When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

jca

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Why can't they increase the 20Mb upload? Your line is well capable it seems.

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 14 days: 1 hour: 45 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 20.549 Mbps 51.280 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 20.479 Mbps 51.197 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 11.2 dB 14.0 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: 1.1 dBm 12.0 dBm
Receive Power: -18.0 dBm -4.1 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 19.2 dB 16.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 32.878 Mbps 88.204 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 4.8 25.9 39.1 N/A 14.0 33.6 51.4
Signal Attenuation(dB): 4.8 25.6 38.4 N/A 11.0 33.3 51.4
SNR Margin(dB): 11.1 11.2 11.2 N/A 14.1 14.1 14.0
Transmit Power(dBm):-13.6 - 4.1 - 0.6 N/A 6.8 7.9 6.9
============================================================================
VDSL Counters
Downstream Upstream
Since Link time = 45 min 51 sec
FEC: 1737716 39384
CRC: 435 5
ES: 146 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 21 sec
FEC: 1092 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 669 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 46 min 21 sec
FEC: 8239 105
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 111191 3082
CRC: 11 0
ES: 4 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Total time = 1 days 1 hours 46 min 21 sec
FEC: 1737716 39384
CRC: 435 5
ES: 146 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 30 30
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
============================================================================
I don't know to be honest. My stats at present.

jca

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Why shouldn't you be complaining?

Post your stats from your router's configuration page.

Here's a tidier version of my stats.
============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 14 days: 1 hour: 56 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 20.549 Mbps 51.280 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 20.479 Mbps 51.197 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 11.2 dB 14.0 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: 1.1 dBm 12.0 dBm
Receive Power: -18.0 dBm -4.1 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 19.2 dB 16.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 32.897 Mbps 88.204 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 4.8 25.9 39.1 N/A 14.0 33.6 51.4
Signal Attenuation(dB): 4.8 25.6 38.3 N/A 11.0 33.3 51.4
SNR Margin(dB): 11.2 11.2 11.2 N/A 13.9 14.1 13.9
Transmit Power(dBm):-13.6 - 4.1 - 0.6 N/A 6.8 7.9 6.9
============================================================================

FaganJr

Ah Found it!

Now what can ye tell me about my connection? Reckon I'm about 500-600m from Cab.

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 52 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 15.418 Mbps 50.268 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 15.358 Mbps 50.170 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 12.6 dB 11.2 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: 3.1 dBm 11.2 dBm
Receive Power: -17.2 dBm -8.6 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 20.4 dB 19.8 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 28.525 Mbps 77.268 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 5.1 27.3 40.9 N/A 14.7 34.9 54.2
Signal Attenuation(dB): 5.1 26.8 39.7 N/A 11.9 34.6 54.2
SNR Margin(dB): 13.1 12.7 12.6 N/A 11.2 11.2 11.2
Transmit Power(dBm):-12.5 - 2.6 1.6 N/A 3.2 7.9 6.9

Nonoperational

An attenuation of 19 puts you further than that.

Jesus there seems to be some pretty impressive results from the vectored cabinets. I must say this rollout continues to impress me. Hope they have adequate backhaul for everyone now.

AlanS181824

I wonder when they'll release the new profiles. Hopefully again I get Fibre there'll be some new packages that might actually be able to compete with UPC.

ED E

The profiles have been available to line ops for over a week in vectored areas and prequal tests in said areas now show vectored speeds.

SpaceTime

Seems vectoring was switched on at my cabinet overnight.

28.773 Mbps 72.340 Mbps

Previously was about 58 Mbit/s

Wellington Road Exchange area in Cork.

  VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     10.297 Mbps       41.116 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     10.239 Mbps       40.956 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       18.9 dB           14.2 dB
            Actual Delay:          4 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        7.4 dBm           9.8 dBm
           Receive Power:      -14.0 dBm          -9.2 dBm
              Actual INP:        2.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       21.5 dB           19.0 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     28.773 Mbps       72.340 Mbps
   VDSL Band Status    U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  5.9    31.0    46.5     N/A    15.6    39.2    61.0   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  5.9    30.3    45.9     N/A    12.6    38.8    61.2   
        SNR Margin(dB): 19.6    18.4    19.2     N/A    14.2    14.3    14.1   
   Transmit Power(dBm):- 8.3     0.5     6.3     N/A     3.3     7.7     1.9   
============================================================================

Real world speed hasn't changed at all though - it's still hovering at around 40Mbit/s the major change has been the attainable speed went up on the modem stats.

red_bairn

Apparently there was suppose to be some change for today on Eircom's network. I wonder was there a change in the majority of exchanges with vectoring switched on.

SpaceTime

red_bairn wrote: »

Apparently there was suppose to be some change for today on Eircom's network. I wonder was there a change in the majority of exchanges with vectoring switched on.

From what I gather it's actually on a cabinet-by-cabinet basis. The exchanges don't really have anything to do with managing the cabinets.

They could be following cabinet serial numbers, or doing it geographically but it doesn't necessarily follow that it will be exchange-by-exchange.

There's probably some Huawei system managing the cabinet firmware centrally somewhere.

All that's in the exchanges is an aggregation node which is just a big fibre router basically and a connection to the core network. There maybe hand-over points for the other service providers in larger exchanges too i.e. this is where your data would pass over to Vodafone, Magenet, Digiweb etc etc.

With a rollout like this, you'd probably do it on a small scale first, then do large numbers of cabinets (possibly not all in the same area) to avoid disruption if the firmware didn't update properly or there was some kind of software glitch.

Looks like it all went very smoothly though.

My guess is that they'll now run some kind of test facility to establish new line speeds which might take a while. It looks like they're sticking to the profiles people are on for the moment.

You can't just crank up everyone's speed on DSL-based services as a significant % of lines could suddenly become unstable and you would create a tech support nightmare. So, I guess you have to get the cabinets to re-assess the lines or something like that.

Also, they're not selling new speeds yet, so I would assume those new profiles have to filter down to retail products too.

red_bairn

SpaceTime wrote: »

From what I gather it's actually on a cabinet-by-cabinet basis. The exchanges don't really have anything to do with managing the cabinets.

There's probably some Huawei system managing the cabinet firmware centrally somewhere.

All that's in the exchanges is an aggregation node which is just a big fibre router basically.

Ah fair enough, It must be about the issues people have been having with congestion during the evenings on all the products. Last month and January, we had been badly affected some days with drops in speed and massive pings. Worse than 56k.

As one of the others said, it's probably got to do with links and the nodes that they are working on.

Do they have to test vectoring individually for each cabinet? How long would that take?

SpaceTime

red_bairn wrote: »

Ah fair enough, It must be about the issues people have been having with congestion during the evenings on all the products. Last month and January, we had been badly affected some days with drops in speed and massive pings. Worse than 56k.

As one of the others said, it's probably got to do with links and the nodes that they are working on.

Do they have to test vectoring individually for each cabinet? How long would that take?

Other than Huawei, I don't think anyone could answer that one. I would assume the cabinets can automatically test for stability and will be updating some database of what's possible for each line that will eventually filter down to customer services or will result in an automatic speed 'bump' up to a higher profile.

It could quite possibly happen instantly, but it just takes a while for eircom and other operators to start activating services on different profiles.

Were you having problems on ADSL (old-school), ADSL/ADSL2+ on NGN or FTTC/VDSL (e-fibre) products?

red_bairn

SpaceTime wrote: »

Other than Huawei, I don't think anyone could answer that one. I would assume the cabinets can automatically test for stability and will be updating some database of what's possible for each line that will eventually filter down to customer services or will result in an automatic speed 'bump' up to a higher profile.

