Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread III

ssaye2

The thing im so happy about is no matter what the injuries or who you are as a player, if Joe believes you can execute his game plan against the opposition you will play. He said they decided to play a certain way this weekend with kicking and contesting in the air and hopefully nullifying the welsh back line. Plumtree should be applauded for his forward play. Toner passing the ball from the line out early and the maul marching on it just works so well.

At 15 seconds Toner has caught, passed and there is a 6 on 2 rampaging towards the line as his tacklers are on the deck with him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DvUrz5D90g

The scot game was a different efficient game plan too. England are a bit of an enigma with new faces since the AIs.

The england team who dominate up front and kick their points have a devasting ball carrier in the backrow now, a huge centre and another quality fullback in Brown. Ireland should be slight underdogs going to twickenham and I love that.

Over to you Joe, cant wait to see his gameplan.
Cant wait!!!

Grimebox

Oh god its happening again. I'm starting to believe Ireland will win the world cup

Morf

Grimebox wrote: »

Oh god its happening again. I'm starting to believe Ireland will win the world cup

Why stop there?

CatFromHue

The England game will be an acid test of where we are I think. They have an equal pack, if not better than us.

This season, according to ESPN anyway, they've won 29 out of 30 mauls compared to 12 out of 20 for their opposition. There's no stats for the Eng Nz game though. The lineout is 51 won and 10 lost on their on throw and they've stolen 5 opposition throws, with Lawes doing most of the damage here.

Compare that to 23 out of 26 for Ireland (which there are stats for all of Ireland's games so that's one extra game for us) compared to 6 out of 9 for our opposition. The lineout we're 55 won and only 5 lost on our own throw and we've stolen 9 opposition throws.

Again the stats for the Ireland games are for 5 games (Wal, Scot, NZ, Oz, Sam) whereas the stats for England are for 4 games (Scot, Fra, Oz, Arg).

The English scrum is also pretty handy too.

So in the forwards it's going to be a right good contest with the English slightly ahead at scrum and maul time but the Irish at lineout time.

As for the backs there's not much in it either. We haven't been setting the world on fire with our back play and early on in the game yesterday when we did try running it a few times the Welsh were able to deal with it relatively easy. The same could be said for the English backline too.

Utopia Parkway

No big secret to playing against England. You have to take them on and match them physically up front and in the set-piece. If Ireland can do that I think we have more subtlety in general play to create openings. They still rely almost completely on overwhelming brute force to bludgeon teams into submission. When it works they look completely dominant in games but when they can't get on top up front they often run out of ideas fairly quickly.

padser

uggybear wrote: »

wonder who's going to get a call up to replace Dan Touhy in the second row alongside O'Connell and Toner?

I've a sneaking suspicion he will go for Henderson. Henderson is highly likely to travel the World Cup given the tightness of squads and his versitility. We saw at Leinster for years that Schmidt was consistently playing players with an eye to the future and I think he may just revert to type and try this again.

Not worried either way to be honest, I think both bring qualities onto the bench and Id be happy to see either come on in a tight game to freshen us up.

former legend

Happy Birthday Gordon D'Arcy, 34 today, written off many times but still playing fantastic rugby.

desertcircus

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

No big secret to playing against England. You have to take them on and match them physically up front and in the set-piece. If Ireland can do that I think we have more subtlety in general play to create openings. They still rely almost completely on overwhelming brute force to bludgeon teams into submission. When it works they look completely dominant in games but when they can't get on top up front they often run out of ideas fairly quickly.

If England do try to go for brute force, then we'll see a lot of kicked ball from Ireland at just enough distance to enable green jerseys to chase it down and force England to come back around before hitting the ruck. If you rely on physical power to win, then you need runners to tackle in defence and space to accelerate in attack - and Ireland utterly starved Wales of both on Saturday.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Do we think there will be any changes for the England game?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Marshall back in

Buer

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Do we think there will be any changes for the England game?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Marshall back in

I'd be more inclined to think Marshall will come back in for Italy and then, if he delivers a big game, it will be anyone's shout for France. I think D'Arcy will continue at 12 though for the time being to allow some continuity in midfield and shutting down the likes of Burrell taking crash ball at an angle to expose any alignment misfires.

