Best breed of maternal sheep ?

Conmaicne Mara

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Thanks con. I know of that program but from what I have heard off a few guys who would be well respected in the area, there is very little quality control involved. Like no sheep were being turned away for lacking the quality required, which when you consider the variable quality in mayo ewes doesnt really make sense. I know of some who are now in it that were running lanark rams a few years ago.

I was in it the first year, but dropped out this year. Mostly because it benefits the ram producers, I couldn't get to the special sale in Ballinrobe, and the extra paperwork. With my numbers then it didn't allow me any flexibility.

The selection process, well, I selected 20 ewes that didn't have outside breed influences in them. Two other members came and checked, then tagged the sheep, as well as the ram.

The idea then for the lambs of those ewes was to randomly select one lamb and DNA test him, as all the rams were DNA tested too. I didn't do my lamb returns so didn't get to that stage.

At the initial info meeting I felt there was merit to it. The thinking was to prevent or at the least lessen inbreeding and keep a number of sheep, pure I suppose you could say. I think they could have included more and brought the idea along farther but they didn't want to flood people with too much info/work at the beginning.

Now, I suppose, as with anything else, the success of it will depend on two things. The honesty of the people involved and a belt and braces approach to checks and balances for the flocks involved.

MayoAreMagic

The idea definately has merit Con, I fully agree. It is the proper way to go. But it needs to be enforced correctly to maximise the outcome. The more they take the soft option of letting everyone have their say, the longer it will take to get it right. As you know yourself, there might be 5 fellas with 5 different ideas about what makes a good mountain ewe - they cant all be right... If you look at lanarks, or even texels, suffolks etc, there is a set type to the ewes and they look the same. Really, that is the direction we need to go in.

Wooly Admirer

If the breed is to be brought in the right direction the only way to it is to record the parentage, build the family tree and when a good line shows up - use it for the benefit of the entire breed. Without these kind of records, progress will be almost impossible.

Lano Lynn

surely one of the advantages blackfaces have is that you are not constrained by the ridgity of a 'pedigree' you can draw on a much greater gene pool and adapt your sheep to suit your specific conditions.?
while a 'flock book' has merits it does not in itself lead to breed improvement.

bratnuk

We find the belclare x horny a very hardy mother and produce good lambs from a Suffolk ram

Conmaicne Mara

Green farmer wrote: »

On a separate topic, any one running Cheviots on a lowland farm, for a maternal breed, Which type make the best ewes ?

I've flirted shamelessly and heavily with going all Cheviot here but that idea is on the wane now. I would be looking in the direction of Lairg type NCC for my hill farm.

As to what's the best breed, well for me it's the blackface because that's what'll produce and rear lambs here.

Thomas Drennan

I bought 12 zwarble x texel cross ewe lambs put them to a blue texel lamb count is a bit low but if their anything like the lambs I had out of 2 zwarble x texel ewe lambs last year I'm into serious lambs

Kevhog1988

Thomas Drennan wrote: »

I bought 12 zwarble x texel cross ewe lambs put them to a blue texel lamb count is a bit low but if their anything like the lambs I had out of 2 zwarble x texel ewe lambs last year I'm into serious lambs

The zwarbtles good mothers??

wrangler

Thomas Drennan wrote: »

I bought 12 zwarble x texel cross ewe lambs put them to a blue texel lamb count is a bit low but if their anything like the lambs I had out of 2 zwarble x texel ewe lambs last year I'm into serious lambs

You really need to be near 2lambs per ewe......an extra .25 lamb per ewe is worth €25, the difference between a u grade lamb and an E grade is €2
Get the lambs per ewe up first

charolais0153

wrangler wrote: »

You really need to be near 2lambs per ewe......an extra .25 lamb per ewe is worth €25, the difference between a u grade lamb and an E grade is €2
Get the lambs per ewe up first

Have never heard of e grades here. Seem more common in england but i suppose theres more beltex out there also

Lambman

Never had zwartables but heard there a real milky ewe and good till cross off for keeping replacements.... know a few purebred breeders keeping them for weaning lambs onto aswell 3 lambs supposed till be no bother till them from what I heard? Can someone here explain till me the main difference in rouge ewes and charrlois ewes? Both similar looking

Ard_MC

Lambman wrote: »

Never had zwartables but heard there a real milky ewe and good till cross off for keeping replacements.... know a few purebred breeders keeping them for weaning lambs onto aswell 3 lambs supposed till be no bother till them from what I heard? Can someone here explain till me the main difference in rouge ewes and charrlois ewes? Both similar looking[/quote

I would think the Rouge would be a bit more maternal..but that's only a guess.

wrangler

Ard_MC wrote: »

Lambman wrote: »

Never had zwartables but heard there a real milky ewe and good till cross off for keeping replacements.... know a few purebred breeders keeping them for weaning lambs onto aswell 3 lambs supposed till be no bother till them from what I heard? Can someone here explain till me the main difference in rouge ewes and charrlois ewes? Both similar looking[/quote

I would think the Rouge would be a bit more maternal..but that's only a guess.

yea, More milk but a bit wild

Lambman

Just asking as I see a few lads up here using roubex rams (purebred rouge ewe crossed with beltex ram) and was wondering why they don't just use a charrlois ewe crossed with beltex ram? You'd imagine they wouldn't be keeping replacements off either mix?