It could quite possibly happen instantly, but it just takes a while for eircom and other operators to start activating services on different profiles.

Were you having problems on ADSL (old-school), ADSL/ADSL2+ on NGN or FTTC/VDSL (e-fibre) products?

We were originally on ADSL via NGN at the Greystones exchange and I requested that we'd be bumped up to ADSL2+ when I found out that it was free to be setup on it. We had no issues until Christmas time and early this year.

Now I'd like to know from some official why we can't get eFibre in our estate although others can. With none of this "distance" bull. My mates family lives at the top of the estate, approxiamtely 100m from the cabinet and they can't get it, yet another neighbour at about 400-500m can get it. Dad always looks at me asking when we can get it and I can't answer because none of the Eircom Wholesale folk can talk to customers individually.

/end rant

crawler

red_bairn wrote: »

We were originally on ADSL via NGN at the Greystones exchange and I requested that we'd be bumped up to ADSL2+ when I found out that it was free to be setup on it. We had no issues until Christmas time and early this year.

Now I'd like to know from some official why we can't get eFibre in our estate although others can. With none of this "distance" bull. My mates family lives at the top of the estate, approxiamtely 100m from the cabinet and they can't get it, yet another neighbour at about 400-500m can get it. Dad always looks at me asking when we can get it and I can't answer because none of the Eircom Wholesale folk can talk to customers individually.

/end rant

Are all the cabinets in the estate active for VDSL?

red_bairn

crawler wrote: »

Are all the cabinets in the estate active for VDSL?

There is only one cabinet for 166 houses. It is at the entrance to our estate and people on the main road have no use of it according some other folk.

SpaceTime

red_bairn wrote: »

We were originally on ADSL via NGN at the Greystones exchange and I requested that we'd be bumped up to ADSL2+ when I found out that it was free to be setup on it. We had no issues until Christmas time and early this year.

Now I'd like to know from some official why we can't get eFibre in our estate although others can. With none of this "distance" bull. My mates family lives at the top of the estate, approxiamtely 100m from the cabinet and they can't get it, yet another neighbour at about 400-500m can get it. Dad always looks at me asking when we can get it and I can't answer because none of the Eircom Wholesale folk can talk to customers individually.

/end rant

Unfortunately, what it comes down to is that no telephone network anywhere in the world was built with FTTC technologies in mind. You're talking about local wiring systems that go back for decades, and predate the internet, and even any notion of digital telecommunications services, never mind FTTC. The wiring in your estate would be the same age as the houses and different methodologies were used in different places over the decades.

In most areas, they did use PCP cabinets to make the final connection to end users because it was more flexible for maintenance, installation and repair.
So, a bundle of wires arrives from the exchange to each cabinet and it's cross connected to lines that run to each building. In a setup like that, all they had to do was add the new fibre cabinet next to the existing one and connect up the lines.

In some other setups, you may find that your wiring was done underground entirely where bundles of wires arrive from the exchange to a series of underground vaults and individual homes are wired to special waterproof 'break out' connectors in those instead of a cabinet.

You also get setups in ribbon development (houses along long roads) where lines run either underground / overhead as a bundle of a few hundred wires in a cable and each house picks of a single pair. So, there'd be a junction on each pole / vault and some kind of a way of tapping into that bundle of wires.

In areas like that, they need to actually do very significant civil engineering and wiring work before they could enable e-fibre services.

In ribbon developments it might not even be possible or practical at all as the houses are too spread out along a long line and FTTC is designed to work radially (with a node in the centre where the homes are relatively equidistant from it)

The local copper network is basically just copper wires. The technology hasn't changed at all over 100 years. What has changed is the type of signals being fed into it.

i.e.

1920s-80: analogue voice services from electromechanical switches.
80s onwards : digital switches (still analogue voice though)
early 90s: ISDN - first 100% digital service direct to end users (still exchange based)
00s : ADSL (still exchange based)
2013: VDSL2 - first distributed system that wasn't exchange-based.

