Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread III

Peregrine

chupacabra wrote: »

Popped over to the IRFU site and spotted this "shoulder to shoulder" section. Whoever is the makeup person for these photoshoots should be fired.


Kearney seems to realise how ridiculous the whole thing is.

.ak

So we're only really sweating on the status of our scrum halves. Murray is obviously very important, but if he's fit we can afford to rest Reddan for another week. A 3 week rest should fix any grade 1 strain. Gutted for Kearney who I think could've been a dark horse for the tournament, he was playing very well.

Oregano_State

I think it would be very harsh on Zebo to be left out of the starting XV against Italy, he was on fire today and was one of the only Munster players that managed to look good last week when we were absolutely pasted. Earls hasn't played 80 minutes yet. Fitz should be in the centre.

How long is Dave Kearney out for?

SaveOurLyric

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Are you including the interpros in that? :pac:
Fight for a better Ireland! Pledge your support for Zebo.

Sure.

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Fight for a better Ireland! Pledge your support for Zebo.

Contradiction!

Joe is giving him every chance though and may yet develop him into a good player with the full range of skills for an international. His time is yet to come though.

And as you allude to, however good the case for any Leinster player appears at the moment, they are doing so with a MOC handicap - so an upping of performace when unleashed in an Irish shirt must be factored in to selection reasoning.

aimee1

Oregano_State wrote: »

I think it would be very harsh on Zebo to be left out of the starting XV against Italy, he was on fire today and was one of the only Munster players that managed to look good last week when we were absolutely pasted. Earls hasn't played 80 minutes yet. Fitz should be in the centre.

should zebo start ... yes


does today have a bearing on it, no. It was a turkey shoot against a 2nd string side so it has no relevance really.

Oregano_State

aimee1 wrote: »

should zebo start ... yes


does today have a bearing on it, no. It was a turkey shoot against a 2nd string side so it has no relevance really.

It was a turkey shoot for about 15 minutes.

13-10 at the break with attitude from both sides. I'm not saying that Sale team were world-beaters, but to call it an irrelevant performance is nonsense.

Would his performance have been irrelevant in your eyes, had he thrown three intercept passes, knocked on with the line at his mercy, and missed tackles left right and centre?

SaveOurLyric

Oregano_State wrote: »

Would his performance have been irrelevant in your eyes, had he thrown three intercept passes, knocked on with the line at his mercy, and missed tackles left right and centre?

No, it then would have been relevant.
Playing well against a team being trounced can be discounted. Playing badly against one is relevant however, since playing badly in that case would suggest he cant even play well against beaten teams. But he did well, so its a case of 'not proven'.

Zzippy

Today absolutely was relevant. Zebo put in a good performance that Joe will have noted. Calling it world class is a bit OTT alright, it was only Sale, not the All Blacks. But it won't have done his selection chances any harm at all.

Wang King

S12b wrote: »

What's your thinking there?

9, 10, 12 & 13 never played together.
Recipe for disaster. If it was against France or England, it wouldn't even be considered

Oregano_State

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

No, it then would have been relevant.
Playing well against a team being trounced can be discounted. Playing badly against one is relevant however, since playing badly in that case would suggest he cant even play well against beaten teams. But he did well, so its a case of 'not proven'.

ridiculous double standards!

aimee1

Zzippy wrote: »

Today absolutely was relevant. Zebo put in a good performance that Joe will have noted. Calling it world class is a bit OTT alright, it was only Sale, not the All Blacks. But it won't have done his selection chances any harm at all.

Zebo IMO is already a starter against Italy and his first half performance today was very good and his defensive display last week was more relevant. I just dont think the last 30 minutes or so today has any relevance for international selection. It looks good on the highlights reel but in real terms what did we learn about Zebo when Sale gave up? Nothing worthwhile if you ask me. The 6n wont be like that.

Oregano_State wrote: »

It was a turkey shoot for about 15 minutes.

13-10 at the break with attitude from both sides. I'm not saying that Sale team were world-beaters, but to call it an irrelevant performance is nonsense.

Would his performance have been irrelevant in your eyes, had he thrown three intercept passes, knocked on with the line at his mercy, and missed tackles left right and centre?

