Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

mmmcake

Who shot down MH17? 30 Million Dollar reward for information

http://www.wifka.de/who-shot-down-mh17-30-million-dollars-reward-for-information.html

Could be interesting, $30 million reward might get someone to talk.

gandalf

conditioned games wrote: »

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/the-russian-empire-strikes-back

Another article saying how the bullying USA wont get their way this time. I like how the US didn’t impose sanctions on Russian nuclear fuel, which just happens to power 10% of all American homes.

Who are they ?

Also from your stance you are endorsing the "Bullying" Russians getting away with their direct interference in a neighbouring sovereign state. Isn't that a little bit hypocritical?

InTheTrees

conditioned games wrote: »

Another article saying how the bullying USA wont get their way this time.

Are you happy that russia has invaded ukraine then?

Gatling

mmmcake wrote: »

Who shot down MH17? 30 Million Dollar reward for information

http://www.wifka.de/who-shot-down-mh17-30-million-dollars-reward-for-information.html

Could be interesting, $30 million reward might get someone to talk.

Who do I apply to claim

Elmer Blooker

gandalf wrote: »

Also from your stance you are endorsing the "Bullying" Russians getting away with their direct interference in a neighbouring sovereign state. Isn't that a little bit hypocritical?

From Oxford dictionary, meaning of "sovereign"

(Of a nation or its affairs) acting or done independently and without outside interference:
a sovereign, democratic republic

The government in Kiev was installed in a US orchestrated coup ("Yats" and **** the EU)
If that isn't "outside interference" then I don't know what is!

gandalf

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

From Oxford dictionary, meaning of "sovereign"

The government in Kiev was installed in a US orchestrated coup ("Yats" and **** the EU)
If that isn't "outside interference" then I don't know what is!

In your opinion (and the Kremlins!).

InTheTrees

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The government in Kiev was installed in a US orchestrated coup

And we all know by now your definition of a "US orchestrated coup".

They wanted mcdonalds, kentucky fried chicken, and more tv channels.

I understand your blind hatred of the spread of US plastic "culture" but you know eventually russia and the old communist countries are going to have to come up wth an alternative instead of just threatening and invading its neighbours who want a better life. They already poisoned, and had imprisioned a few of the last ukrainian politicians who tried to stand up to russian bullying.

Censorship and oppression by putin and his cronies in russia doesnt make for a very good example of a society anyone aspires to.

Elmer Blooker

gandalf wrote: »

In your opinion (and the Kremlins!).

No. The whole world's opinion.

Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in... he's going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it's just not going to work.

Tyahnybok is the leader of the extreme right Svoboda Party as I'm sure you're aware.

gandalf

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

No. The whole world's opinion.

Really please quote these sources. Show it is the whole worlds opinion.

LOL Nuland again, is that the proof. Please try harder.

conditioned games

mmmcake wrote: »

Who shot down MH17? 30 Million Dollar reward for information


Could be interesting, $30 million reward might get someone to talk.

Don’t know who shot down the MH17 plane, could be anyone. But what is known there is a conflict in that region and Planes are taking a risk flying over that area. It could easily have been shot down by west Ukrainians with US weapons or east Ukrainians with Russian weapons.

West Ukraine are entitled to vote for independence without been attacked. Half of the country voted for a President who favored closer ties to the Eurasian union while the other half want to be in Europe. Let them vote for independence and stop trying to force them to shut up.

Russia sent weapons and some soldiers to help the Russian speaking Ukrainians as they were been attacked by west Ukraine with US weapons. Russia has stood up to help those under attack because 2 regions in east Ukraine voted to be separate.

Since this conflict began the US and its allies have portrayed Russia as the aggressor and people such as yourself have bought into the story just like the conflict in Iraq and Libya. That is where we are at.

Elmer Blooker

gandalf wrote: »

Really please quote these sources. Show it is the whole worlds opinion.