So, basically this is the first time ever that anything has been put in that significantly modifies the way the copper wiring is used.

FTTC was only really considered from about the mid 2000s onwards. So it's only sheer luck that the infrastructure happens to fit with it!

michaelotoole

It looks like each cabinet can handle 188 lines... at least that's what a video I watched appeared to indicate... (allowing for the fact it was some kind of training video from the UK, the cabinet looks identical but I guess they may be different)...

What's the correlation between the Line Rate & Attainable Net Data Rate:
For example, my Line rate is: 20.549 Mbps & 71.812 Mbps and my attainable rate is: 28.640 Mbps & 97.012 Mbps
My download is almost always: 67Mbps and up barely exceeds 15 or 16 Mbps with attenuation of: 9.6 dB up & 10.3 dB down...

Being less than 300 meters from the cabinet, why can't I get closer to the 97.012Mbps, is the limit set to 71.812Mbps?
Even if vectoring increases the attainable rate to over 100Mbps, will I see any actual improvements?


In theory if ppl posted the before and after speeds we could calculate the impact of vectoring for Joe average...
With enough information we could calculate average line attenuation per meter and possibly increase in speed one should expect...

Never had any use for statistical analysis before it could be of some benefit
Mike

ED E

michaelotoole wrote: »

It looks like each cabinet can handle 188 lines... at least that's what a video I watched appeared to indicate... (allowing for the fact it was some kind of training video from the UK, the cabinet looks identical but I guess they may be different)...

What's the correlation between the Line Rate & Attainable Net Data Rate:
For example, my Line rate is: 20.549 Mbps & 71.812 Mbps and my attainable rate is: 28.640 Mbps & 97.012 Mbps
My download is almost always: 67Mbps and up barely exceeds 15 or 16 Mbps with attenuation of: 9.6 dB up & 10.3 dB down...

Being less than 300 meters from the cabinet, why can't I get closer to the 97.012Mbps, is the limit set to 71.812Mbps?
Even if vectoring increases the attainable rate to over 100Mbps, will I see any actual improvements?


In theory if ppl posted the before and after speeds we could calculate the impact of vectoring for Joe average...
With enough information we could calculate average line attenuation per meter and possibly increase in speed one should expect...

Never had any use for statistical analysis before it could be of some benefit
Mike

Think of the attainable as you taking your car onto the motorway and slamming on the accelerator. Sure your car can do (just for example) 140Kph, but you wouldnt drive it max revs and max speed would you? Same goes for DSL products, the attainables a reasonable indication of the very peak sync speed, but for stability you drop back a bit so that little bursts of noise dont cause you to instantly disconnect.

Typically as you bring the actual sync speed up attainables fall off a little so it'd have to be checked on your line but its reasonably likely to make a 90Mb profile. If your cab has vectoring enabled your ISP can apply that today, if not you'll have to wait for vectoring to be enabled. Right now you're on a 70Mb profile so thats the highest speed the port in the cab will allow you to do.

seanp_25

Anyone know if I need to restart my router after vectoring is enabled? Or will the switch restart the connection automatically?

allen175

There is not need to restart, the cabs get updated and rebooted over night. you need to contact your ISP to get your profile changed.

wheresmybeaver

I've bridged my Vodafone vdsl modem to a different router, i did this back in november. I assume i therefore haven't received the latest firmware upgrade for the modem - do i need to reset the modem to get this? How long would it take for the update to be applied? I don't want to find myself either (a) losing my stable connection in the coming weeks or (b) getting either my modem or cabinet blacklisted by eircom or Vodafone because of my bridging requirements!

red_bairn

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

I've bridged my Vodafone vdsl modem to a different router, i did this back in november. I assume i therefore haven't received the latest firmware upgrade for the modem - do i need to reset the modem to get this? How long would it take for the update to be applied? I don't want to find myself either (a) losing my stable connection in the coming weeks or (b) getting either my modem or cabinet blacklisted by eircom or Vodafone because of my bridging requirements!