Dickie10

how would a blue leicester go on suffolk and lynn? or suffolk x and llynn cross? my llyn have become a bit small, perfect for producing early may and june lambs off HD ram but some of the hoggets and lambing in april have had small lambs, you dont get into 21 kg now in winter.

charolais0153

Dickie10 wrote: »

how would a blue leicester go on suffolk and lynn? or suffolk x and llynn cross? my llyn have become a bit small, perfect for producing early may and june lambs off HD ram but some of the hoggets and lambing in april have had small lambs, you dont get into 21 kg now in winter.

Texel? Im not a fan of blue leicester.

Dickie10

im definitly not a fan of texel cross ewes.seem to take a lot of interfernce at lambing. but i might try 3/4 llyn 1/4 texel

J.O. Farmer

charolais0153 wrote: »

Texel? Im not a fan of blue leicester.

If I wanted to put length and size into my replacements I'm not sure I'd be going texel. A lot of them look a little short.

The blue leicester can be soft especially with the stringy wool. What about the border Leicester.

charolais0153

Texel ewes here bigger than a lot of suffolks.
This is a hogget that reared a lamb

J.O. Farmer

charolais0153 wrote: »

Texel ewes here bigger than a lot of suffolks.
This is a hogget that reared a lamb

You've obviously got a good line. Maybe it's my imagination but 10 or 15 years ago it was easy to find texels like that but these days I see a lot of texel rams with great width and muscle but short in length and stature. There's still good big rams but to be got but it's harder.

thelegend1979

I have to agree that the majority of texel rams are way too short. Anyone got any view on the milford as a maternal breed ?

Dickie10

are border leicesters still common as maternal?, i would love to get some length into them, would the border leicester have traits such as??

thelegend1979

I have homebred border leicester cross ewes. They have crossed very well with a suffolk. Lambs very hardy and clean behind. Very hard to get a good border leicester ram with plenty of power.

Hard Knocks

thelegend1979 wrote: »

I have to agree that the majority of texel rams are way too short. Anyone got any view on the milford as a maternal breed ?

Had them years ago (Suffolk x Wicklow Cheviot), were a good Ewe & great lambs off them.
The Cheviot use to do a good job on trips (if that makes a difference)

thelegend1979

are they not more of a borris type ewe?? I went to Donegal for some milford ewe hoggets this year. Bought a few. Prices were crazy. Scanned well. Lovely sheep. Time will tell how good they will be. I also bought two milford rams to breed with suffolk border leicester cross ewes. Hoping for real fancy ewe lambs.

White Clover

thelegend1979 wrote: »

are they not more of a borris type ewe?? I went to Donegal for some milford ewe hoggets this year. Bought a few. Prices were crazy. Scanned well. Lovely sheep. Time will tell how good they will be. I also bought two milford rams to breed with suffolk border leicester cross ewes. Hoping for real fancy ewe lambs.

Are the Suffolk x Leicester a good ewe?

thelegend1979

They work well for me. Scanned 2.00 the last 2 years. 1.85 this year. Put some back to a suffolk again but there was too much suffolk in the lambs so i decided to experiment with the milford. Plenty of ewes have reared triplets over the last few years with the right care. Lambs are very hardy too.

Green farmer

Dickie10 wrote: »

my llyn have become a bit small, perfect for producing early may and june lambs off HD ram but some of the hoggets and lambing in april have had small lambs, you dont get into 21 kg now in winter.

I’ve the same sheep here and this is the plan that I’ve come up with to see if it makes any difference,

1. Got myself a better sized, wider Lleyn ram.
2. Cull ewe lambs harder. Didn’t keep any that were under 40kg this year off grass. Didn’t keep anything that needed meal to get to the weight.
3. Plan to introduce a charolais or vendeen next tipping to get some more length into anything that’s 3/4 Lleyn, to help get lambs out the door.
4. Sell off any Lleyn ram lambs at light weights for festivals in summer next year.

razor8

thelegend1979 wrote: »

are they not more of a borris type ewe?? I went to Donegal for some milford ewe hoggets this year. Bought a few. Prices were crazy. Scanned well. Lovely sheep. Time will tell how good they will be. I also bought two milford rams to breed with suffolk border leicester cross ewes. Hoping for real fancy ewe lambs.

Do you not end up with an enormous sheep?

thelegend1979

Ewes not over big so i was hoping of injecting a bit of size into lambs. Lambs lacked a bit of height out of the suffolk.