In terms of other changes, despite people saying Schmidt is known for chopping and changing his teams to suit, he will very much have who he sees as his best current XV for this game. The only change I can see happening would be on the wing. Outside chance the sub props could get a crack.

former legend

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Do we think there will be any changes for the England game?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Marshall back in

I would be utterly shocked to see Marshall start against England, I have to say. Not that he played badly against Scotland, he played quite well, but I don't see D'Arcy being dropped after Saturday. Schmidt will be looking at Burrell and the similarities with Jamie Roberts won't go unnoticed.

There has been a lot of talk on boards.ie about Schmidt's fondness for rotation etc but I think it's being overstated somewhat, I think we won't see too much change. The main areas that have been talked about here as being up for grabs have been:

- Tight-head; no way will Schmidt throw Moore in for his first start in Twickenham.

- Second-row; Toner is nailed on now, it's between McCarthy and Henderson for the bench.

- Openside; Henry has been excellent but this is one position where we might see a change, but then O'Donnell hasn't been given huge amounts of game time so far. Will be interesting to see if TOD is released this weekend.

- Inside centre; see above

- Wingers; before the Scotland game, I'd have said there was no way that Trimble and Kearney would be kept on once Bowe, Fitzgerald and Zebo came back, but they've played very well and Schmidt has to strike a balance between using his squad and rewarding players in form. I think if Bowe or Fitzgerald play this weekend (and we don't know if they will) and force his hand, then we might see a change. If the alternatives are Zebo and McFadden, I think he'll stick with Trimble and Dave K.

Positions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 13 and 15 are not up for discussion IMO.

On the bench; I'd expect Reddan to replace Boss, maybe McFadden to drop out but McGrath, Moore, Cronin and Jackson will stay I think.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

former legend wrote: »

I would be utterly shocked to see Marshall start against England, I have to say. Not that he played badly against Scotland, he played quite well, but I don't see D'Arcy being dropped after Saturday. Schmidt will be looking at Burrell and the similarities with Jamie Roberts won't go unnoticed.

There has been a lot of talk on boards.ie about Schmidt's fondness for rotation etc but I think it's being overstated somewhat, I think we won't see too much change. The main areas that have been talked about here as being up for grabs have been:

- Tight-head; no way will Schmidt throw Moore in for his first start in Twickenham.

- Second-row; Toner is nailed on now, it's between McCarthy and Henderson for the bench.

- Openside; Henry has been excellent but this is one position where we might see a change, but then O'Donnell hasn't been given huge amounts of game time.

- Inside centre; see above

- Wingers; before the Scotland game, I'd have said there was no way that Trimble and Kearney would be kept on once Bowe, Fitzgerald and Zebo came back, but they've played very well and Schmidt has to strike a balance between using his squad and rewarding players in form. I think if Bowe or Fitzgerald play this weekend (and we don't know if they will) and force his hand, then we might see a change. If the alternatives are Zebo and McFadden, I think he'll stick with Luke and Dave.

Positions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 13 and 15 are not up for discussion IMO.

On the bench; I'd expect Reddan to replace Boss, maybe McFadden to drop out but McGrath, Moore, Cronin and Jackson will stay I think.

I think it would be very harsh to drop Trimble. Dave has been good too but Trimble was class on Sunday, his jinking run into the Welsh 22 was a joy to watch

had a good laugh at Adam Jones' attempt at a tackle in during that phase, pretty pathetic and shows just how poor he is in the loose

I think we could see a change in our defensive patterns against England, our drift worked very well at the weekend but I think Schmidt will want to get up in the face of Farrell who was standing very deep at the weekend

former legend

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I think it would be very harsh to drop Trimble. Dave has been good too but Trimble was class on Sunday, his jinking run into the Welsh 22 was a joy to watch

Sorry that was a typo, fixed now; I don't think Trimble will be dropped either, nor should he be.