There is no reason for you to upgrade your modem unless you have issues with it.

fat-tony

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

I've bridged my Vodafone vdsl modem to a different router, i did this back in november. I assume i therefore haven't received the latest firmware upgrade for the modem - do i need to reset the modem to get this? How long would it take for the update to be applied? I don't want to find myself either (a) losing my stable connection in the coming weeks or (b) getting either my modem or cabinet blacklisted by eircom or Vodafone because of my bridging requirements!

Why don't you connect an ethernet cable between your PC and the VF modem and check the info/status page? If the modem firmware ends in B214 then you have the latest. Not sure if this firmware is absolutely required for vectoring - seems a bit odd that VF would roll out new modems which didn't have vectoring capability, although the new firmware seems to be reporting FEC and CRC errors differently and also has the bridging capability built-in - no secret menu messing required. There is some debate as to whether bridged modems will support vectoring and therefore may be blacklisted or disabled, but I'm of the view that VF would not have provided a bridging capability in the firmware if it would defeat their management of the modem.

wheresmybeaver

red_bairn wrote: »

There is no reason for you to upgrade your modem unless you have issues with it.

I thought I would need the latest firmware which is vectoring-enabled?

fat-tony wrote: »

Why don't you connect an ethernet cable between your PC and the VF modem and check the info/status page? If the modem firmware ends in B214 then you have the latest. Not sure if this firmware is absolutely required for vectoring - seems a bit odd that VF would roll out new modems which didn't have vectoring capability, although the new firmware seems to be reporting FEC and CRC errors differently and also has the bridging capability built-in - no secret menu messing required. There is some debate as to whether bridged modems will support vectoring and therefore may be blacklisted or disabled, but I'm of the view that VF would not have provided a bridging capability in the firmware if it would defeat their management of the modem.

Exactly, if there's any chance of my modem being blacklisted (and possibly being without a connection for a few days while I try to get it sorted - not sure what's involved) then I'd like to avoid it. I'll try connecting the laptop directly to the modem later to check the firmware version. Do I need to set a manual IP on the laptop, and how do I know the IP address of the modems webUI?

brian ireland

How do we find out if its available in our area. Is it a case of just ringing VF and asking? or is there a list of cabinets somewhere.

michaelotoole

ED E wrote: »

Right now you're on a 70Mb profile so thats the highest speed the port in the cab will allow you to do.

Thanks ED E...

To be honest, I don't have any issues with my connection speed. I'm just curious... Lets assume I pay for 70Mbps and I'm caped at 70Mbps... then allowing for the caps algorithm, I would never reach 70Mbps...

Working backwards, such calculation requires an average component in excess of the max, but if the cap is applied at 70Mbps, then the average is never attainable... It's mathematically impossible...

It's pure semantics on my behalf, not a complaint or anything like it, I just wonder how the concept of "up to" has been derived if the limit is paced at the 70Mbps...

crawler

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

I've bridged my Vodafone vdsl modem to a different router, i did this back in november. I assume i therefore haven't received the latest firmware upgrade for the modem - do i need to reset the modem to get this? How long would it take for the update to be applied? I don't want to find myself either (a) losing my stable connection in the coming weeks or (b) getting either my modem or cabinet blacklisted by eircom or Vodafone because of my bridging requirements!

If you bridge your modem on the older software then the modem cant see the TR69 server and the PPP session terminates on the device you bought. Therefore the modem wont update.

When vectoring goes live the modem wont support vectoring and you wont benefit form the new speeds and if it causes interference it will be disconnected immediately.

