Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

Gatling

steveblack wrote: »

So you deny a pregnant woman was murdered in odessa by the ukrainian right sector?
Google it , or would you rather have me post the link and get banned?

Actually its bull**** the pregnant woman in Odessa ,

Wasn't pregnant she was in her 50's while all the other deaths in the same building were badly charred or died from gunshot wounds after getting caught in a crossfire ,

Except this woman who's body was staged on top of a desk ,


Heres a link to a french news outlet who interviews the lady who took the photograph ,

Caution
* in the link there is a small blurred image of the victims face *


http://observers.france24.com/content/20140513-strangled-woman-odessa-photo-ukraine

steveblack

In this tread post #2056 has the most vile quotes by representatives of the Ukrainian government.
Not a single poster has disputed these quotes, or said they where taken out of context.

The quotes of a Nazi, Homophobic, racist and full of ethnic hate.
It OK he is one of the good guys, the western media has told us this.
So you support a Nazi regime?

"Nations don't have friends or enemies...nations only have interests?"
"The special relationship is so special only one country know about it"
The USA dont care about Europe its looking after its own interest.

gandalf

steveblack wrote: »

In this tread post #2056 has the most vile quotes by representatives of the Ukrainian government.
Not a single poster has disputed these quotes, or said they where taken out of context.

The quotes of a Nazi, Homophobic, racist and full of ethnic hate.
It OK he is one of the good guys, the western media has told us this.
So you support a Nazi regime?

"Nations don't have friends or enemies...nations only have interests?"
"The special relationship is so special only one country know about it"
The USA dont care about Europe its looking after its own interest.

steve that says absolutely nothing about the SU-25. I am waiting for a source to back up your claims that a SU-25 prepped the way you specified can operate with air to air missile systems at 10,000 metres.

Once I see the phrase Nazi etc bandied around as you are doing now I know you are just engaging in deflection and cannot back up your utterances.

steveblack

gandalf wrote: »

So alls great in Crimea providing your not Gay, a Tartar or any other minority or don't agree with the Russian Government.

“Long live the White Races, and down with the Semite-led subhumans and interracial contacts”

and

“The historic mission of our nation in this critical moment is to lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade for their survival. A crusade against the Semite-led subhumans”.

and

“Punish severely sexual perversions and any interracial contacts that lead to the extinction of the white man”.

And

“Prepare for further expansion and to struggle for the liberation of the entire White Race from the domination of the internationalist speculative capital”.

The person who said this is the commander of the the Azov Battalion currently fighting to “liberate” eastern Ukraine from the evil Russians.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/13...torm-troopers/

From post #2056 but lets forget about that, Putin/ Russia evil.

aloyisious

Has anyone seen any Satellite photos of troops, vehicles, artillery of any side within Ukraine or Russia showing them moving or firing? I would have thought that both sides would have either direct or indirect access to high resolution photos proving the other side are the baddies.

I see from tomorrow's papers that the "he said this - no, I said that" slanging match is still going on about the "ceasefire", with Ukraine now rejecting the Russian offers.

steveblack

Gatling wrote: »

Actually its bull**** the pregnant woman in Odessa ,

Wasn't pregnant she was in her 50's while all the other deaths in the same building were badly charred or died from gunshot wounds after getting caught in a crossfire ,

Except this woman who's body was staged on top of a desk ,


Heres a link to a french news outlet who interviews the lady who took the photograph ,

Caution
* in the link there is a small blurred image of the victims face *


http://observers.france24.com/content/20140513-strangled-woman-odessa-photo-ukraine

So you are ok with a old woman being killed by the right sector?
If she was pregnant it would be a problem?
Your link says old woman, others say pregnant woman, videos show a building under attack/flames and a voice of a woman can be heard cry for help.
Who staged the photo? Odessa is under the control of the Kiev government?

Crossfire? Very accurate head shots from the photos i seen.

gandalf

So no proof then Steve, pull the nazi's out of the closet to deflect. Ah well I am disappointed.

Are there extreme right wingers in the Ukraine, yes there are. There are some on the Government side and there are some fighting for the Russians as well.