MugMugs

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Do we think there will be any changes for the England game?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Marshall back in

Our squad is so strong that I really think it's wide open.

I can't see Schmidt hesitating putting Marhsall back in and could even see McGrath or Moore starting too.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

MugMugs wrote: »

Our squad is so strong that I really think it's wide open.

I can't see Schmidt hesitating putting Marhsall back in and could even see McGrath or Moore starting too.

I don't think Moore is going to start in London. In fact I think benching him is the better call considering Mako Vunipola will be coming the same time as Moore and there's only one winner at scrum time there, could reap benefits

Moore will likely start against Italy and it he may not look back

thomond2006

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I don't think Moore is going to start in London. In fact I think benching him is the better call considering Mako Vunipola will be coming the same time as Moore and there's only one winner at scrum time there, could reap benefits

Moore will likely start against Italy and it he may not look back

If Ireland beat England then I think there will be some rotation for the Italy match. If Ireland lose to England then points difference becomes king.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Ireland beat England then I think there will be some rotation for the Italy match. If Ireland lose to England then points difference becomes king.

true, and it's worth noting that the Italian scrum is arguably the strongest in the competition so maybe Schmidt might be wary of that

thomond2006

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

true, and it's worth noting that the Italian scrum is arguably the strongest in the competition so maybe Schmidt might be wary of that

Although I'll be shocked if they're not without their loosehead for the rest of the tournament.

former legend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Although I'll be shocked if they're not without their loosehead for the rest of the tournament.

He was the sub though?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

former legend wrote: »

He was the sub though?

Yep, the starting Italian loosehead ripped it up in the first half too!

Swiwi.

I can't see any changes for the England bar the obvious need to replace Tuohy, and I reckon despite their decent performaces that DK and AT are not 100% guaranteed starters - I think we might see a more expansive game from Ireland, it's hard to see Ireland getting that much success with the rolling maul against the English pack. But I'd be in favour of an aerial assault on the English wingers who don't strike me as fantastic under the high ball.

Brewster

Swiwi. wrote: »

I can't see any changes for the England bar the obvious need to replace Tuohy, and I reckon despite their decent performaces that DK and AT are not 100% guaranteed starters - I think we might see a more expansive game from Ireland, it's hard to see Ireland getting that much success with the rolling maul against the English pack. But I'd be in favour of an aerial assault on the English wingers who don't strike me as fantastic under the high ball.

It is nice to see Andrew finally getting the credit he deserves. Playing in his natural position, coupled with a renewed belief and confidence has him at the top of his game. It was a little frustrating debating this point on here in week upto selection in scotland game! Joe is picking players in their best positions and they are performing. I don't see Zebo getting a start in the Six Nations and he will have to look to summer tour now to re-establish himself. Unless Bowe plays 60 mins next weekend and has a stormer, he shouldn't start. Bowe was terribly off form this season so that's a huge ask. Trimble has completely out performed Bowe this season.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Brewster wrote: »

It is nice to see Andrew finally getting the credit he deserves. Playing in his natural position, coupled with a renewed belief and confidence has him at the top of his game. It was a little frustrating debating this point on here in week upto selection in scotland game! Joe is picking players in their best positions and they are performing. I don't see Zebo getting a start in the Six Nations and he will have to look to summer tour now to re-establish himself. Unless Bowe plays 60 mins next weekend and has a stormer, he shouldn't start. Bowe was terribly off form this season so that's a huge ask. Trimble has completely out performed Bowe this season.

I'd be surprised if Zebo isn't involved at some stage over the championship. Can see him benching against Italy, or even starting it alongside Bowe or Fitzgerald if we lose in London and points become more of a factor

That said Trimble has grabbed his chance with both hands

Swiwi.

