Ukraine and humanitarian aid to the Donbas.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/merkel-ready-to-facilitate-provision-of-financial-aid-to-ukraine-363055.html?

Ukraine on the verge of default, donors at the ready to hand over the cash sure in the Knowledge that those smart individuals in Kiev are going to be prudent with their financial decisions and spend money only where required..

meanwhile in Kiev, the phucktards are building a subway.

Parliament ratify financial agreement on building subway in Dnipropetrovsk:

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has submitted to parliament a draft law on the ratification of the financial agreement on the project "The completion of building subway in Dnipropetrovsk" between Ukraine and the European Investment Bank, according to the presidential press service.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/parliament-ratify-financial-agreement-on-building-subway-in-dnipropetrovsk-363059.html?flavour=mobile

Ukraine.:D

realweirdo

WakeUp wrote: »

Putin has designs way beyond Europe. cause when he invades Europe and thermo nuclear war ensues everyone survives. he knows that. once his conquest of Europe is complete he has his sights set on our solar system. starting with the moon.

back down here on planet earth, Ukraine, that joke of a place that just keeps giving is in a very healthy financial position..

Ukraine May Need Additional Bailout of $19Bln if Hostilities Continue: Agency Citing IMF:

MOSCOW, September 2 (RIA Novosti) – Ukraine may need an additional international bailout of $19 billion if the civil conflict in the east of the country continues into next year, Reuters reported Tuesday citing the International Monetary Fund’s (IMF) detailed review of its Stand-By Arrangement for Ukraine.
“The IMF warned that if the fighting continued into next year, Ukraine may need as much as $19 billion in additional financing from donors,” the agency said.
The fund said its next disbursement of the $17-billion bailout for Ukraine would be in mid-December and will amount to approximately $2.7 billion.

Ukraine is on the verge of a default, with the country’s authorities trying to rescue its economy with international loans.
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140902/192570882/Ukraine-May-Need-Additional-Bailout-of-19Bln-if-Hostilities.html?

so another 2.7 billion on the way to the Kiev simpletons, to be put to good use of course...Angela appears to be making promises too...

Merkel ready to facilitate provision of financial aid to Ukraine:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has assured Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko of her readiness to facilitate the provision of financial aid to Ukraine and humanitarian aid to the Donbas.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/merkel-ready-to-facilitate-provision-of-financial-aid-to-ukraine-363055.html?

Ukraine on the verge of default, donors at the ready to hand over the cash sure in the Knowledge that those smart individuals in Kiev are going to be prudent with their financial decisions and spend money only where required..

meanwhile in Kiev, the phucktards are building a subway.

Parliament ratify financial agreement on building subway in Dnipropetrovsk:

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has submitted to parliament a draft law on the ratification of the financial agreement on the project "The completion of building subway in Dnipropetrovsk" between Ukraine and the European Investment Bank, according to the presidential press service.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/parliament-ratify-financial-agreement-on-building-subway-in-dnipropetrovsk-363059.html?flavour=mobile

Ukraine.:D

Ah yeh, Ukraines finances are a mess unlike Ireland for example. How much did we borrow again from IMF? 60 billion? For a country of 4 million. Ukraine with population of 50 million wants to borrow 19 billion mostly to defend itself from Russian aggression.

Agenda much?

aloyisious

The thing is that Vlad must know those whom he wants listen to him, are listening, but that there are also those others who hear him and are likely to "misinterpret" the words and take precipitate action which might cause a Tsunami in geopolitical terms. That seem's to be what's happening every day now in Ukraine, military responses to Militia responses in a "we must be seen to act" style. No one know's for sure what Vlad's end-game is or where it'll end.

WakeUp

realweirdo wrote: »

Ah yeh, Ukraines finances are a mess unlike Ireland for example. How much did we borrow again from IMF? 60 billion? For a country of 4 million. Ukraine with population of 50 million wants to borrow 19 billion mostly to defend itself from Russian aggression.

Agenda much?

and how many years of painful austerity has our people endured? how much misery have people taken. Ukraine is not in the EU what is Merkel doing promising them funds. are we building phuckin subways?..

realweirdo

He talks peace but has no such intentions. He wants a landbridge to Crimea and most of eastern Ukraine. He wants to go down in history as Vlad the Great. I don't think he really cares about sanctions or anything like that. He's entered meglomania territory as other posters have said. In that realm, he just won't take no for an answer. As long as there are Russian tanks and thousands of Russian troops in Ukraine there will never be peace.

realweirdo

WakeUp wrote: »

and how many years of painful austerity has our people endured? how much misery have people taken. Ukraine is not in the EU what is Merkel doing promising them funds. are we building phuckin subways?..

What exactly have you against subways or civilian infrastructure?

We are building roads, bridges and built airport terminals and just about everything else.

The Brits are broke and they are building subways and underground tracks.

As for Ukraine, the previous pro Russian regime stole billions. Maybe you'd like to ask him about where all the money went. Probably resting in a bank vault in Moscow as we speak.

