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Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

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    #242
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    robindch wrote: »
    ...a comment suggesting that you know little or nothing of either the USA or Russia.

    Here's the main Russian state-controlled "news" outlet. It's a bit like Fox News, save that it's more obviously makey-uppey, and good heavens, that's saying something:

    http://www.rt.com

    The newscasters are better looking (the women), nice glass tables and less gung ho, seem more professional to me.
    I thinkt hey at least appear to present a more balance approach.


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    #243
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    Germany frankly doesn't have to balls to mobilise troops even if it were a defensive action.


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    #244
    czx
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    cerastes wrote: »
    The newscasters are better looking (the women), nice glass tables and less gung ho, seem more professional to me.
    I thinkt hey at least appear to present a more balance approach.

    Nice glass tables
    Lol


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    #245
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    robindch wrote: »
    Poland announced yesterday that it has moved tanks and troops to the Ukrainian border:

    http://www.news.com.au/world/russian-troop-invasion-encircles-crimeas-capital-as-ukraine-pm-declares-the-nation-to-be-on-brink-of-disaster/story-fndir2ev-1226843109609

    I don't believe Germany has made any possibly-relevant movements of men or materiel.

    The Germans? Probably terrified that they'll get another hiding from the Russians.


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    #246
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    robindch wrote: »
    Poland announced yesterday that it has moved tanks and troops to the Ukrainian border:

    http://www.news.com.au/world/russian-troop-invasion-encircles-crimeas-capital-as-ukraine-pm-declares-the-nation-to-be-on-brink-of-disaster/story-fndir2ev-1226843109609

    I don't believe Germany has made any possibly-relevant movements of men or materiel.

    Polish ministry of defense yesterday said it was training unrelated to Ukraine situation on Twitter.


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    #247
    Conas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Conas


    robindch wrote: »
    ...a comment suggesting that you know little or nothing of either the USA or Russia.

    Here's the main Russian state-controlled "news" outlet. It's a bit like Fox News, save that it's more obviously makey-uppey, and good heavens, that's saying something:

    http://www.rt.com

    I wouldn't be as biased as you are though. Fox News is pure and utter garbage, owned by Rupert Murdoch, CEO is Roger Ailes, so I wouldn't expect anything less. At least with RT they get on people who are a lot more controversial, and they don't shout people down, or cut them off. Fox News drummed up the Iraq war with their out and out rubbish talk, so wouldn't be going to them over the Ukraine thing.


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    #248
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    The Germans? Probably terrified that they'll get another hiding from the Russians.

    Moot point as Germany would not be fighting alone.

    Though Merkel has been the busiest of the EU leaders is seems.

    She has much more resolve than Cameron.


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    #249
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Conmaicne Mara wrote: »
    ...I wonder what would Putins next move be if tanks appeared on trains in Germany, Poland and a few other states heading towards Ukraine border, invited by that Govt to "secure the peace" so to speak.
    Who knows - maybe this time they'll take Moscow


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    #250
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    Conas wrote: »
    I wouldn't be as biased as you are though. Fox News is pure and utter garbage, owned by Rupert Murdoch, CEO is Roger Ailes, so I wouldn't expect anything less. At least with RT they get on people who are a lot more controversial, and they don't shout people down, or cut them off. Fox News drummed up the Iraq war with their out and out rubbish talk, so wouldn't be going to them over the Ukraine thing.

    Fox is a company owned by shareholders.

    It is not a National broadcaster, receives no taxpayer funding & barely mentions anything without bashing the presidency.

    Unlike the Ruskies state media...

    I'm not sure you understand the meaning if 'propeganda'.

    Have you ever been to the US?


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    #251
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Moot point as Germany would not be fighting alone.

    Though Merkel has been the busiest of the EU leaders is seems.

    She has much more resolve than Cameron.

    Indeed but there are plenty of p1ssed off PIIGS who'd just love to see the Germans get a pasting...

    As Kent Brockman declared in the Simpsons "I for one welcpme our new Overlords..."


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    #252
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Reekwind wrote: »
    Who knows - maybe this time they'll take Moscow
    Full marks - a "Red Storm Rising" quote.


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    #253
    bobcoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭bobcoffee


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Fox is a company owned by shareholders.

    It is not a National broadcaster, receives no taxpayer funding & barely mentions anything without bashing the presidency.

    Unlike the Ruskies state media...

    I'm not sure you understand the meaning if 'propeganda'.

    Have you ever been to the US?


    wow do you understand what propeganda is?
    America is not owned by its civilians and hasn't for a long time. (once currency stopped been exchanged for gold in my opinion)
    So your point is invalid since its corporations that run the country.

    Have you been to the US, like the view of tent cities?

    Love the idea going around, second WW2 ended all the western world stopped manipulating its citizens into false wars.
    The idea is just far too funny.


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    #254
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Icepick


    Russia Says Yanukovych Asked For Troops

    Putin didn't even bother to come up with something new.


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    #255
    bobcoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭bobcoffee


    "Speaking from the White House earlier, U.S. President Barack Obama said Russia is "on the wrong side of history" "

    says I guy who uses drones to bomb peasants, pricelss


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    #256
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Conas wrote: »
    I wouldn't be as biased as you are though.
    And I wouldn't be as uninformed as you appear to be.

    You like RT. I prefer outlets that tell the truth. Or I'll go see for myself, as I sometimes do.

    Horses for courses, I suppose.


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    #257
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    bobcoffee wrote: »
    wow do you understand what propeganda is?
    America is not owned by its civilians and hasn't for a long time. (once currency stopped been exchanged for gold in my opinion)
    So your point is invalid since its corporations that run the country.

