Ukraine on the brink of civil war. Mod Warning in OP.

Count Dooku

Gatling wrote: »

What efforts were they exactly

Deliberate killing civilians and destruction of infrastructure

Gatling

Count Dooku wrote: »

Deliberate killing civilians and destruction of infrastructure

Was this before or after the Russian military incursions in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

Rebels attacking Donetsk airport is that not deliberate destruction of infrastructure and the attacks on ports too

Count Dooku

Gatling wrote: »

Was this before or after the Russian military incursions in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

Russian invasion to Crimea saved a lot of lives, by protecting them from Ukrainian Nazi in power and Russian invasion to eastern Ukraine is bedtime story like nuclear bomb used by Russia in Luhansk airport

Gatling wrote: »

Rebels attacking Donetsk airport is that not deliberate destruction of infrastructure and the attacks on ports too

There is no civilians in Donetsk airport, which been used by Ukrainian army for months to shell Donetsk and kill civilians there

Gatling

Count Dooku wrote: »

Russian invasion to Crimea saved a lot of lives, by protecting them from Ukrainian Nazi in power and Russian invasion to eastern Ukraine is bedtime story like nuclear bomb used by Russia in Luhansk airport



There is no civilians in Donetsk airport, which been used by Ukrainian army for months to shell Donetsk and kill civilians there

Sooooooooo to cut a long story short its all nazi propaganda ,
But its ok for russia to sieze parts of soverign states so long as you claim its protection from nazis in kiev

sin_city

Gatling wrote: »

Sooooooooo to cut a long story short its all nazi propaganda ,
But its ok for russia to sieze parts of soverign states so long as you claim its protection from nazis in kiev

Didn't they vote in Crimea?

I suppose you are in favour of NOT giving Catalonia a vote on independence?

Gatling

sin_city wrote: »

Didn't they vote in Crimea?

I suppose you are in favour of NOT giving Catalonia a vote on independence?

No the majority didn't many were excluded from voting .
And many little little green men and other outside groups voted .

This all stems back 10 years when Ukrainians were promised a referendum that would allow them to ask russian forces to leave the CRIMEA and remove it's ships from the ports .

This is why it was annexed

sin_city

Gatling wrote: »

No the majority didn't many were excluded from voting .
And many little little green men and other outside groups voted .

This all stems back 10 years when Ukrainians were promised a referendum that would allow them to ask russian forces to leave the CRIMEA and remove it's ships for the port .

This is why it was annexed

Did you observe the green men yourself?

Fair play.

Crimea was part of Russia up until a few decades ago and it voted to go back with Russia....next.

Gatling

sin_city wrote: »

Did you observe the green men yourself?

Fair play.

Crimea was part of Russia up until a few decades ago and it voted to go back with Russia....next.

Actually it wasn't it was swapped with land from Ukraine going to russia

Do you need a history lesson

Count Dooku

Gatling wrote: »

No the majority didn't many were excluded from voting .

Really?

Gatling wrote: »

Actually it wasn't it was swapped with land from Ukraine going to russia

Do you need a history lesson

Any proof, because I couldn't find anything about land transferred from Ukraine to Russia after WWII?

Gatling

Count Dooku wrote: »

Really?


Any proof, because I couldn't find anything about land transferred from Ukraine to Russia after WWII?

It's really not difficult

Count Dooku

Gatling wrote: »

It's really not difficult

Then show us

Gatling

sin_city wrote: »

I want "

Thats not going to get you very far will it


Ive posted it several times already

sin_city

Gatling wrote: »

Incorrect

Sorry, correct

Gatling

Rebels still trying to retake donesk airport with nightly attacks on Ukrainian forces .despite previously agreeing to a cease fire .

Germany are now planning to send peace keeping troops including deploying paratroopers to Ukraine .

Count Dooku

Gatling wrote: »

Thats not going to get you very far will it


Ive posted it several times already

Sorry, but I couldn't find anything,
Just in case if it was popular in Ukraine myth about Taganrog exchanged for Crimea, then I have to disappoint you
http://www.taganrogcity.com/pr_refutation_false_statement_by_blogger_alexander_gorobets.html

Elmer Blooker

I just thought I'd post a Ukraine update for all you democrats out there. There seems to be a news blackout here in the free west as Ukraine's transition from Russian domination to western style democracy continues to go smoothly.
This is what happens to politicians in Ukraine who are "uncooperative"
This politician was accused of "cooperating" with the Party of Regions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QelNxUV_4HU

In Nazi Germany in the 1930s it all started with Jews being treated like this - as I said Ukraine's transition to democracy continues to go smoothly.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I just thought I'd post a Ukraine update for all you democrats out there. There seems to be a news blackout here in the free west as Ukraine's transition from Russian domination to western style democracy continues to go smoothly.
This is what happens to politicians in Ukraine who are "uncooperative"
This politician was accused of "cooperating" with the Party of Regions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QelNxUV_4HU

In Nazi Germany in the 1930s it all started with Jews being treated like this - as I said Ukraine's transition to democracy continues to go smoothly.