What I would suggest is

1) Unbridge the modem
2) restart it
3) Leave it 30 minutes or so
4) it will have a software version ending B214
5) Put it back in bridge mode (supported on B214 anyway)

Hope that helps

fat-tony

But @crawler - if the modem won't support vectoring when it's bridged it will be disabled by the DSLAM and therefore there is no point in bridging???
Are you 100% sure that the modem is managed only by TR-069 and not by any other side-channel technique and can therefore participate in vectoring and possible firmware updates?
Seems odd that VF would enable customer initiated bridging in the Huawei modem/router firmware if it resulted in VF's inability to manage the essential functions on the modem side

ED E

michaelotoole wrote: »

Thanks ED E...

To be honest, I don't have any issues with my connection speed. I'm just curious... Lets assume I pay for 70Mbps and I'm caped at 70Mbps... then allowing for the caps algorithm, I would never reach 70Mbps...

Working backwards, such calculation requires an average component in excess of the max, but if the cap is applied at 70Mbps, then the average is never attainable... It's mathematically impossible...

It's pure semantics on my behalf, not a complaint or anything like it, I just wonder how the concept of "up to" has been derived if the limit is paced at the 70Mbps...

There are set profiles. Its something like 7 9 12 18 24 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100(BKs post has them somewhere). You are set to the one just down from where your max attainable would be.

To explain:
Scenario 1: 85Mb attainables, 90Mb profile. Modem will sync around 85Mb but will be going as fast as it can and there will be no margain for error. In most cases this will drop the connection very regularly as there is no noise headroom.
Scenario 2: 85Mb attainables, 80Mb profile. Syncs at 80 and has more noise headroom. Should be very stable.

In your case though, 70 was the highest profile on the system when you ordered so thats what you're on. You just need to be reprofiled.

Also syncs arent an even 70000kps, its twos complement so it'll be 71.xxx Mbps, and with DSL at least it'll sometimes sync a few kbps either side of the profile.

ED E

fat-tony wrote: »

But @crawler - if the modem won't support vectoring when it's bridged it will be disabled by the DSLAM and therefore there is no point in bridging???
Are you 100% sure that the modem is managed only by TR-069 and not by any other side-channel technique and can therefore participate in vectoring and possible firmware updates?
Seems odd that VF would enable customer initiated bridging in the Huawei modem/router firmware if it resulted in VF's inability to manage the essential functions on the modem side

Bridging is 100% compatible with vectoring once the FW update has been done in advance. Otherwise businesses would tell them to F'ck right off as many use a Sonicwall or similar to run their PPPoE session and manage all wan aspects.

fat-tony

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

... and how do I know the IP address of the modems webUI?

The default address is 192.168.1.1

fat-tony

ED E wrote: »

Bridging is 100% compatible with vectoring once the FW update has been done in advance. Otherwise businesses would tell them to F'ck right off as many use a Sonicwall or similar to run their PPPoE session and manage all wan aspects.

That's what I would have thought, that vectoring would work in bridged mode. The implication in various posts is that vectoring would not work in bridged mode and is causing some panic.
If VF have released the initial batch of Huawei modem/routers without vectoring support and are dependent on a successful firmware upgrade to enable it, then that's just plain crazy! VF were requested for a changelog for the B214 firmware and have yet to oblige. Are you assuming that the primary reason for the firmware upgrade was to enable vectoring or do you have a source of info for what it contains, other than the obvious UI changes, packet error counts and NAT logging?

crawler

fat-tony wrote: »

But @crawler - if the modem won't support vectoring when it's bridged it will be disabled by the DSLAM and therefore there is no point in bridging???
Are you 100% sure that the modem is managed only by TR-069 and not by any other side-channel technique and can therefore participate in vectoring and possible firmware updates?
Seems odd that VF would enable customer initiated bridging in the Huawei modem/router firmware if it resulted in VF's inability to manage the essential functions on the modem side

Nope - I am guessing the new software supports briding for that very reason. the older firmware did not until the vectoring software was optimised, as would be normal.

