Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread III

molloyjh

CatFromHue wrote: »

The team looks good.

Yeah can't see anyone having any issue with that squad tbh. There really isn't anything to get worked up over there is there?

former legend

Gerry isn't as accurate as he used to be when he was Kidney's press secretary but if that's right then there won't be too many complaints.

Tough on D'Arcy maybe but a tight call whichever way it goes.

Tox56

former legend wrote: »

Gerry isn't as accurate as he used to be when he was Kidney's press secretary but if that's right then there won't be too many complaints.

Tough on D'Arcy maybe but a tight call whichever way it goes.

I'd guess Marshall starting against Scotland means Darce will start against Wales

former legend

Tox56 wrote: »

I'd guess Marshall starting against Scotland means Darce will start against Wales

I'm not sure. I'd expect D'Arcy to come back in at some stage but I think we might see a fair bit of continuity over the first two games with more of a shake up for round three.

Clearlier

jacothelad wrote: »

I agree BUT.........You've seen Fitz at 15.....:eek::eek::eek:?

There's no doubt that he was a disaster at fullback for Ireland a couple of seasons back. He was having problems in all positions at that stage though in particular with over running passes.

When he first broke into the Leinster team he played a slew of games at fullback and looked very, very good albeit against mostly limited opposition. I'm not sure that I particularly want to see him playing fullback again but I don't think that it's beyond the bounds of possibility that it was general reading of the game that was the problem rather than the position itself.

Just saying that if he did get shoved into fullback for some reason it might not be quite the disaster everybody would fear.

former legend

Clearlier wrote: »

There's no doubt that he was a disaster at fullback for Ireland a couple of seasons back. He was having problems in all positions at that stage though in particular with over running passes.

When he first broke into the Leinster team he played a slew of games at fullback and looked very, very good albeit against mostly limited opposition. I'm not sure that I particularly want to see him playing fullback again but I don't think that it's beyond the bounds of possibility that it was general reading of the game that was the problem rather than the position itself.

Just saying that if he did get shoved into fullback for some reason it might not be quite the disaster everybody would fear.

This, this and this again.

The guy was a superstar at full-back when he was at underage level. Not just in a "that guy will play for Ireland" kind of way, but in a "that guy is going down as an all-time great" kind of way. At full-back.

Now, obviously being a star at underage is no guarantee of anything (cf: Andrew Conway) but when Fitzgerald came on to the pro scene he had first Girvan Dempsey, then Rob Kearney, then Isa Nacewa in his way for the full-back jersey. So he moved to the wing and lo and behold, he was pretty good there too.

Then came the 2011 Six Nations; he had a pretty bad couple of games at full-back having not played there for years and suddenly he's a joke, that he should never be let near the full-back jersey again, etc etc.

It's ill-informed and it's pretty annoying. He has all the skills to play FB, he has more experience there than most and I'd back him to slot in there if needed, more than I would for any of the other back-three players we have.

Rant over. For now.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

former legend wrote: »

This, this and this again.

The guy was a superstar at full-back when he was at underage level. Not just in a "that guy will play for Ireland" kind of way, but in a "that guy is going down as an all-time great" kind of way. At full-back.

Now, obviously being a star at underage is no guarantee of anything (cf: Andrew Conway) but when Fitzgerald came on to the pro scene he had first Girvan Dempsey, then Rob Kearney, then Isa Nacewa in his way for the full-back jersey. So he moved to the wing and lo and behold, he was pretty good there too.

Then came the 2011 Six Nations; he had a pretty bad couple of games at full-back having not played there for years and suddenly he's a joke, that he should never be let near the full-back jersey again, etc etc.

It's ill-informed and it's pretty annoying. He has all the skills to play FB, he has more experience there than most and I'd back him to slot in there if needed, more than I would for any of the other back-three players we have.

Rant over. For now.

So because he was really good there as a 17 year old he would suddenly be grand to slip back in there for Ireland despite having looked at sea in the position the last time he played there at test level?

I just don't think he's a 15 and I'd have D Kearney and Zebo ahead of him for Ireland if push came to shove

CatFromHue

My comment yesterday was that I'd prefer to have Fitz or D. Kearney fill in at 15 ahead of Madigan.

Madigan would only go there if there was an injury, which would be the same for Fitz or D.K.

former legend

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

So because he was really good there as a 17 year old he would suddenly be grand to slip back in there for Ireland despite having looked at sea in the position the last time he played there at test level?