Brewster wrote: »

It is nice to see Andrew finally getting the credit he deserves. Playing in his natural position, coupled with a renewed belief and confidence has him at the top of his game. It was a little frustrating debating this point on here in week upto selection in scotland game! Joe is picking players in their best positions and they are performing. I don't see Zebo getting a start in the Six Nations and he will have to look to summer tour now to re-establish himself. Unless Bowe plays 60 mins next weekend and has a stormer, he shouldn't start. Bowe was terribly off form this season so that's a huge ask. Trimble has completely out performed Bowe this season.

I expect Schmidt will go horses for courses with his selection, and I won't be surprised if one of either DK or AT aren't selected, and I wouldn't see this as a reflection on them. England and Wales have completely different strengths, and whereas Wales would have loved Ireland to play a wide game, I think England would love Ireland to attempt a narrow forward based game, so I don't expect Schmidt to do this.

Brewster

Swiwi. wrote: »

I expect Schmidt will go horses for courses with his selection, and I won't be surprised if one of either DK or AT aren't selected, and I wouldn't see this as a reflection on them. England and Wales have completely different strengths, and whereas Wales would have loved Ireland to play a wide game, I think England would love Ireland to attempt a narrow forward based game, so I don't expect Schmidt to do this.

Absolutely, that's what makes Joe such a special coach. He has to balance his selections though with rewarding past performances. On his day Bowe is a more complete player than Trimble, no question, but Bowe must be treated like everyone else. He has to earn the spot. The same applies to Zebo and Fitz. Fitz needs game time next week in my view to take shirt of Kearney junior. I have been very impressed with him. He got over gain line nearly every time.

Brewster

What is really exciting are the players to potentially come back into squad, O Brien, hopefully Ferris, Bowe, Zebo, and one I can't wait to see... Step forward one Mr. Payne. He will be our next 13 and will actually improve team when Drico bows out, scary eh?! There are really exciting times ahead folks.

former legend

Brewster wrote: »

What is really exciting are the players to potentially come back into squad, O Brien, hopefully Ferris, Bowe, Zebo, and one I can't wait to see... Step forward one Mr. Payne. He will be our next 13 and will actually improve team when Drico bows out, scary eh?! There are really exciting times ahead folks.

I can't wait to see Payne in an Irish jersey but it's not clear yet if he can/will make the switch to 13 full-time and it's a big leap to say he will improve the team compared to O'Driscoll.

I hope he does, obviously, I think he has all the skills to be a top-class 13 and I know he's played a bit there already, plus it would be a shame for Payne and Kearney to be competing and having one of them losing out.

Brewster

former legend wrote: »

I can't wait to see Payne in an Irish jersey but it's not clear yet if he can/will make the switch to 13 full-time and it's a big leap to say he will improve the team compared to O'Driscoll.

I hope he does, obviously, I think he has all the skills to be a top-class 13 and I know he's played a bit there already, plus it would be a shame for Payne and Kearney to be competing and having one of them losing out.

He will improve team, I've zero doubt on this. The guy has everything, he could play anywhere accross back line- he is that good.

awec

Payne is a world class 15 but not a world class 13 IMO.

That's not to say he isn't still the best option we will have at 13.

Tox56

awec wrote: »

Payne is a world class 15 but not a world class 13 IMO.

That's not to say he isn't still the best option we will have at 13.

In fairness (and I'm not doubting his fantastic ability) it's very difficult to call someone world class when they've never played international rugby. I suspect he'll be excellent as we all think, but the highest level he has played has been H Cup/Super Rugby, and that's a different thing entirely

Brewster

Tox56 wrote: »

In fairness (and I'm not doubting his fantastic ability) it's very difficult to call someone world class when they've never played international rugby. I suspect he'll be excellent as we all think, but the highest level he has played has been H Cup/Super Rugby, and that's a different thing entirely

I would take your point, some players are just so special though, you can make the case he is world class! Kearney is too good a player, so we have to play Payne at 13 in my view. Kearney and Payne are so good they both must play.