LOL Nuland again, is that the proof. Please try harder.

I'm speechless! Are you joking? You're actually asking me for proof? Every dog on the street knows!!
(from when the Guardian was still a reasonably good paper)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/07/angela-merkel-victoria-nuland-eu-unacceptable

The embarrassing tape surfaced with Russian subtitles. "It was pretty impressive tradecraft. [The] audio quality was very good," Nuland said on Friday.

gandalf

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I'm speechless! Are you joking? You're actually asking me for proof? Every dog on the street knows!!
(from when the Guardian was still a reasonably good paper)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/07/angela-merkel-victoria-nuland-eu-unacceptable

How is that proof that "The government in Kiev was installed in a US orchestrated coup".

It's proof that Nuland is a eejit and should watch what she says on the phone and that she doesn't particularly like the EU.

So come on show us how that proves that the US orchestrated a coup?

Lemming

Globalresarch.ca and informationclearinghouse are both Russian-financed and nothing more than Kremlin broadcasting tools. They are to be taken slightly less seriously than Fox News.

gandalf

OK so no real proof from conditioned games. Let's see how Elmer does, although I am not holding out any hopes for an improvement beyond sites of dubious source and outright conspiracy theory sites.

conditioned games

gandalf wrote: »

OK so no real proof from conditioned games. Let's see how Elmer does, although I am not holding out any hopes for an improvement beyond sites of dubious source and outright conspiracy theory sites.

They are actually independent organisations that uncover the truth. The truth has not what you have been fed in the western media so only option left is to say its a conspiricy. I dont expect you to see reality as western brain washing is very good.


They tell us we are experiencing growth, unemployment is down, consumer spending is up and the next few years it is going to get better. Yet reality is the recovery they talk about is 100 per cent fake and america is doing what it always does and thats looking after itself and this time ukraine is their toy

Gatling

Can anyone show me these US weapon's used to attack eastern Ukraine.

Can they prove there US supplied

pablomakaveli

conditioned games wrote: »

They are actually independent organisations that uncover the truth. The truth has not what you have been fed in the western media so only option left is to say its a conspiricy. I dont expect you to see reality as western brain washing is very good.


They tell us we are experiencing growth, unemployment is down, consumer spending is up and the next few years it is going to get better. Yet reality is the recovery they talk about is 100 per cent fake and america is doing what it always does and thats looking after itself and this time ukraine is their toy

Why should we accept their "truth"? Why are they less likely to be biased than Western sources?

Elmer Blooker

gandalf wrote: »

OK so no real proof from conditioned games. Let's see how Elmer does, although I am not holding out any hopes for an improvement beyond sites of dubious source and outright conspiracy theory sites.

if you think she was in Kiev doing a bit of sight seeing then good for you but some of us know how the world operates.

http://syrianfreepress.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/131211-ukraine-nuland-5a.jpg

BoJack Horseman

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

if you think she was in Kiev doing a bit of sight seeing then good for you but some of us know how the world operates.

Women visits Ukraine.
Says naughty word about EU.
....
Russia invades & annexes neighbour.

Its next-level-bonkers that you consider these equivalent.

I'd pity you if you didn't seem so chuffed with yourself.

conditioned games

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Why should we accept their "truth"? Why are they less likely to be biased than Western sources?

US sources are biased because their foreign policy is to protect their petrodollar. Russia has been a thorn for them with Iran and syria. Ukraine has been used by the US to punish russia and US allies go along with the bully. What u c in the western media is not the full picture.