The last 25-30 today was a non match really. There was no intensity at all from Sale and Munster were pretty much able to do as they wished in that time. I dont see what is so hard to comprehend about that to be honest.

Tox56

Oregano_State wrote: »

ridiculous double standards!

Its not really though. If he had been terrible against a crap team with nothing to play for it would have counted pretty seriously against him. Playing well gives him some credit but not as much as playing well against a good team with something to play for would have.

Hagz

Oregano_State wrote: »

ridiculous double standards!

Not really...

If Israel Dagg runs riot against Italy who really takes much notice? If Israel Dagg has a howler against Italy, I would imagine a lot of people would take notice.

So what your saying is Zebo is better than Israel Dagg

Greyian

Deleted User wrote: »

So what your saying is Zebo is better than Israel Dagg

Indubitably!

Fireball07

Zebo's performance today, won't hurt his chance- 2 expert finishes that not many other wingers would pull off. I wouldn't say that they mean he'll definitely start either, but he showed what he can do... I actually think his performance against Saracens is more likely to stand to him, he was really good in a poor outfit.

aimee1

Fireball07 wrote: »

Zebo's performance today, won't hurt his chance- 2 expert finishes that not many other wingers would pull off. I wouldn't say that they mean he'll definitely start either, but he showed what he can do... I actually think his performance against Saracens is more likely to stand to him, he was really good in a poor outfit.

but they were two good finishes that we know he is capable of so from that regard we learned nothing. We also know he is a good runner in space who can offload and link play.

First half today he was the best player on the pitch and that counts big time because the game was close but once Sale gave up it was more importantly a case of please nobody get injured.

Oregano_State

aimee1 wrote: »

should zebo start ... yes


does today have a bearing on it, no. It was a turkey shoot against a 2nd string side so it has no relevance really.

aimee1 wrote: »

The last 25-30 today was a non match really. There was no intensity at all from Sale and Munster were pretty much able to do as they wished in that time. I dont see what is so hard to comprehend about that to be honest.

Your initial post that I responded to is above, saying that the whole match was irrelevant. You then changed your position in the second quoted part, which brings you roughly into line with what I was saying, but you went ahead and straw-manned me anyway just to save face.

aimee1

Oregano_State wrote: »

Your initial post that I responded to is above, saying that the whole match was irrelevant. You then changed your position in the second quoted part, which brings you roughly into line with what I was saying, but you went ahead and straw-manned me anyway just to save face.

i havent changed position. I just dont think today has any bearing on selection and cannot be used to judge a player. The first half was competitive enough but it was a non event, Munster were never going to lose today.


Zebo played very well, but I dont think it makes or breaks his selection for italy. I already think he is going to make the XV anyway

mfceiling

Zzippy wrote: »

Today absolutely was relevant. Zebo put in a good performance that Joe will have noted. Calling it world class is a bit OTT alright, it was only SaleSale's seconds, not the All Blacks. But it won't have done his selection chances any harm at all.

FYP...

.ak

I'd be delighted if our brace of wings are picked from the following players (in no particular order);

Bowe
Fitzgerald
Zebo
Earls

Not really bothered which ones start. All are top notch players. Some stronger than others but all more than capable.

total former

Possibly already mentioned, but Peter O'Reilly reckons Ross will start both the Wolfhounds and Italy matches.

Buer

So with Henderson now back and playing an hour last night, is there a chance he'll start against Italy? I'd expect him to start for the Wolfhounds also to give him another good run and increase his fitness.

We have an issue in the back row with our front line options at 7 absent. Given POM has experience of playing 7, I would think there's a half decent chance that Schmidt will move POM and look to start Henderson at 6 against Italy, just as he did in the 2014 6N.

It would give us a stronger contingent as well as bringing Henderson up to speed as quickly as possible for the later games.

Neil3030

If Henderson is anywhere near his best he has to play. Simply too destructive to leave out.

Swiwi.

Buer wrote: »

So with Henderson now back and playing an hour last night, is there a chance he'll start against Italy? I'd expect him to start for the Wolfhounds also to give him another good run and increase his fitness.

We have an issue in the back row with our front line options at 7 absent. Given POM has experience of playing 7, I would think there's a half decent chance that Schmidt will move POM and look to start Henderson at 6 against Italy, just as he did in the 2014 6N.