No, I'm saying he has the skills and ability to do it and that one or two bad games does not mean anything. If we based our opinions on small numbers of performances, no-one would ever be good enough for international rugby.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I just don't think he's a 15 and I'd have D Kearney and Zebo ahead of him for Ireland if push came to shove

The Zebo thing is what does my head in most, tbh. Two games in his entire career, one a forward-dominated meat-grinder of a match and the other a canter in the park, is somehow a basis for thinking he's an option at FB at international level.

It's just bad logic, that's all.

Bridge93

who_me wrote: »

I don't doubt his ability/technique. But when the kicking duties are taken from him for the crunch pool ties (regardless of the reason, even if it's to "let him focus on his game" etc.), it leaves a big unknown. I wouldn't want him being brought on in a tight 6N game with a championship/Grand Slam at stake when he hasn't had kicking duties in all the HEC pool games.

IMO, the constant pressure of taking those kicks would make him a better player.

Owen Farrell doesn't always kick for Saracens, should he not be picked at 10 by England? Jackson will be fine and had proven he'll be fine.

Hagz

Bridge93 wrote: »

Owen Farrell doesn't always kick for Saracens, should he not be picked at 10 by England? Jackson will be fine and had proven he'll be fine.

Ah now in fairness Farrell wouldn't be the best comparison. Farrell has already proved that he is a fantastic goal kicker.

shuffol

former legend wrote: »

This, this and this again.

The guy was a superstar at full-back when he was at underage level. Not just in a "that guy will play for Ireland" kind of way, but in a "that guy is going down as an all-time great" kind of way. At full-back.

Now, obviously being a star at underage is no guarantee of anything (cf: Andrew Conway) but when Fitzgerald came on to the pro scene he had first Girvan Dempsey, then Rob Kearney, then Isa Nacewa in his way for the full-back jersey. So he moved to the wing and lo and behold, he was pretty good there too.

Then came the 2011 Six Nations; he had a pretty bad couple of games at full-back having not played there for years and suddenly he's a joke, that he should never be let near the full-back jersey again, etc etc.

It's ill-informed and it's pretty annoying. He has all the skills to play FB, he has more experience there than most and I'd back him to slot in there if needed, more than I would for any of the other back-three players we have.

Rant over. For now.

I dont like fitz at full back myself, he regularly struggles for distance with his kicks and his running game from deep is poor, for some reason the more time he has the worse his decision making. How many times did we see him collect the ball from deep, do that thing where he spins the ball around in his hands a few times and then run head on into a wall of defenders. Now perhaps he'd be better now but you cant disregard his form there from a few years ago, I never noticed his poor form much when he started on the wing.

shaka

former legend wrote: »

No, I'm saying he has the skills and ability to do it and that one or two bad games does not mean anything. If we based our opinions on small numbers of performances, no-one would ever be good enough for international rugby.



The Zebo thing is what does my head in most, tbh. Two games in his entire career, one a forward-dominated meat-grinder of a match and the other a canter in the park, is somehow a basis for thinking he's an option at FB at international level.

It's just bad logic, that's all.

I have some reservations about zebo in a few ways but one place where he is very good is under the high ball , I do think full back might eventually be a good option for him but not just yet. Saying that I wouldn't seeing him get a run there now for Munster

molloyjh

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

So because he was really good there as a 17 year old he would suddenly be grand to slip back in there for Ireland despite having looked at sea in the position the last time he played there at test level?

I just don't think he's a 15 and I'd have D Kearney and Zebo ahead of him for Ireland if push came to shove

Tbh I'd be slow to pass judgement on him. He came back from injury in January 2011 and had practically no time to find any form before being launched into Test level rugby in a position he'd never played in at that level. It was never, ever going to end well. It just couldn't.

I'd agree he'd be down the list, but I do think peoples opinions of him at FB have been coloured by a situation where he was never going to be able to excel.

shuffol wrote: »

I dont like fitz at full back myself, he regularly struggles for distance with his kicks and his running game from deep is poor, for some reason the more time he has the worse his decision making. How many times did we see him collect the ball from deep, do that thing where he spins the ball around in his hands a few times and then run head on into a wall of defenders. Now perhaps he'd be better now but you cant disregard his form there from a few years ago, I never noticed his poor form much when he started on the wing.

Saracens in January 2011. The game he threw the intercept for Strettles(?) try. Right before his appearances at FB for Ireland. He wasn't in a good place at the time at all, be that at wing or FB, hence I wouldn't be using anything in that period to judge the guy.

irishbucsfan

Interesting how when Paul O'Connell was asked who Ireland's biggest hitter was he immediately answered Stephen Ferris, I found that surprising given how long he's been out and also given it was at the 6 Nations launch! God I wish we had him back.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Interesting how when Paul O'Connell was asked who Ireland's biggest hitter was he immediately answered Stephen Ferris, I found that surprising given how long he's been out and also given it was at the 6 Nations launch! God I wish we had him back.