Count Dooku

gandalf wrote: »

Things have moved on a lot since April.



http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/weapons-used-by-ukraines-rebels-point-toward-russian-origins/504235.html

Only in faking stories, published later in Finnish newspapers

In reality Kiev sent truck full of MANPAD's directly to Slavyansk when everything was only beginning in April
http://www.veooz.com/photos/BH4e~nG.html

Gatling

Count Dooku wrote: »

Only in faking stories, published later in Finnish newspapers

In reality Kiev sent truck full of MANPAD's directly to Slavyansk when everything was only beginning in April
http://www.veooz.com/photos/BH4e~nG.html

Manpads are not shipped in wooden crates there sensitive to damp and wet conditions ,
If you also look further down you'll find russian manpads siezed in Ukraine

realweirdo

So much of Eastern Ukraine has semi-autonomy now and can do as it likes. Western Ukraine is free to join the EU. Problem solved it seems. Putin has got his buffer zone. A puppet regime in the east where democracy and free speech is ever so gradually stamped out as it currently is in Crimea.

pablomakaveli

conditioned games wrote: »

US sources are biased because their foreign policy is to protect their petrodollar. Russia has been a thorn for them with Iran and syria. Ukraine has been used by the US to punish russia and US allies go along with the bully. What u c in the western media is not the full picture.

I'd trust the Western media a lot more than the Russian media which is near the bottom in press freedom ratings.

http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php

Black Swan

conditioned games wrote: »

http://www.storyleak.com/ukraine-deception-useu-directed-coup-detat-exposes/

conditioned games wrote: »

May as well throw up some more of them. Some people can be blind to the obvious.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/22758-meet-the-americans-who-put-together-the-coup-in-kiev

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-russias-response-to-a-us-eu-sponsored-coup-detat-violation-of-international-law/5371621

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/ron-paul-crimea-russia-sanctions-act-of-war

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/05/chronology-of-the-ukrainian-coup/

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/03/01/352743/ukraine-saw-westernbacked-coup/

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37790.htm

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InTheTrees

conditioned games wrote: »

US sources are biased because their foreign policy is to protect their petrodollar.

Thats is such complete nonsense.

"US sources are biased because..."

You equate "US Sources" with Fox News dont you?

Your definition of "US Sources" is the right wing corporate propaganda like Fox and you're completely ignoring all the others.

The US isnt like russia where there's censorship and control. There are more voices in the "US media" than fox news.

InTheTrees

conditioned games wrote: »

What u c in the western media is not the full picture.

Ah right.

Because all us putin-haters are out here lapping up the US/Rupert Murdoch controlled right wing corporate media like the mindless drones we obviously are, right?

InTheTrees

conditioned games wrote: »

US sources are biased because their foreign policy is to protect their petrodollar.

Mother Jones would love that.

:pac: :pac: :pac: :pac:

gandalf

So basically we have no proof of US supplied weapons being used in the Ukraine by Government forces. What we have are a picture from Syria and a picture and article from Libya (which incidently shows Russia SA-7 MANPADS).

So absolutely nothing about the topic at hand. So we can chalk that up as debunked totally.

Next we have the claims of a coup in Kiev. A phone call released by Russian Intelligence is the pillar of this evidence. Lets invert this. If US Intelligence released a phone call where Sergey Lavrov was saying similar things people would quite rightly laugh it off rather than put 1 + 1 together and get 100 and a conspiracy theory about regime change. As far as I am concerned that one is a non runner unless there is other evidence that comes to light.

gandalf

Of course if you are in Russia don't ask any questions about service mens deaths in or near Ukraine.

A BBC team has been attacked in the southern Russian city of Astrakhan.

We had gone to investigate reports of Russian servicemen being killed near the border with Ukraine.

As we left a cafe and approached our car, we were confronted and attacked by at least three aggressive individuals.

Using physical violence the men grabbed our camera, smashed it on the road, and then escaped with it in a getaway car. During the scuffle the BBC cameraman was knocked to the ground and beaten.

The team is now safe and back in Moscow.

Following the attack, we spent more than four hours being questioned in a local police station.

We discovered later that while we were there, back in the car some of our recording equipment had been tampered with.

The hard drive of the main computer as well as several memory cards with video material had been wiped clean.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29249642

Probably the most dangerous profession in Russia is that of a investigative journalist.