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Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.
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Has there been any real proof of a russian invasion, you know good videos or photos or are you happy with some stranger on facebook saying it happened.
The satellite pictures released by NATO look well dodgy,left over black and white ww2 reconnaissance pictures,with a nice layer of vaseline over the lense. Google earth has better quality photos of the cars outside my house.
The was a expert on the tv and in his opinion he can see that some people appear to be wearing what looks to be russian army clothing, that to me means nothing, sure i can go to a army surplus store tomorrow and get dressed head to toe in army clothes.So if you saw me walking around ireland tomorrow dressed in army clothes would you consider that proof of a invasion.
It appears to be that the ukraine army is taking a beating from a rag tag bunch of rebels and are trying to save face by claiming they have been invaded by russia.
The very latest Russian artillery , armoured vehicles in there 100's .air defence systems , drones .
and special forces only issued gear .
They found these in an army surplus store ?
Currently there are no listing for army surplus stores in eastern Ukraine .
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well the west have involved themselves havent they?..so they are a now a party to this. Ill point this out for the I dont know how many time but Ukraine is neither a member of the EU nor of Nato..right so,,,whats the plan then?...
Hopefully tight squeezing sanctions till russia withdraws unconditionally from Ukraine and allow Ukrainians to decide there own countries fate .
Ukraine will most likely then apply to join the EU and or NATO.
Now what would happen if either happened would be down to how desperate the Russians want half or all of Ukraine,
Let's hope we don't get to find out
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You cant bully Russia. you cant bully a nuclear power. so these sanctions that are designed to try and bully and intimidate Russia to come around are not going to work. ever. Ukraine will never be in Nato at least not Ukraine as an entire unit. Putin is waiting for Winter. when the gas is cut and the Ukrainians start freezing to death among other things I give them a week before they have no choice but to sit down with the Russians. they should talk to them now before the snows set in.
No see the EU will supply Ukraine with fuel remember this isn't the first time russia has threatened to turn off the heating it's been a regular occurance for kiev since the orange revolution the original uprising in Ukraine,
I ask if russia won't be bullied why should russia be allowed to bully Ukraine .
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no but you see they wont. how is the EU going to supply Ukraine with fuel if they sanction they very people providing us with the energy? and in turn those very same people go actually alright fair enough so phuck you too and turn off the gas. and what if they decide to turn it off anyway. where is the energy going to come from. if we have supply issues here in the EU no gas will be leaving the union in reverse flows or whatever, that much is obvious. look I understand that Russia shouldnt be allowed to bully Ukraine and all that and I agree but the west is trying to bully nuclear armed Russia. that isnt going to work. not now not ever.
What I'm seeing in your posts in Russia has nukes there for we all bow before them , let them have half of Ukraine or all of if they want it's a necessary evil .
then the can roll into the cocky Baltic states as one misinformed poster calls them under the guise of protecting Russian speakers .
Once a bully starts hurting people there is only one way to make them stop you stand up hit back hard .The Russia economy is heading for a downward spiral as it is .
Sooner or later the Russian public will want to know why they have been isolated
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AbusesToilets wrote: »There are other sources of energy, particularly natural gas. The US could certainly have the capacity to supply Europe, and with Russia's supply cut off, the perfect storm of opportunity and ability to stick it to a rival.
but you see they dont. thats fairlyland stuff. its nonsense.
Recent entreaties by various US politicians to help wean Europe off of Russian gas are simply preposterous. The numbers don't add up, and they never will.
Let's begin with the facts:
16% of natural gas consumed in Europe flows through Ukraine
Europe, including all EU members plus Turkey, Norway, Switzerland, and the non-EU Balkan states, consumed 18.7 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of natural gas in 2013. Russia supplied 30% (5.7 Tcf) of this volume, with a significant amount flowing through Ukraine. EIA estimates that 16% (3.0 Tcf) of the total natural gas consumed in Europe passed through Ukraine's pipeline network, based on data reported by Gazprom and Eastern Bloc Energy.
(Source)
If the US wants Europe entirely off of Russian natural gas (NG), it will have to immediately replace 5.7 trillion cubic feet per year, or 15 billion cubic feet per day.
The entire set of US shale gas plays, which consist of 8 major plays and a slew of minor ones, cumulatively provide the US with 27 billion cubic feet per day. That is, just over half of the entire current US shale gas play would have to be dedicated to the European cause of eliminating Russian natural gas dependency.
And even with the shale plays, in April 2014 the US remains a net gas importer. In 2013, the most recent full year of data, the US had to import 1.3 trillion cubic feet to satisfy domestic consumption.
More pointedly, 2013 was a pretty cold winter, the kind that comes along every so often, and the US barely made it through that period without running dangerously low on NG as it was.
To make it through the heavy demands of winter natural gas must be stockpiled in advance. As a result, the gas storage report always shows seasonal builds and draw downs of natural gas:
In all my years of watching the energy statistics I've never seen NG storage get this low. Look how far below the average 5 year range it got...all the way down to just 800 billion cubic feet in storage.
And this was with the "shale gas miracle" chugging along merrily in the background.
If the US had magically managed to have the appropriate liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminals all built and had wanted to completely supply Europe with US gas to replace Russian gas, it could have only done so for 53 days (800 bcf/15 bcf/day) before the US would have completely run out of its gas in storage.
Of course, this could never be done. If NG ever gets too low in storage, you run the risk of having the pressure drop in all the associated pipelines and delivery systems to such a low level that things have to be shut down. Pilot lights go out, system pressures falter in some areas before others, turbines can't be run, and industrial processes terminate.
If you thought the winter of 2013 was hard, imagine it with the added specter of having to re-light every residential pilot light in a region. There are not enough service people to do that.
And well before a crisis moment like that arrives, a form of utility triage would be implemented; Step 1 of which would be shutting off exports of LNG to Europe and any other ex-US destinations.
What then would Europe do? Freeze and suffer through its own chain of shortage-related failures because the US could not actually supply what was needed?
What would quickly happen is that Europe would return to Russia for at least part of its gas needs. So all that the US could ever do, realistic or not, is supplant some of Russia's role as NG supplier to Europe.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-20/us-gas-will-never-replace-russian-gas-europe0 -
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You cannot not prove otherwise.
Sure they are losing the plot, Ukrainian government intends to approve Yatsenyuk’s border wall plan,the border with Russia is 2,295 km long. They want the broke EU to pay for it.
Yatsenyuk wants a 4 metre wide and 2 metre deep ditch to keep the russians from invading.
It sounds like something you would read on The Onion web site.
Where is all this exactly ,
Have you anything to back up what your claiming
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Fig of Fallacy wrote: »Not sure what part of the post your referring to as nonsense. If by any chances your referring to the claims that Kiev has embarked on a murder spree against civilians in the east of the country while trying to seize those areas, you should think again.
A big part of this current problem/argument we are all having is that the western audiences have not seen the carnage on TV screens or elsewhere (or at least its been heavily sanitized in order to make Kiev out as good guys etc).
What the Kiev government has done in the east is almost at the same level as what was happening in Gaza. Just less than a thousand civilians have been killed by indiscriminate shelling and bombing. Hundreds of thousands of people have fled over the border to Russia.
When the russian aid convoys were going into the besieged areas the NATO countries were screaming invasion and so was Kiev! You cant get more immoral and outrageous than that.
I seem to remember you saying about genocide and racist crimes perpetuated by the Ukrainian government.
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