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Anti-Cannabis Propaganda!

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    #32
    MonstaMash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭MonstaMash


    Lenin Skynard wrote: »
    Even as little as half a joint can kill you. Not even once, kids.
    I must be a fookn medical miracle so, been smoking three a night, week nights, for the last 30+ years...

    Weekends...whose counting? :eek:


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    #33
    kiffer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    I saw this article and went and checked Wikipedia, which says there are no recorded deaths caused by directly by cannabis (up at least as recently as 2010) and has a paper to back that up... now I'm sure that plenty of people have gotten stoned and their impaired judgement and motor skill have resulted in them getting killed... but from a toxicity point of view it seems unlikely that this woman, who had smoked many times before died as a result of half a joint.


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    #34
    Lenin Skynard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭Lenin Skynard


    MonstaMash wrote: »
    I must be a fookn medical miracle so, been smoking three a night, week nights, for the last 30+ years...

    Weekends...whose counting? :eek:

    Hey that makes two of us! I don't smoke this new "skunk" weed they're always warning of though. It's so much stronger than the old days and I'm afraid I'll turn schizophrenic :pac:

    I found this article interesting. They asked doctors about this particular "death from cannabis toxicity" and they said it's a ridiculous conclusion.


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    #35
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    kiffer wrote: »
    but from a toxicity point of view it seems unlikely that this woman, who had smoked many times before died as a result of half a joint.
    Well the article does say this is the second death associated solely with cannabis use.

    I still find it hard to believe you can die from smoking cannabis and think there must be some other factors involved that we don't know about.

    The fact there are sick people using weed on a daily basis in the US and we haven't heard any reports back from there of people dying would make me suspect there was something else involved in the two deaths in the UK, something like contaminated street cannabis.

    But again, surely the pathologist would have known the difference.


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    #36
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Is it really propaganda if it's true?

    Does marijuana affect the cardiovascular system? Yes. It does.
    Can it trigger heart attacks? Yes.


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    #37
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Days 298


    Manach wrote: »
    In other words, a mainsteam media outlet has published an article providing a warning on the perils of a gateway drug. Now, if it could be established a link existed between this and the inclination to write hyperbolic posts then that would be headline news.

    Feck sake Manach could you ever just post in straight forward English.


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    #38
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Is it really propaganda if it's true?

    Does marijuana affect the cardiovascular system? Yes. It does.
    Can it trigger heart attacks? Yes.

    can it?!


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    #39
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Can it trigger heart attacks? Yes.
    So can red bull supposedly. Two people have possibly died due to their cannabis use, we don't know what kind of cannabis, whether it was contaminated, whether they had an underlying condition, two people just isn't enough to go on.


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    #40
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    can it?!

    According to medical studies, yes.
    http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/103/23/2805.full
    The risk of myocardial infarction onset was elevated almost 5-fold in the hour after smoking marijuana... The heightened risk seemed to decline rapidly and was not significantly elevated beyond the first hour.


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    #41
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    can it?!
    Basically any chemical in your bloodstream can trigger heart attacks. Even ones that your body has produced itself.

    Mixing drugs, particularly stimulants and depressants, increases the risk. So alcohol & tobacco, alcohol & cannabis, alcohol & caffeine, etc.

    The relative risk is what's important. Most things can kill you. It's the odds that it will kill you which are important.


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    #42
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    ScumLord wrote: »
    So can red bull supposedly. Two people have possibly died due to their cannabis use, we don't know what kind of cannabis, whether it was contaminated, whether they had an underlying condition, two people just isn't enough to go on.

    Yes - lots of things are correlated with an increased risk of heart attack. That means, even if it's rare, it happens. It's measurable and it's real.

    Caffeine is also one.
    In the new study, moderate coffee drinkers (those who consumed two or three cups a day) raised their risk of having a heart attack by 60% by drinking a cup of coffee.

    I'm not saying I wouldn't drink coffee for fear of a heart-attack, but I also wouldn't call it propaganda when someone tells me caffeine can trigger a heart attack.


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    #43
    Diabhal Beag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,238 ✭✭✭✭Diabhal Beag


    ScumLord wrote: »
    In the same way even a small meteor can kill you if you're unlucky enough to be standing at the exact spot where it lands. Two reported deaths isn't a good enough reason to ban anything, two deaths in billions is still one of the lowest risks you can take.
    Typical. Ignoring the fact that since the Deep Impact Legislation of 1998 that small meteors have been banned from this atmosphere.


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    #44
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Conclusions—Smoking marijuana is a rare trigger of acute myocardial infarction.
    It also says..
    Understanding the mechanism through which marijuana causes infarction may provide insight into the triggering of myocardial infarction by this and other, more common stressors.

    We're also overlooking another drug that was likely in the equation: Tobacco.


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    #45
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Even at 21 years of age it both amuses and saddens me that people can freely admit to breaking that law on the internet and never be prosecuted.

    Needless to say the complacency culture in this country has gone way too far. A nation-wide crackdown on cannabis use is long overdue. Starting with that whiny little stoner from Roscommon in the Dail.


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    #46
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Days 298


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Even at 21 years of age it both amuses and saddens me that people can freely admit to breaking that law on the internet and never be prosecuted.