TheGoldenAges

Ireland up to sixth in the rankings
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/29638.php#.UvjHNfmKWm4

rrpc

Brewster wrote: »

I would take your point, some players are just so special though, you can make the case he is world class! Kearney is too good a player, so we have to play Payne at 13 in my view. Kearney and Payne are so good they both must play.

There's always the possibility of Luke Fitz moving to 13 as well. I know he's primarily a winger, but he's had some good cameos in midfield and is capable of gain line breaks in heavy traffic. Defensively he's also very good and very strong.

Brewster

rrpc wrote: »

There's always the possibility of Luke Fitz moving to 13 as well. I know he's primarily a winger, but he's had some good cameos in midfield and is capable of gain line breaks in heavy traffic. Defensively he's also very good and very strong.

We all know Luke's strengths. I do worry about his robustness though.. However, even if Luke proves his fitness and gets a run of games, Payne is still ahead of him for me. Payne is one of the top five players playing on the island. Pienaar is another, O Connell is still there, Heaslip is there and O'Brien for me....

CatFromHue

Until Fitz or Payne start to play a few more game for their clubs at 13 I'll always see them as guys who might play 13 as opposed to guys who can play 13.

bilston

awec wrote: »

Payne is a world class 15 but not a world class 13 IMO.

That's not to say he isn't still the best option we will have at 13.

He's not world class...yet...

But I agree his best position is 15 but because Ireland's need is at 13 he may be shoe horned into that spot. Of course he is a very good 13 in his own right and may be the best available for Ireland, but like Earls if he isn't playing there for his province it will be hard for him to slot in there for Ireland.

jacothelad

CatFromHue wrote: »

Until Fitz or Payne start to play a few more game for their clubs at 13 I'll always see them as guys who might play 13 as opposed to guys who can play 13.

Payne is a revelation at 15. His attacking intuition is unbelievably good. His clearance kicks are amazing. His defence is outstanding. At 13 he's not as good as Cave. I.M.O. he does everything that Kearney does but is a step up in attack. He really isn't the answer to the need to replace BOD. He just isn't.

jacothelad

I'm surprised there hasn't been a deluge of criticism aimed at Jamie Heaslip for his speculative chip and chase into the in goal area which he hadn't a hope in hell of making. Surely he should have held on and recycled. He had plenty of players in supporting positions. After all, we need every point we can get...Points difference blah blah blah.. Terrible decision. I'm sure Schmidt will have a word with him about it.......:D:D:D:D:D:D (Just as well it wasn't Jackson):P

former legend

6-8 weeks for Tuohy

Grimebox

jacothelad wrote: »

I'm surprised there hasn't been a deluge of criticism aimed at Jamie Heaslip for his speculative chip and chase into the in goal area which he hadn't a hope in hell of making. Surely he should have held on and recycled. He had plenty of players in supporting positions. After all, we need every point we can get...Points difference blah blah blah.. Terrible decision. I'm sure Schmidt will have a word with him about it.......:D:D:D:D:D:D (Just as well it wasn't Jackson):P

I thought it was good option at the time. He did over cook it though. I'd have to watch it again

I just realised this is a reference to PJ's kick last week !

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

jacothelad wrote: »

I'm surprised there hasn't been a deluge of criticism aimed at Jamie Heaslip for his speculative chip and chase into the in goal area which he hadn't a hope in hell of making. Surely he should have held on and recycled. He had plenty of players in supporting positions. After all, we need every point we can get...Points difference blah blah blah.. Terrible decision. I'm sure Schmidt will have a word with him about it.......:D:D:D:D:D:D (Just as well it wasn't Jackson):P

I shouted for him to kick it when he got the ball so I think it was the right choice just poorly executed

What about POM's kick though!