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=42481&no_cache=1#.VAebpxZU_i4

Oh look Russian soldiers like "White power" too

http://www.channel4.com/news/have-soldiers-selfies-given-away-russias-role-in-ukraine

Then again Russia seems to be Nazi central

In a 2007 news story, ABC News reported, "In a country that lost more people defeating the Nazis than any other country, there are now an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-Nazis, half of the world's total.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3718255&page=1#.UCDbiaA4SuI

You'd think with its own Neo Nazi problem Russia would be more discreet using the label?

Elmer Blooker

gandalf wrote: »

Again have you sources for the higher ceiling specifications that you are quoting. Anything I have read is a maximum ceiling of 7000 metres, 5000 metres when it is fully armed.

we've been through all this weeks ago, can a SU25 reach 10000m? Yes it can.

gandalf

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

we've been through all this weeks ago, can a SU25 reach 10000m? Yes it can.

Proof please.

steveblack

gandalf wrote: »

steve that says absolutely nothing about the SU-25. I am waiting for a source to back up your claims that a SU-25 prepped the way you specified can operate with air to air missile systems at 10,000 metres.

Once I see the phrase Nazi etc bandied around as you are doing now I know you are just engaging in deflection and cannot back up your utterances.

Give me a response to post #2056, is it indefensible so just ignore it?
Yet again lies, omissions, distortions of facts and demonising of Putin and Russia.

gandalf

steveblack wrote: »

Give me a response to post #2056, is it indefensible so just ignore it?
Yet again lies, omissions, distortions of facts and demonising of Putin and Russia.

You provide the proof that a SU-25 can operate with air to air missiles installed at 10000 metres and I will.

BTW when you invade other sovereign nations you do tend to get bad things said about you.

Gatling

steveblack wrote: »

So you are ok with a old woman being killed by the right sector?
If she was pregnant it would be a problem?
Your link says old woman, others say pregnant woman, videos show a building under attack/flames and a voice of a woman can be heard cry for help.
Who staged the photo? Odessa is under the control of the Kiev government?

Crossfire? Very accurate head shots from the photos i seen.

Come on now you kept on at gandalf to look at pictures of a dead pregnant woman killed by the right sector serveral times you demanded it ,

Now i link a respected news outlet that puts a massive debunk on your claims ,

You can prove 110% who killed this old dear ?

Natural casuses ruled out ?

You can identity 100% this woman was the woman who was screaming in what ever videos your claiming to have watched

steveblack

gandalf wrote: »

You provide the proof that a SU-25 can operate with air to air missiles installed at 10000 metres and I will.

BTW when you invade other sovereign nations you do tend to get bad things said about you.

My post is older than yours, prove it false, prove it not the words of a homophobic racist NAZI.
Regards MH17 the US State Dept has now shifted its position from ‘Russian atrocity’ to ‘tragic accident’. I wonder why?
Its the way of Russophobic posters here to just ignore evidence that does not conform to their view.

gandalf

steveblack wrote: »

My post is older than yours, prove it false, prove it not the words of a homophobic racist NAZI.
Regards MH17 the US State Dept has now shifted its position from ‘Russian atrocity’ to ‘tragic accident’. I wonder why?
Its the way of Russophobic posters here to just ignore evidence that does not conform to their view.

I did answer the nazi thing a few posts back. There are Neo Nazi's fighting for both sides. There are Neo-Nazi's in the Russian forces. However because there are a few Neo Nazi's fighting for either sides I don't label them all as Nazi's.

The fact here is this whole situation has been made worse by Russia supplying arms, mercenaries and now troops to destabilise and conquer part if not all of a neighbouring sovereign nation.

Now I have answered this over two posts are you going to provide the backup to your claim that a SU-25 armed with Air to Air missiles can operate at 10,000 metres.

steveblack

Gatling wrote: »

Come on now you kept on at gandalf to look at pictures of a dead pregnant woman killed by the right sector serveral times you demanded it ,

Now i link a respected news outlet that puts a massive debunk on your claims ,

You can prove 110% who killed this old dear ?

Natural casuses ruled out ?

You can identity 100% this woman was the woman who was screaming in what ever videos your claiming to have watched

A building under attack by right sector Nazis.
She was strangled to death dont sound too natural.