    Have you been to the US, like the view of tent cities?

    Love the idea going around, second WW2 ended all the western world stopped manipulating its citizens into false wars.
    The idea is just far too funny.

    Have you not told us what you want the EU to do to resolve this crisis yet?

    You spout some amount of anti-west rhetoric.

    However, its all heat & no light.


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    #258
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Moot point as Germany would not be fighting alone.
    Though Merkel has been the busiest of the EU leaders is seems.
    She has much more resolve than Cameron.

    bigger balls as well :D


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    #259
    TheHappyChappy
    Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭TheHappyChappy


    ZeroThreat wrote: »
    Germany frankly doesn't have to balls to mobilise troops even if it were a defensive action.

    Germany don't have to mobilize troops.

    Germany will lead agenda & europe will follow - us will talk but not walk

    It's economics that will dictate end game

    specifically Rus/Ger econ. check out euro stats


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    #260
    Conas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Conas


    bobcoffee wrote: »
    "Speaking from the White House earlier, U.S. President Barack Obama said Russia is "on the wrong side of history" "

    says I guy who uses drones to bomb peasants, pricelss

    I don't know how he can say Russia has violated International Law too, I mean I feel embarassed for him that he'd have the nerve to say that to Russia. He's clueless, why doesn't he enquire about what Andrea Nuland was up to in Ukraine. People could rob Obama left, right and centre, and he'd wouldn't have a clue what was happening.


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    #261
    Conas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Conas


    TheHappyChappy wrote: »
    Germany don't have to mobilize troops.

    Germany will lead agenda & europe will follow - us will talk but not walk

    It's economics that will dictate end game

    specifically Rus/Ger econ. check out euro stats

    Germany isn't going to do anything, about anything, all this talk is just talk. It'll all end just as quickly as it began, wait and you'll see.


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    #262
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Conas wrote: »
    I don't know how he can say Russia has violated International Law too, I mean I feel embarassed for him that he'd have the nerve to say that to Russia. He's clueless, why doesn't he enquire about what Andrea Nuland was up to in Ukraine. People could rob Obama left, right and centre, and he'd wouldn't have a clue what was happening.
    Invading other countries violates international law.


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    #263
    czx
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Conas wrote: »
    Germany isn't going to do anything, about anything, all this talk is just talk. It'll all end just as quickly as it began, wait and you'll see.

    Love how the West is impotent but also behind all that's going on
    Which is it?


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    #264
    Conas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Conas


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Invading other countries violates international law.

    I know, like the USA invaded Iraq illegally under International Law, and stole billions in Iraqi oil, and violated the Geneva Convention by torturing people. America is the last country that can accuse Russia of violating International Law with all due respect.


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    #265
    bobcoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭bobcoffee


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Invading other countries violates international law.

    seems a few like to quote lines and not read above to see what the person is talking about.

    He as in Obama, telling anyone else that they are violating international law is what is wrong.
    Not Russia is good people who should invade anywhere they like.


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    #266
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Conas wrote: »
    I know, like the USA invaded Iraq illegally under International Law, and stole billions in Iraqi oil, and violated the Geneva Convention by torturing people. America is the last country that can accuse Russia of violating International Law with all due respect.
    All utterly irrelevant to the fact Russia is breaking international law and quite frankly, to this thread.


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    #267
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Invading other countries violates international law.
    Ironically, I'm doing such a course at the moment. So you are mostly right. In that only under UN Charter (Security Council) or a clear case of self-defence is that allowed.
    However, there is a doctrine that was developed post Rwanda, known as right to protect. Essentially it allows neighbouring or concerned series of countries to step in if they believe human rights are being violated at the scale that constitutes genocide. This was a key doctrine in Libya. But - compounding life's ironies - it was Russia/China who have always argued against any broad interpretation of such, whilst the US/EU have more accepting of it.


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    #268
    Conas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Conas


    czx wrote: »
    Love how the West is impotent but also behind all that's going on
    Which is it?

    So what do you think Obama should do. Take military action against Russia because of Crimea? Yeah right, don't worry once Putin has Crimea he'll be happy, because of the bases there. He'll throw the rest of the bankrupt Ukraine, to the EU and US to bail them out of billions.


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    #269
    czx
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Conas wrote: »
    So what do you think Obama should do. Take military action against Russia because of Crimea? Yeah right, don't worry once Putin has Crimea he'll be happy, because of the bases there. He'll throw the rest of the bankrupt Ukraine, to the EU and US to bail them out of billions.

    What a nice guy, that Putin


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    #270
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Manach wrote: »
    Ironically, I'm doing such a course at the moment. So you are mostly right. In that only under UN Charter (Security Council) or a clear case of self-defence is that allowed.
    However, there is a doctrine that was developed post Rwanda, known as right to protect. Essentially it allows neighbouring or concerned series of countries to step in if they believe human rights are being violated at the scale that constitutes genocide. This was a key doctrine in Libya. But - compounding life's ironies - it was Russia/China who have always argued against any broad interpretation of such, whilst the US/EU have more accepting of it.
    Do they need evidence of this before they invade or can they invade now give evidence later.


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    #271
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Conas wrote: »
    So what do you think Obama should do. Take military action against Russia because of Crimea? Yeah right, don't worry once Putin has Crimea he'll be happy, because of the bases there. He'll throw the rest of the bankrupt Ukraine, to the EU and US to bail them out of billions.
    Partition is really the best solution at this stage. I would have no problem welcoming Western Ukraine into the EU.


This discussion has been closed.
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