This is also why VF didnt support bridging in the initial firmware I am guessing but you'd need to ask them

It's easily solved anywsay for folks who did manually bridge the modem themselves.

SpaceTime

Vectoring and bridging have nothing to do with each other. The problem is that Vodafone's modem's onboard management software can't be contacted when the device is bridged.

That means you're not getting a software update.

You'd think they would have shipped them with this enabled from day one !

Vico1612

fat-tony wrote: »

That's what I would have thought, that vectoring would work in bridged mode. The implication in various posts is that vectoring would not work in bridged mode and is causing some panic.
If VF have released the initial batch of Huawei modem/routers without vectoring support and are dependent on a successful firmware upgrade to enable it, then that's just plain crazy! VF were requested for a changelog for the B214 firmware and have yet to oblige. Are you assuming that the primary reason for the firmware upgrade was to enable vectoring or do you have a source of info for what it contains, other than the obvious UI changes, packet error counts and NAT logging?

As I didn't get any feedback on Boards from VF about the B214 firmware, I posted on their community site and was told that B214 is indeed for Vectoring

Nonoperational

fat-tony wrote: »

That's what I would have thought, that vectoring would work in bridged mode. The implication in various posts is that vectoring would not work in bridged mode and is causing some panic.
If VF have released the initial batch of Huawei modem/routers without vectoring support and are dependent on a successful firmware upgrade to enable it, then that's just plain crazy! VF were requested for a changelog for the B214 firmware and have yet to oblige. Are you assuming that the primary reason for the firmware upgrade was to enable vectoring or do you have a source of info for what it contains, other than the obvious UI changes, packet error counts and NAT logging?

I never saw that implication anywhere. The implication was that the software wouldn't update if the modem was bridged.

wheresmybeaver

Just reset my bridged Vodafone modem there (paperclip in reset button).

Within about a minute of the router being up and running and before I even had a chance to login and check the firmware version the router did an automatic reset, presumably after receiving the firmware update.

After I logged in I saw the software version ending in B214. And like others have said Bridging is now actually supported in this version. They evidently didn't want many customers bridging before the vectoring software was finalised.

Thanks for everyone's help with this, didn't want to risk losing my vdsl connection and having to deal with Vodafone technical support <shudder>

red_bairn

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

Just reset my bridged Vodafone modem there (paperclip in reset button).

Within about a minute of the router being up and running and before I even had a chance to login and check the firmware version the router did an automatic reset, presumably after receiving the firmware update.

After I logged in I saw the software version ending in B214. And like others have said Bridging is now actually supported in this version. They evidently didn't want many customers bridging before the vectoring software was finalised.

Thanks for everyone's help with this, didn't want to risk losing my vdsl connection and having to deal with Vodafone technical support <shudder>

Yeah sorry for earlier where I presumed that the router didn't require a firmware update. I presumed the vectoring was already set on the shipped VDSL modem. I heard from another poster about the FTTC being upgraded. Didn't realise both needed to be sorted.

fat-tony

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

Just reset my bridged Vodafone modem there (paperclip in reset button).

Within about a minute of the router being up and running and before I even had a chance to login and check the firmware version the router did an automatic reset, presumably after receiving the firmware update.

After I logged in I saw the software version ending in B214. And like others have said Bridging is now actually supported in this version. They evidently didn't want many customers bridging before the vectoring software was finalised.

Thanks for everyone's help with this, didn't want to risk losing my vdsl connection and having to deal with Vodafone technical support <shudder>

Did you look at the log in the modem/router? I'm still curious about this assertion that VF cannot manage the modem when it is in bridged mode. I would have thought that the software in the modem would still interrupt the user session (or use some other PVC or side-channel) to contact the VF management system (ACS) at intervals, even in bridged mode. If you can check your log, can you look back several days/weeks to see if it is still contacting the ACS? Or maybe the act of resetting the device with a paperclip deletes the log entirely. Here's a snip of my log showing when the B214 download happened:

2010-01-01 00:00:59  User Debug cms 1 HuaweiATP DSL activate successfully
2010-01-01 00:00:59  Security Notice cms 1 HuaweiATP System up
2014-03-04 02:21:47  Daemon Management cwmp 1 HuaweiATP Reboot from the WAN side.
2014-03-04 02:21:40  Daemon Management upg 0 HuaweiATP Upgrading finished: cwmp.
2014-03-04 02:21:10  Daemon Warning upg 0 HuaweiATP Upgrading beginning ...
2014-03-03 18:19:32  Daemon Management cwmp 1 HuaweiATP PERIODIC informed.

wheresmybeaver

fat-tony wrote: »

Did you look at the log in the modem/router? I'm still curious about this assertion that VF cannot manage the modem when it is in bridged mode. I would have thought that the software in the modem would still interrupt the user session (or use some other PVC or side-channel) to contact the VF management system (ACS) at intervals, even in bridged mode. If you can check your log, can you look back several days/weeks to see if it is still contacting the ACS? Or maybe the act of resetting the device with a paperclip deletes the log entirely. Here's a snip of my log showing when the B214 download happened:

2010-01-01 00:00:59  User Debug cms 1 HuaweiATP DSL activate successfully
2010-01-01 00:00:59  Security Notice cms 1 HuaweiATP System up
2014-03-04 02:21:47  Daemon Management cwmp 1 HuaweiATP Reboot from the WAN side.
2014-03-04 02:21:40  Daemon Management upg 0 HuaweiATP Upgrading finished: cwmp.
2014-03-04 02:21:10  Daemon Warning upg 0 HuaweiATP Upgrading beginning ...
2014-03-03 18:19:32  Daemon Management cwmp 1 HuaweiATP PERIODIC informed.

I never looked in the log, but from my experience with routers I would say the log was reset when I did the factory reset. The fact that the router was alive for a minute or two after the reset and then performed it's own self-restart leads me to believe that the firmware was not received and / or applied until I was out of bridged mode.

I did notice when I was putting the modem back into bridged mode that I had to disable the VOIP and TR-069 services before the setting could be applied. I assume TR-069 is the protocol Vodafone use to send firmware updates, so this being disabled blocks the update. And anyway the PPPoE connection terminates with my own router, so there'd be no point in bridging the TR-069 service.

fat-tony

Yes - TR-069 support requires a session with VF's control system, but I wasn't sure if the modem firmware was able to do this on a separate PVC outside the PPPoE session which your router is controlling. I couldn't find any hard fact references in the TR-069 spec or elsewhere that states categorically that bridging kills TR-069 support.

You're saying that the modem firmware wouldn't accept the bridging setting until you explicitly disabled TR-069? If so, that would seem to confirm it.:)

Vico1612

Looks like VF have bumped my line with Vectoring ...

fat-tony

Very good:) I keep checking mine every day, even though it's excellent at 70Mb:P

Vico1612

AlanS181824

Vico1612 wrote: »

Wow! That's a great download, pitty the upload isn't better though.

OneEightSeven

Vico1612 wrote: »

Download one of those 1.3GB files from HEAnet and take a screenshot: http://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/linuxmint.com/testing/

Vico1612

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Download one of those 1.3GB filesfrom HEAnet and take a screenshot: http://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/linuxmint.com/testing/

Already done :-)
Won't tell you how long it took .... don't want to ruin your evening ...

Less than 2 mins

dxhound2005

Vico1612 wrote: »

This is the first proof I have seen that vectoring is in operation anywhere.

dxhound2005

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Wow! That's a great download, pitty the upload isn't better though.

Upload is never going to be more than 20 at present.

OcocO

Vico1612 wrote: »

Already done :-)
Won't tell you how long it took .... don't want to ruin your evening ...

Less than 2 mins

<green with envy>

brian ireland

Is there any way to find out if it available in your area?