If we had Ferris and O'Brien togging out in the same back line it would be amazing.

Eoin

I'd probably keep them in the pack!

Tox56

Eoin wrote: »

I'd probably keep them in the pack!

Nonsense, natural successors to BOD and Darce in the centre

Deano7788

Tox56 wrote: »

Nonsense, natural successors to BOD and Darce in the centre

I'm suddenly reminded of Mighty Ducks.

awec

I meant back row.

Though a Ferris O'Brien 12 and 13 partnership would be a pretty impenetrable channel for the opposition.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Interesting how when Paul O'Connell was asked who Ireland's biggest hitter was he immediately answered Stephen Ferris, I found that surprising given how long he's been out and also given it was at the 6 Nations launch! God I wish we had him back.

Was just looking this up, in an interview in 2009 Les Kiss said that in his 20 years of coaching he has only met one player who hits harder than Ferris and that was Wycliff Palu.

danthefan

awec wrote: »

Was just looking this up, in an interview in 2009 Les Kiss said that in his 20 years of coaching he has only met one player who hits harder than Ferris and that was Wycliff Palu.

Can remember Palu absolutely smashing Rob Kearney a few seasons back, think he got (quite unfairly) binned for his troubles.

awec

From the same interview, Ferris said:

“I love a big hit myself,” he said. “Me and Neil Best. We go out there and try and hurt boys, really, so they won’t run back at us. Putting a big hit on somebody, putting them down and looking into his eyes. There’s nothing better.”

That looking into his eyes bit - :pac:

Really hope this guy gets back to playing for Ireland.

rrpc

awec wrote: »

From the same interview, Ferris said:

“I love a big hit myself,” he said. “Me and Neil Best. We go out there and try and hurt boys, really, so they won’t run back at us. Putting a big hit on somebody, putting them down and looking into his eyes. There’s nothing better.”

That looking into his eyes bit - :pac:

Really hope this guy gets back to playing for Ireland.

You get the feeling that if Ferris hadn't actually taken up rugby, he might be behind bars by now.

Joking of course

who_me

rrpc wrote: »

You get the feeling that if Ferris hadn't actually taken up rugby, he might be behind bars by now.

Joking of course

I think he almost admitted as much himself, in previous interviews.

Kayless

Any word on Ferris?

Gidea

Kayless wrote: »

Any word on Ferris?

He tweeted last week that he packed his boots for training for the first time in ages, so some progress at least.

mystic86

awec wrote: »

If we had Ferris and O'Brien togging out in the same back line it would be amazing.

Last time that happened was Paddy's day 2012, damn long time! Almost 2 years!
They played together in 4 of the 5 games in that campaign.

Also, prior to the games against Australia and New Zealand in November, Brian O'Driscoll and Paul O'Connell did not play together for Ireland since the WC Quarter Final defeat to Wales on 8th October 2011 - over 2 years!

In fact that quarter final is the last time all 4 of those players played for us at the same time. What a lineup we had that day:

Rob Kearney
Tommy Bowe
Brian O'Driscoll
Gordon D'Arcy
Keith Earls
Ronan O'Gara
Conor Murray
Cian Healy
Rory Best
Mike Ross
Donncha O'Callaghan
Paul O'Connell
Steve Ferris
Sean O'Brien
Jamie Heaslip

Obviously I would have preferred 1 change in that lineup...

I think Wales caught us on the hop that day, what an awful shame.

former legend

mystic86 wrote: »

Last time that happened was Paddy's day 2012, damn long time! Almost 2 years!
They played together in 4 of the 5 games in that campaign.

Also, prior to the games against Australia and New Zealand in November, Brian O'Driscoll and Paul O'Connell did not play together for Ireland since the WC Quarter Final defeat to Wales on 8th October 2011 - over 2 years!

In fact that quarter final is the last time all 4 of those players played for us at the same time. What a lineup we had that day:

Rob Kearney
Tommy Bowe
Brian O'Driscoll
Gordon D'Arcy
Keith Earls
Ronan O'Gara
Conor Murray
Cian Healy
Rory Best
Mike Ross
Donncha O'Callaghan
Paul O'Connell
Steve Ferris
Sean O'Brien
Jamie Heaslip

Obviously I would have preferred 1 change in that lineup...

I think Wales caught us on the hop that day, what an awful shame.

Great post, except for the very last line. Wales didn't catch us on the hop at all; they realised we were completely one-dimensional in our tactics and set out to neuter us completely. Where we fell down was our inability to do anything about it in response.

gaius c

awec wrote: »

If we had Ferris and O'Brien togging out in the same back line it would be amazing.