Its ok , the dead woman might not be pregnant just old, depending on your sources.

steveblack

So the Secretary General of NATO Anders Fogh Rasmussen is mouthing off about Russia.
Secretary is the right term, never served a day in the military.
This is the same person who regarding Iraq said “Iraq has WMDs. It is not something we think, it is something we know. Iraq has itself admitted that it has had mustard gas, nerve gas, anthrax, but Saddam won't disclose. He won't tell us where and how these weapons have been destroyed. We know this from the UN inspectors, so there is no doubt in my mind.”
The 4th of september 2014, eleven years after the invasion of Iraq no MD’s have been found.

So you trust this man to be telling you the truth about the Ukraine?

The Ukrainian are full of right sector Nazis who regard Stepan Bandera as a hero. Read about him, he is a Nazi?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
Open your mind, use the internet to see beyond the official version of events.
Do you remember when the IMF came to Ireland, not a peep on RTE news, it was all over sky news.
Dont believe everything you are told, look a little closer to get the truth.

Gatling

steveblack wrote: »

A building under attack by right sector Nazis.
She was strangled to death dont sound too natural.

Its ok , the dead woman might not be pregnant just old, depending on your sources.

You didn't answer my questions at all

Elmer Blooker

gandalf wrote: »

You provide the proof that a SU-25 can operate with air to air missiles installed at 10000 metres and I will.

BTW when you invade other sovereign nations you do tend to get bad things said about you.

I posted this link weeks ago and I'm posting it again. It clearly says that a SU 25 has a ceiling of 10,000m.
http://www.redstar.gr/Foto_red/Eng/Aircraft/Su_25M1.html

steveblack

Gatling wrote: »

You didn't answer my questions at all

And we are back to square one, lies, omissions, distortions of facts and demonising of Putin and Russia, all because the US instigated a violent regime change in Ukraine and it's not going to plan.

Refute post #2056, dont try and skip over it.

gandalf

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I posted this link weeks ago and I'm posting it again. It clearly says that a SU 25 has a ceiling of 10,000m.
http://www.redstar.gr/Foto_red/Eng/Aircraft/Su_25M1.html

Thanks for that. Now is that 10000 metres with armaments or not? Is it capable of that with external weapons like air to air systems?

Elmer Blooker

gandalf wrote: »

Thanks for that. Now is that 10000 metres with armaments or not? Is it capable of that with external weapons like air to air systems?

The question is who dunnit? goodnight.

steveblack

The anti Russia playbook in full effect.
You are to fill posts with lies, omissions, distortions of facts and demonising of Putin and Russia.
Ignore every post that does not conform with the west's view.

Su-25 in the "VICINITY" of MH17, 7,8,9,10 thousand meters altitude for a Su-25 that is what a rational person would call in the "VICINITY" of MH17 exactly as the Russians have stated.
Armed with a R-60 missile capable of 3,000kph flight, could it hit a slow MH17?

The murder of a woman by the right sector in Odessa is OK, it don't matter if she was pregnant or elderly.

They still wont Refute post #2056.
I wonder why?

steveblack

gandalf wrote: »

Thanks for that. Now is that 10000 metres with armaments or not? Is it capable of that with external weapons like air to air systems?

As if any county is going to post the full capabilities of their military/weapons.

Refute post #2056.

The west has backed the Nazis, accept it.
History will show Russia was on the right side in this conflict.

Gatling

steveblack wrote: »

Su-25 in the "VICINITY" of MH17, 7,8,9,10 thousand meters altitude for a Su-25 that is what a rational person would call in the "VICINITY" of MH17 exactly as the Russians have stated.
Armed with a R-60 missile capable of 3,000kph flight, could it hit a slow MH17?

The murder of a woman by the right sector in Odessa is OK, it don't matter if she was pregnant or elderly.

They still wont Refute post #2056.
I wonder why?

Where is this information, radar screens ?
videos of the radar interception ? or are you saying the Russians told you?
And do you have any verified independent sources to show and back up your claims ??

steveblack

Still wont Refute post #2056.
Its ok, i understand, your whole world view has been turned upside down.
It will take a while to come to your senses and realize that everything you see on the TV News is not true.

Still no comment on post #2056.
I wonder why?