It would give us a stronger contingent as well as bringing Henderson up to speed as quickly as possible for the later games.

Kind of reminds me of my other international team: Kieran Read gets injured for example and everyone debates which of the far less capable 8s will get the nod...and instead McCaw goes to 8, and Cane gets 7. Much like Ruddock getting moved from from 6 to 7 in Autumn, I wouldn't be surprised to see a proven loosie in another role (eg POM) get moved to 7, and their place get taken by a more able back-up. Far from certain IMO that TOD or Murphy get the nod.

I must say, what luck that Italy first up. Imagine if it was England in Twickenham...

Tox56

total former wrote: »

Possibly already mentioned, but Peter O'Reilly reckons Ross will start both the Wolfhounds and Italy matches.

Hmm wolfhounds yes but really don't think he should be starting against Italy

total former

Henderson coming in would echo what happened in the Autumn with Ruddock, getting the best players on the pitch even if it means someone being out of position.

Neither Murphy nor TOD are particularly exciting options for 7 really, although Murphy was good yesterday.

Brewster

Hendo needs to be able to play 80 mins. We will beat Italy with TOM or JM but France game is different given the physicality they will bring to game. I'd give Hendo 60 mins against Saxons, then give him 30 mins off bench against Italy where he could cause some damage if game has loosened up a bit and then I'd start him against France. POM and Hendo could play in same back row.

aimee1

Swiwi. wrote: »

I must say, what luck that Italy first up. Imagine if it was England in Twickenham...

be a major bummer for the people who bought tickets to the england game in the aviva

molloyjh

Zebo was very good today, but it needs to be held in context. The game was made for him. A 6 Nations game would be utterly different.

For me what was most pleasing was Earls' form. Again, it was a reasonably handy one for him to excel in but coming back from injury with little game time under his belt could have really hampered him and it didn't.

aimee1

molloyjh wrote: »

Zebo was very good today, but it needs to be held in context. The game was made for him. A 6 Nations game would be utterly different.

For me what was most pleasing was Earls' form. Again, it was a reasonably handy one for him to excel in but coming back from injury with little game time under his belt could have really hampered him and it didn't.

Earls hasnt completed a full 80 and he went off with an injury of sorts from what I see on twitter. Tight groin. Thats why i feel he might not feature in the 23 for first two 6n games. His line and finish for the try was excellent.

aimee1

molloyjh wrote: »

Zebo was very good today, but it needs to be held in context. The game was made for him. A 6 Nations game would be utterly different.

For me what was most pleasing was Earls' form. Again, it was a reasonably handy one for him to excel in but coming back from injury with little game time under his belt could have really hampered him and it didn't.

Earls hasnt completed a full 80 and he went off with an injury of sorts from what I see on twitter. Tight groin. Thats why i feel he might not feature in the 23 for first two 6n games. His line and finish for the try was excellent.

stephen_n

I'm just not buying this Henderson being nailed on thing at all, yes he has impressed at club level but his performances in green have so far been underwhelming, with defenses better set and quicker to take him down, his destructive ball carrying hasn't emerged yet at international level. Going with a more traditional 7 in Murphy or TOD and leaving POM to do his thing at six may be conservative but also the right way to go.

homecouldbhere

I gotta say I'm a little perplexed at how many posters here are pleased that our first match in the 6N is Italy away.
Sure there are no easy games in the 6N anymore, but Italy first up heightens risk of us being on the receiving end of bad injuries IMO. They're big up front and usually plan to use full on battering ram tactics. This usually results in them running out of puff by 60 minutes, but not before doing someone some damage.
The fact that we play them first means they're freshest. (If we played them later in the tournament they probably-as they usually do-lose some of their heavy hitters through injury).

Call me pessimistic, but give me (either home or away) Wales or Scotland first and I'd see at as a smoother introduction to the tournament.

We will win in Rome, I'm sure of that.
But a real victory will be coming out of that game without fresh injuries. (To the forwards in particular.)