WakeUp

yeah because thats what im saying. I have something against civillian infrastructure. gimme a break please. where we signing deals to build subways when we were on the brink, I dont believe we did. why is Merkel promising a non EU country funds. we will suck up more years of austerity and sure the EU can look after a non EU member. and you cant compare Britain to Ukraine. you just cant. are the British on the verge of defaulting. no they arent. as for the previous Ukrainian criminal thieving money. thats bad and all yeah. but not our problem.

carpejugulum

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Even Kazakhstan have been given reason to worry.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/kazakhs-worried-after-putin-questions-history-of-country-s-independence/506178.html

Kazakhstan and Belarus - both ruled by dictators - are Russia's last allies, but they should be very afraid indeed.

WakeUp

apparently Russia is isolated from the world and has no friends. its not like they signed the biggest pipeline construction deal in history with the Chinese. so now the Chinese have an interest, a pretty damn big one, in common with Russia. then there are the BRIC nations. but Russia is isolated and has no friends. the Americans and news says so.

Gatling

carpejugulum wrote: »

Kazakhstan and Belarus - both ruled by dictators - are Russia's last allies, but they should be very afraid indeed.

Take a marker a draw a line from Moldova via Ukraine and keep going to Estonia and you get what Vladimir and his storm troopers have in mind

comongethappy

WakeUp wrote: »

apparently Russia is isolated from the world and has no friends. its not like they signed the biggest pipeline construction deal in history with the Chinese. so now the Chinese have an interest, a pretty damn big one, in common with Russia. then there are the BRIC nations. but Russia is isolated and has no friends. the Americans and news says so.

Is there a purpose or is it just to be the contrarian, or is it genuinely galling for you anyone speaks ill of the Russian President-in-perpetuity?
(Every post seems to be retaliatory in some way).

I'm always baffled the same folk bang on about BRICS like its some sort of EU rival.
Its a subset of G20, with no sign of a customs union anytime soon.
And if it happens, more power to South Africa, Russia etc.

I hope the irony of Russia seeking to enhance trade with other nations while invading neighbouring nations for daring do similar isn't lost on the Putinistas.

WakeUp

comongethappy wrote: »

Is there a purpose or is it just to be the contrarian, or is it genuinely galling for you anyone speaks ill of the Russian President-in-perpetuity?
(Every post seems to be retaliatory in some way).

I'm always baffled the same folk bang on about bricks like its some sort of EU rival.
Its a subset of G20, with no sign of a customs union anytime soon.
And if it happens, more power to South Africa, Russia etc.

I hope the irony of Russia seeking to enhance trade with other nations while invading neighbouring nations for daring do similar isn't lost on the Putinistas.

yeah thats what it is. its galling for me and I cant handle anyone speaking ill of the shirtless Putin. cause hes my hero. hmmm. the poster above me said Russia has only two allies. allies being friends - it isnt accurate. Im merely pointing it out. and why do you think the Russians have started to seek trade elsewhere. Im also a putinista, Kremlin shill pushing an agenda, obviously. though please continue. Ill continue to contribute to this thread if and when I feel like it, if thats alright with you. having a differing point of view seems above the comprehension levels of some on this thread and automatically places you in Vlads pocket. cause thats how the world works, right.

realweirdo

Russia sells oil and gas to most of Europe. Doesn't make them all allies. Russia has something everyone wants, energy.

Russia is pretty friendless at the minute however. Ukraine has made genuine attempts to remain friends with Russia since the breakup of the USSR. Giving up nuclear arms. Not joining NATO. Trade deals, etc. Fat lot of good it did them. Russia seems to be one of those countries that doesn't care if it has friends or not. In fact as a nation they have become very arrogant and nationalistic in recent years, looking down on everyone else with distain. Not sure why. Still clinging to a belief they are a super-power it must be.

I think the Ukrainians would be best served by letting go a portion of their far eastern territory and then joining NATO and the EU. Its always going to be a troublespot in that region so why bother with it.

comongethappy

WakeUp wrote: »

I cant handle anyone speaking ill of the shirtless Putin cause hes my hero. Im also a putinista, Kremlin shill pushing an agenda,

Okey-dokey.

At least you have it off your chest.

I would agree with you though, Russia does have allies in the form of a mutual defence union: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization
As well as a trade union http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Economic_Union
Though it seems to be vassal dictatorships making up the numbers for the most part.

I wouldn't consider a friendly state an ally.

Ireland is on pretty good terms with New Zealand.
Allies we ain't.

Gatling

realweirdo wrote: »

Russia sells oil and gas to most of Europe. Doesn't make them all allies. Russia has something everyone wants, energy.

Russia is pretty friendless at the minute however. Ukraine has made genuine attempts to remain friends with Russia since the breakup of the USSR. Giving up nuclear arms. Not joining NATO. Trade deals, etc. Fat lot of good it did them.

I think the Ukrainians would be best served by letting go a portion of their far eastern territory and then joining NATO and the EU. Its always going to be a troublespot in that region so why bother with it.