Gatling

steveblack wrote: »

Still wont Refute post #2056.
Its ok, i understand, your whole world view has been turned upside down.
It will take a while to come to your senses and realize that everything you see on the TV News is not true.

Still no comment on post #2056.
I wonder why?

You understand this is a discussion forum your making all these wild accusations and claims but won't back it any thing up with verified links , independent information to Support your claims at all

steveblack

post #2056 has plenty of links, You don't seem to understand this is a discussion form, i have made no wild accusations, i have backed them with links, yet no one will refute them.

Dont attack the poster, attack the post.
Fill your boots with post #2056.

WakeUp

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

brilliant post steveblack, an excellent analysis in my opinion.

There is nothing tragic about this as far as the US of A is concerned, their plan is going beautifully - us Europeans mean nothing to them, I am beginning to believe now that militarists and not politicians are now running Europe.

I have some American friends bright people and they are actually laughing at us here in Europe, as to how the leaders over here can be so stupid as to be manipulated into a conflict with Russia on behalf of US interests . European leaders should be putting European interests first. and its not in our interests to have conflict with Russia. the Americans and their Nato stooges like the punk raswhatever are now involved in a proxy war with Russia, through Kiev, on Russias border. so Vlad is currently carving out himself a bufferzone in the south and east of Ukraine rightly or wrongly. its the Americans who are driving the sanction war between Europe and Russia. and they dont seem to be suffering from sanctions. both Europe and Russia particularly Europe are feeling them and its going to get worse. do people honestly believe the Americans give a sh1t about us. because they dont. they care about themselves, obviously. they swooped in at the end of world war 2 when Europe lay in rubble and took over. it would be in European interests to have stronger ties with Russia and Asia and that wouldnt be good for the Americans. they are driving a wedge between us and Russia that may never recover and driving us toward war. war between Europe and Russia who benefits. it wont be either us or Russia. thats for sure. maybe Merkel gets it. we shall see.

Icepick

steveblack wrote: »

So for any anti Russian posts you can quote any source and it is valid?

Any source that some how differs from the western line of events is suspect?

Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) is a broadcaster funded by the U.S. government. Totally impartial no doubt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Liberty

Can you refute the claims?
Has Kremlin not supplied instructions on what to say on this topic yet?

Also, USA is not 'a side in the conflict.'

gandalf

steveblack wrote: »

As if any county is going to post the full capabilities of their military/weapons.

So that's a no I can't back up what I said then yes?

steveblack wrote: »

Refute post #2056.

The west has backed the Nazis, accept it.
History will show Russia was on the right side in this conflict.

I have responded see below.

Also both sides are in the wrong but what history will show as it did with the Sudetenland is that Russia destablised on purpose a neighbouring sovereign nation initially by indirect military action and then more recently by direct military action. The justification you seem to be using is that the US did bad things therefore Russia is allowed to do them as well. This kind of though process is fine on the playground but in the adult world it doesn't cut it.

You are the one telling us to open our eyes. At this stage you should really practice what you preach or get off the bus

gandalf wrote: »

So no proof then Steve, pull the nazi's out of the closet to deflect. Ah well I am disappointed.

Are there extreme right wingers in the Ukraine, yes there are. There are some on the Government side and there are some fighting for the Russians as well.

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=42481&no_cache=1#.VAebpxZU_i4

Oh look Russian soldiers like "White power" too

http://www.channel4.com/news/have-soldiers-selfies-given-away-russias-role-in-ukraine

Then again Russia seems to be Nazi central

"In a 2007 news story, ABC News reported, "In a country that lost more people defeating the Nazis than any other country, there are now an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-Nazis, half of the world's total. "

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3718255&page=1#.UCDbiaA4SuI

You'd think with its own Neo Nazi problem Russia would be more discreet using the label?

gandalf wrote: »

I did answer the nazi thing a few posts back. There are Neo Nazi's fighting for both sides. There are Neo-Nazi's in the Russian forces. However because there are a few Neo Nazi's fighting for either sides I don't label them all as Nazi's.

The fact here is this whole situation has been made worse by Russia supplying arms, mercenaries and now troops to destabilise and conquer part if not all of a neighbouring sovereign nation.

Now I have answered this over two posts are you going to provide the backup to your claim that a SU-25 armed with Air to Air missiles can operate at 10,000 metres.