Great players individually but they were part of a horribly balanced backrow for Ireland.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

gaius c wrote: »

Great players individually but they were part of a horribly balanced backrow for Ireland.

in what sense?

Bridge93

gaius c wrote: »

Great players individually but they were part of a horribly balanced backrow for Ireland.

Sean O Brien has come on immeasurably as a 7 since the World Cup. I think they could fit much better as a backrow now.

.ak

gaius c wrote: »

Great players individually but they were part of a horribly balanced backrow for Ireland.

Never really understood that idea tbh...

If they we're fit today they'd all be starting on Sunday.

gaius c

Bridge93 wrote: »

Sean O Brien has come on immeasurably as a 7 since the World Cup. I think they could fit much better as a backrow now.

Possibly. All more individually talented than the Welsh backrow in the QF yet played off the park by them. SOB has come a long way since then though.

Mahatma Geansai

Its a pity that I don't think we ever saw Wallace, Ferris and SOB take the field together. Probably the 3 best athletes we've produced.

Fireball07

former legend wrote: »

No, I'm saying he has the skills and ability to do it and that one or two bad games does not mean anything. If we based our opinions on small numbers of performances, no-one would ever be good enough for international rugby.



The Zebo thing is what does my head in most, tbh. Two games in his entire career, one a forward-dominated meat-grinder of a match and the other a canter in the park, is somehow a basis for thinking he's an option at FB at international level.

It's just bad logic, that's all.

I would say that Zebo has more of the attributes for a full-back than Fitz. He has a monster boot, he is superb in the air and is a good counter-attacker. Positioning is something that you'd have to see over time, same with Fitz.

Fitz's skillset is more suited to centre imo, although both are very good wings.

shaka

rrpc wrote: »

You get the feeling that if Ferris hadn't actually taken up rugby, he might be behind bars by now.

Joking of course

Think he was laying tarmacadam for his uncle at one stage

Berticus

As a kind of shadow backline going forward, I'm definitely excited about the possibilities of seeing these guys lining up:

9. Marmion
10. JJ Hanrahan
11. Craig Gilroy
12. Stuart Olding
13. Jared Payne
14. Simon Zebo
15. Henshaw

That it has to be said is the Project Player and Academy systems working very well...

Rightwing

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Its a pity that I don't think we ever saw Wallace, Ferris and SOB take the field together. Probably the 3 best athletes we've produced.

I'm not sure I'd include Ferris in that, how many caps has he? (I know injuries is the problem)

RuggieBear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xdOX5iNkC8

shaka

RuggieBear wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xdOX5iNkC8

I know what right wing means , serious player but constant injuries might mean not the greatest athlete.

Fwiw a fit ferris would be in any team I'd pick anywhere for a one off game

On a fit day a serious wrecking ball but the body doesn't seem to be able stay together for long

Rightwing

shaka wrote: »

I know what right wing means , serious player but constant injuries might mean not the greatest athlete.

Fwiw a fit ferris would be in any team I'd pick anywhere for a one off game

On a fit day a serious wrecking ball but the body doesn't seem to be able stay together for long

That's it.
No doubt if he wasn't prone to all these injuries, he'd right up there.

But sort of reminds me of the greatest racehorses in a way, so finely tuned.

.ak

Injuries to a player doesn't make him any less of an athlete though. Half the reason he's always out is because the way he plays the game, and the fact he has no cartilage in his knees.

irishbucsfan

How many caps do you need to be an athlete?

Rightwing

.ak wrote: »

Injuries to a player doesn't make him any less of an athlete though. Half the reason he's always out is because the way he plays the game, and the fact he has no cartilage in his knees.

Ah there's no doubt about that, it's not black or white, but I'd still rate someone who doesn't get injuries a better athlete, all other things more or less being equal.

RuggieBear

someone like heaslip who is rarely injured?

Rightwing

RuggieBear wrote: »

someone like heaslip who is rarely injured?

Yeah, I'd say Heaslip is more of an athlete, Ferris may be the better player if he was fully fit for the 1 off game.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How many caps do you need to be an athlete?

It's a secret.

shaka

.ak wrote: »

Injuries to a player doesn't make him any less of an athlete though. Half the reason he's always out is because the way he plays the game, and the fact he has no cartilage in his knees.

I think it does, an athlete not only needs to be fast, strong etc also needs to be durable. Someone isn't a good athlete if they can't play and same goes for any sport

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Ferris not that much of an athlete? Oh lord jesus

The man is a freak