The problem is even if they did give up the coal and steel industry areas based in eastern Ukraine a few months down the line they would invade western Ukraine under some defending against nazis propaganda

realweirdo

Looks like Crimea didn't turn out so well for the Russians or the locals.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-06-02/now-joined-to-russia-crimeas-economy-is-sliding-downhill

I wonder are they regretting it now. I'd imagine unemployment is on the rise.

A year from now, when sanctions have taken their toll on the Russian economy and Crimea is in poverty, they will all come to regret their actions. Or maybe Putin will have moved on to his next foreign policy disaster.

The problem with carving up nations is that you destroy the economic connections that took a long time to create.

WakeUp

comongethappy wrote: »

Okey-dokey.

At least you have it off your chest.

I would agree with you though, Russia does have allies in the form of a mutual defence union: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization
As well as a trade union http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Economic_Union
Though it seems to be vassal dictatorships making up the numbers for the most part.

I wouldn't consider a friendly state an ally.

Ireland is on pretty good terms with New Zealand.
Allies we ain't.

yep. I have it off my chest as you insinuated and then proceeded to say so for me. nice one for that. you can all continue to believe that the Russians are all on their own and to keep pushing this because they are evil hell bent on conquering the world or some bullsh1t like that, wont have severe consequences. and Im going to continue pointing out the reality of the situation. the writing appears to be on the wall for Ukraine rightly or wrongly. unless you want to go to war with Russia. or the people in Kiev grow some braincells and start talking. the latter seems a bit far fetched though on current showing.

Gatling

WakeUp wrote: »

yep. I have it off my chest as you insinuated and then proceeded to say so for me. nice one for that. you can all continue to believe that the Russians are all on their own and to keep pushing this because they are evil hell bent on conquering the world or some bullsh1t like that, wont have severe consequences. and Im going to continue pointing out the reality of the situation. the writing appears to be on the wall for Ukraine rightly or wrongly. unless you want to go to war with Russia. or the people in Kiev grow some braincells and start talking. the latter seems a bit far fetched though on current showing.

Why should kiev start talking exactly they were invaded werent they ,
Or do you mean kiev surrender all together and submit to a Russian chosen puppet government

WakeUp

Gatling wrote: »

Why should kiev start talking exactly they were invaded werent they ,
Or do you mean kiev surrender all together and submit to a Russian chosen puppet government

because they dont have a choice. Crimea is gone and the rebels in Donbass have declared indpendence. this is the reality of the situation whether you or I like it or not. they need to start talking its their only option. if they continue with their aggressive stance toward Russia, which I understand by the way but its the wrong play, its over for them. Putin will boil them slowly. like a frog in a pot. and Winter is coming. they have limited options. because war with Russia just isnt an option unless you want us all dead. and sanctions are having the opposite effect.

comongethappy

WakeUp wrote: »

Russians are all on their own and to keep pushing this because they are evil hell bent on conquering the world or some bullsh1t like that.

You never seem to tire of making errors.
I don't speak ill of Russians, I'm 1/4 Russian myself (courtesy of my maternal grand father born near St Petersburg).

I'm fairly confident my links to Russia run deeper than most here.

I do have beef with the little meglo fellow sitting at his gilded desk in Moscow surrounded by those too frightened to disagree.

But that's where my beef ends.

the people in Kiev grow some braincells and start talking.

They probably will once they realise they cannot defeat Putin militarily.

Its a shame you seem so gleeful that they will probably have to cowtow to this bully tyrant.

Red Nissan

WakeUp wrote: »

or the people in Kiev grow some braincells and start talking. the latter seems a bit far fetched though on current showing.

Not only current showing, if we don't destroy the planet over this, we can still be typing the same thing into a Boards IE forum in 2155 and have the LONGEST thread in history while we are at it!

WakeUp

comongethappy wrote: »

You never seem to tire of making errors.
I don't speak ill of Russians, I'm 1/4 Russian myself (courtesy of my maternal grand father born near St Petersburg).

I'm fairly confident my links to Russia run deeper than most here.

I do have beef with the little meglo fellow sitting at his gilded desk in Moscow surrounded by those too frightened to disagree.

But that's where my beef ends.



They probably will once they realise they cannot defeat Putin militarily.

Its a shame you seem so gleeful that they will probably have to cowtow to this bully tyrant.

well now youre making some errors here yourself comeon youre making assumptions on my behalf - like placing me in the Putin camp and thinking Im happy at what may become of Ukraine. though Ill give you this I think their politicians and leaders in Kiev are idiots. and I want nothing to do with them. that doesnt mean Im happy they are idiots. I just think they are.

Red Nissan

:eek:

comongethappy wrote: »

Its a shame you seem so gleeful that they will probably have to cowtow to this bully tyrant.

I believe they demoted or decommissioned a general in the last war for these exact words.

"We should go on to Moscow while we still have an army in Europe to do it rather than come back and have to do it all again!" Who said that and when.