    Needless to say the complacency culture in this country has gone way too far. A nation-wide crackdown on cannabis use is long overdue. Starting with that whiny little stoner from Roscommon in the Dail.

    Dont be so sure. I openly admitted to parking on a double yellow line on the internet. Im locked up for life now.


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    #47
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    ScumLord wrote: »
    It also says..



    We're also overlooking another drug that was likely in the equation: Tobacco.

    Sure - agreed 100%. My only point is that I don't consider this propaganda. It's true.


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    #48
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Days 298


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Sure - agreed 100%. My only point is that I don't consider this propaganda. It's true.

    I question the authenticity of a Devout Christian smoking an illegal substance indoors to get to sleep. Was she really devout?


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    #49
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Sure - agreed 100%. My only point is that I don't consider this propaganda. It's true.
    No, it not propaganda, and like I said before I accept the pathologist has presented the facts and not his opinion. I would still like his work looked into more as this is something new so I think we need to know more.


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    #50
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Days 298 wrote: »
    I question the authenticity of a Devout Christian smoking an illegal substance indoors to get to sleep. Was she really devout?

    I'm not very well versed on the bible, but I can't imagine they put much value in obeying the law of man. Wasn't Jesus a convicted criminal who was condemned to death for his crimes?

    I don't know if the bible has a stance against weed. Alcohol is consumed, so I'd think an occasional joint would be okay? Particularly if it was used to get some sleep verse to get 'smashed' and party.


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    #51
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I'm not very well versed on the bible, but I can't imagine they put much value in obeying the law of man. Wasn't Jesus a convicted criminal who was condemned to death for his crimes?
    .
    "Give onto Ceaser what is Ceaser's" the big J.

    Christians are told to respect the rule of law while they live.


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    #52
    MonstaMash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭MonstaMash


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Even at 21 years of age it both amuses and saddens me that people can freely admit to breaking that law on the internet and never be prosecuted.

    Needless to say the complacency culture in this country has gone way too far. A nation-wide crackdown on cannabis use is long overdue. Starting with that whiny little stoner from Roscommon in the Dail.
    If ever a face-palm smiley was needed...


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    #53
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    MonstaMash wrote: »
    If ever a face-palm smiley was needed...
    That would be a second party facepalm. If you're going to try and insult me at least get it right..


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    #54
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    So, will I accept the trained professional's opinion i.e. the pathologist or some internet poster with an agenda? Hmm, I think I'll go with the trained professional.


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    #55
    teacherhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 666 ✭✭✭teacherhead


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I'm not very well versed on the bible, but I can't imagine they put much value in obeying the law of man. Wasn't Jesus a convicted criminal who was condemned to death for his crimes?

    I don't know if the bible has a stance against weed. Alcohol is consumed, so I'd think an occasional joint would be okay? Particularly if it was used to get some sleep verse to get 'smashed' and party.

    i recall several people getting stoned in the bible..... So maybe.

    in any case if the dead out christian died from cannibas do be it. I don't know why drug users feel the need to defend their drug taking if they're so convinced its right.

    i see young kids in schools who don't know which way is up cos their brains are fried, maybe caused by other drugs, it started with a joint. So i think that making it all out to be harmless is hardly accurate either....


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    #56
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    teacherhead wrote: »
    i recall several people getting stoned in the bible..... So maybe.

    in any case if the dead out christian died from cannibas do be it. I don't know why drug users feel the need to defend their drug taking if they're so convinced its right.

    i see young kids in schools who don't know which way is up cos their brains are fried, maybe caused by other drugs, it started with a joint. So i think that making it all out to be harmless is hardly accurate either....

    No it didn't, the gateway theory is ignorant scaremongering and has been proven as such by any reputable study every done on it


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    #57
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    No it didn't, the gateway theory is ignorant scaremongering and has been proven as such by any reputable study every done on it

    Can you give me an example of such a reputable source? Not some scruffy hippy, a report from a certified professional please. You'll tell us that it is harmless next!


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    #58
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    COYW wrote: »
    Can you give me an example of such a reputable source? Not some scruffy hippy, a report from a certified professional please.
    tobacco is the real gateway drug and not just because it's the first drug young people interact with.

    http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/november2011/11212011nicotine.htm
    Nicotine, the researchers found, makes the brain more susceptible to cocaine addiction.


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    #59
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    COYW wrote: »
    Can you give me an example of such a reputable source? Not some scruffy hippy, a report from a certified professional please. You'll tell us that it is harmless next!

    tbh I couldn't be arsed considering you're already descending into ignorant generalisations and have already started putting words in my mouth

    Enjoy the hockey though


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    #60
    teacherhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 666 ✭✭✭teacherhead


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    No it didn't, the gateway theory is ignorant scaremongering and has been proven as such by any reputable study every done on it

    if I'm talking to a kid and they tell me the first experience of drug use they encountered was cannibas ill take their word for it.

    i didn't say every smoker becomes a crack addict. I didn't say it will make you take different drugs.


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    #61
    PucaMama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    ScumLord wrote: »
    tobacco is the real gateway drug and not just because it's the first drug young people interact with.

    http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/november2011/11212011nicotine.htm

    They didnt ask about tobacco


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