Hagz

I don't think we're any more likely to pick up injuries playing Italy than we are any of the other teams in the 6nations tbh. We tend to be pretty slow starters, so I'm pleased we're kicking off with a team we can afford to make mistakes against. And seeing as we are going to be without Sexton it's doubly positive. I wouldn't be at all confident of us getting a win against the other teams without him.

sydthebeat

Italy aren't the eight man team they used to be, and looking at their squad they have one of the weakest packs they've had for years.
They're actually trying to play some expansive rugby these days and have found a half decent 10 to do so.

.ak

So, my guess for the WH team...

01. McGrath
02. Strauss
03. Ross
04. Foley
05. McCarthy
06. Henderson
07. Murphy
08. Conan
09. Marmion
10. Keatley
11. Gilroy
12. Reid
13. Cave
14. McFadden
15. Jones

16. Herring
17. Healy
18. Moore
19. Diack
20. SOB
21. Boss
22. Madigan
23. Payne

aimee1

Its not looking good for conor murray at the moment

So its down to Marmion or Boss, or Stringer


Marmion/Boss - Madigan - Henshaw - Fitz

Stringer :eek:

Greyian

aimee1 wrote: »

Its not looking good for conor murray at the moment

So its down to Marmion or Boss, or Stringer


Marmion/Boss - Madigan - Henshaw - Fitz

Don't make baby jesus cry

Buer

It'll be Marmion and Boss for Italy if they're both ruled out.

And people won't be happy but Boss might be the one starting. Schmidt has trusted him a lot in the past and had him in his 23 several times last season ahead of Marmion.

Stringer needs 2 caps. Lets figure this out

.ak

Stringer has been playing well so I wouldn't begrudge him an emergency call up - I don't think it'd be for sentiment or anything either, he's a genuine option and we're badly stuck.

What is the official word on Murray? We badly, badly need him I think. I can see us slipping up in Italy if we don't have a competent halfback on the field.

thomond2006

If Murray is out for Italy then it's possible the starting halfbacks could play in Cork, particularly if it's Marmion/Madigan.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Murray is out for Italy then it's possible the starting halfbacks could play in Cork, particularly if it's Marmion/Madigan.

The only thing is Madigan has played a lot of rugby. I thought he butchered a couple of chances on saturday which is a bit uncharacteristic of him - he looks a bit tired, mentally speaking. Could explain the kicking too, although more than likely it must've been an injury causing him to pull those.

Buer

Stringer has been barely playing, in fairness. He started a game back at the start of the season (possibly the first game of the entire season?) and has come off the bench since then for the last 20 minutes a number of times. I can't see him having the lungs or the legs for test rugby, even off the bench, any longer. He turns 38 at the end of this year. It's remarkable he's even still playing!

sydthebeat

.ak wrote: »

Stringer has been playing well so I wouldn't begrudge him an emergency call up - I don't think it'd be for sentiment or anything either, he's a genuine option and we're badly stuck.

completely agreed, i would have no problem at all with him having the first, or second, half against the saxons with Marmion having the other.
Depending on the game JS wants to play of course.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Stringer has been barely playing, in fairness. He started a game back at the start of the season (possibly the first game of the entire season?) and has come off the bench since then for the last 20 minutes a number of times. I can't see him having the lungs or the legs for test rugby, even off the bench, any longer. He turns 38 at the end of this year. It's remarkable he's even still playing!

Shut up. Just shut up.

Have you never seen any sports films? If there's one thing they've taught me, it's that over-the-hill players are the luckiest guys in the world.

Stringer is going to come off the bench in the world cup final when we're 6 points down and under pressure. Stringer leaps to action, tap-tackling a clean-through Julian Savea, forcing him to knock on. The resultant scrum, after 3 resets, sees Stringer making his first ever break at international level all the way from the Irish 22 and going under the posts to leave a simple kick for the emergency out half replacement (ROG) for the win.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

Stringer has been barely playing, in fairness. He started a game back at the start of the season (possibly the first game of the entire season?) and has come off the bench since then for the last 20 minutes a number of times. I can't see him having the lungs or the legs for test rugby, even off the bench, any longer. He turns 38 at the end of this year. It's remarkable he's even still playing!

Apparently (I dunno if this is just one of those feel good stories) he tops the endurance testing in Bath and is in unbelievable physical shape. He claims it's because he quit the booze and has had a healthy committed professional diet his whole life.