Brewster

former legend wrote: »

6-8 weeks for Tuohy

That's rotten luck, just as he was making a break through. Get himself fit for Sarries I guess.

jacothelad

former legend wrote: »

6-8 weeks for Tuohy

Hope it's closer to 6.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Ruddock was togged out on Saturday too

Brewster

There is someone on gumtree looking to swap One Direction tickets for a pair of Twickenham tickets. A desperate dad throwing the daughter's concert tickets into the mix?!! I think her concert tickets are safe enough!!

Hagz

Jared Payne is most definitely a better 13 than Cave. He's the best 13 in the country without a shadow of a doubt. I'd argue that if he got a run of games there, he's better than BOD is in the present. Certainly from an attacking POV. I was mesmerised by Payne when he played outside centre for the Blues. He's just more valuable to Ulster at full-back, where he's allowed more space and where Ulster don't have a lot of depth.

However, there's also the matter of Olding, who in my opinion is the most talented youngster in the country, and he needs to be placed somewhere. He looked good at 15 in the one game he played there, but I feel that he's more suited to centre. One of Marshall or Cave is going to have to lose out, or else I'd like to see Olding come down south.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Hagz wrote: »

Jared Payne is most definitely a better 13 than Cave. He's the best 13 in the country without a shadow of a doubt. I'd argue that if he got a run of games there, he's better than BOD is in the present. Certainly from an attacking POV. I was mesmerised by Payne when he played outside centre for the Blues. He's just more valuable to Ulster at full-back, where he's allowed more space and where Ulster don't have a lot of depth.

However, there's also the matter of Olding, who in my opinion is the most talented youngster in the country, and he needs to be placed somewhere. He looked good at 15 in the one game he played there, but I feel that he's more suited to centre. One of Marshall or Cave is going to have to lose out, or else I'd like to see Olding come down south.

Not too far south I'd imagine

Molester Stallone

Brewster wrote: »

There is someone on gumtree looking to swap One Direction tickets for a pair of Twickenham tickets. A desperate dad throwing the daughter's concert tickets into the mix?!! I think her concert tickets are safe enough!!

Mike Phillips might take them!

Brewster

Hagz wrote: »

Jared Payne is most definitely a better 13 than Cave. He's the best 13 in the country without a shadow of a doubt. I'd argue that if he got a run of games there, he's better than BOD is in the present. Certainly from an attacking POV. I was mesmerised by Payne when he played outside centre for the Blues. He's just more valuable to Ulster at full-back, where he's allowed more space and where Ulster don't have a lot of depth.

However, there's also the matter of Olding, who in my opinion is the most talented youngster in the country, and he needs to be placed somewhere. He looked good at 15 in the one game he played there, but I feel that he's more suited to centre. One of Marshall or Cave is going to have to lose out, or else I'd like to see Olding come down south.

Something we can agree on Hagz! My mate Trimble has made Jonathan Davies team of week on the bbc rugby website!! Never in doubt

Then again, what do the Welsh know about rugby after Saturday's hammering

bilston

Hagz wrote: »

Jared Payne is most definitely a better 13 than Cave. He's the best 13 in the country without a shadow of a doubt. I'd argue that if he got a run of games there, he's better than BOD is in the present. Certainly from an attacking POV. I was mesmerised by Payne when he played outside centre for the Blues. He's just more valuable to Ulster at full-back, where he's allowed more space and where Ulster don't have a lot of depth.

However, there's also the matter of Olding, who in my opinion is the most talented youngster in the country, and he needs to be placed somewhere. He looked good at 15 in the one game he played there, but I feel that he's more suited to centre. One of Marshall or Cave is going to have to lose out, or else I'd like to see Olding come down south.

Well we just have to wait and see how Olding recovers from his ruptured ACL first. I saw him at the Montpellier game in early Jan and he was walking reasonably freely around Ravenhill, albeit with a bit of a limp, if he recovers to his pre injury form then he will very quickly become an option for Ireland I would think. I read an interview with him just before Christmas where he cited the fact that Schmidt had been in touch with him and in the same quote he said that the 2015 WC was very much his goal so it certainly seems like JS has him in his thoughts.