You do realise that happend ages ago ,

And there's no media blackout either

Elmer Blooker

September 26th ages ago?
Its quite disturbing to see masked men in paramilitary uniforms on the streets of a European country in the 21st century and even more disturbing that this is being backed by the EU, (especially Germany with their history)
There is a media blackout/censorship, even Irish Times and Guardian readers who like to think they know whats going on know nothing about these west backed gangs in Ukraine! I speak to people I know in the pub who I consider intelligent, Irish Times readers as I've said, and they've fallen for the whole Hollywood Russians-are-the-bad-guys bull****. I guess Goebbels got it right!
http://99getsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/joseph_goebbels_big_lie_propaganda_msm.jpg

Gatling

In 30 seconds I found 100+ news reports on ukraine from inside Ukraine and by multiple news outlets .

Interesting enough from Germany there sending drones and armed units to protect the said drones .
Looks like Germany are taking the lead now in Ukraine .
With troops and paratroopers being readied to be deployed

Gatling

Looks like russia have invaded eastern Ukraine today with tanks,heavy artillery and troops openly crossed the russian border ,
After the russian government "respected the wishes of peoples elections"
Despite an ageed ceasefire rebels having attacked Ukrainian military positions on a daily basis since the agreeement came into force weeks ago ,

Count Dooku

Gatling wrote: »

Looks like russia have invaded eastern Ukraine today with tanks,heavy artillery and troops openly crossed the russian border ,
After the russian government "respected the wishes of peoples elections"
Despite an ageed ceasefire rebels having attacked Ukrainian military positions on a daily basis since the agreeement came into force weeks ago ,

According to Ukraine Today, for last two months Russia is invading to Ukraine at least twice per day.
Last time Kiev claimed that Russia used nukes in Luhansk and still no proof have been provided

BoJack Horseman

I'm guessing it being mid-term, more troops are taking a holiday?

Gatling

Count Dooku wrote: »

According to Ukraine Today, for last two months Russia is invading to Ukraine at least twice per day.
Last time Kiev claimed that Russia used nukes in Luhansk and still no proof have been provided

Lolz

robindch

The following discussion is a fairly good summary of the Kremlin's media policy - the object is less to convince people that one side or the other is right and more to produce a cloud of irrelevant noise (lies, misinformation, whataboutery, deceitful debate, conspiracy theorizing, aggressive reaction to specific topics, scatter-gunning etc, etc) which serves to confuse + demoralize people to the point of disengagement - sponsored, planned, widescale дезинформация/disinformation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwZZFuiiQ2I

And here's an investigation by The Interpreter into Ireland's Brian|Brian McDonald|MacDonald:

http://www.interpretermag.com/life-of-bryan-how-an-rt-columnist-tries-to-influence-the-debate-on-russia-and-ukraine/

Gatling

That's a great piece robindch

Count Dooku

robindch wrote: »

The following discussion is a fairly good summary of the Kremlin's media policy - the object is less to convince people that one side or the other is right and more to produce a cloud of irrelevant noise (lies, misinformation, whataboutery, deceitful debate, conspiracy theorizing, aggressive reaction to specific topics, scatter-gunning etc, etc) which serves to confuse + demoralize people to the point of disengagement - sponsored, planned, widescale дезинформация/disinformation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwZZFuiiQ2I

And here's an investigation by The Interpreter into Ireland's Brian|Brian McDonald|MacDonald:

http://www.interpretermag.com/life-of-bryan-how-an-rt-columnist-tries-to-influence-the-debate-on-russia-and-ukraine/

i.e. shoot the messenger, because hiding crimes of pro-Kiev supporters doesn't work well

Dannyboy83

http://trueeconomics.blogspot.ie/2014/11/7112014-russian-ruble-rough-days-ahead.html



Looks like the combined US/Saudi efforts are working.

Russian Leaders have historically been able to withstand pretty much anything - except oil price collapses.

Gatling

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

http://trueeconomics.blogspot.ie/2014/11/7112014-russian-ruble-rough-days-ahead.html



Looks like the combined US/Saudi efforts are working.

Russian Leaders have historically been able to withstand pretty much anything - except oil price collapses.

It will be interesting to see how long putin keeps this crap up when his very rich friends start feeling the pinch and the economy totally collapses

Count Dooku

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

http://trueeconomics.blogspot.ie/2014/11/7112014-russian-ruble-rough-days-ahead.html



Looks like the combined US/Saudi efforts are working.

Russian Leaders have historically been able to withstand pretty much anything - except oil price collapses.

More likely that it is Saudi Arabia vs USA in order to damage shale oil production and in long term it will be USA who will lose
Shale Drillers Idle Rigs From Texas to Utah Amid Oil Rout

The slide threatens to curb a production boom in U.S. shale formations that has helped bring prices at the pump below $3 a gallon for the first time since 2010 and shrink the nation’s dependence on foreign oil imports.

Drillers Cut Expansion Plans as Oil Prices Drop

“We’re in a battle with Saudi Arabia in regard to market share,” Pioneer Chief Executive Scott Sheffield told investors Wednesday. The Irving, Texas, company hasn’t announced its drilling plans for next year, but Mr. Sheffield said they would hinge on where oil prices stand in the next few months

SeanW

Count Dooku wrote: »

i.e. shoot the messenger, because hiding crimes of pro-Kiev supporters doesn't work well

Hah. I'm fairly sure that any war crimes committed by Ukranians in the defense of their country are in the ha-penny place compared to those of the Russians. And exaggerated/fabricated by the Kremlin.