Flooding around Limerick

yankeecandle

Hi..
Im travelling to limerick next weekend. Are these floods as bad as they look? Should I cancel my plans as I dont fancy sitting in hotel for 2 full days...
Wer staying just off henry street but have plans to do all the touristy things....
Any advice would be great...
Thanks

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

kerry4sam

yankeecandle wrote: »

Hi..
Im travelling to limerick next weekend. Are these floods as bad as they look? Should I cancel my plans as I dont fancy sitting in hotel for 2 full days...
Wer staying just off henry street but have plans to do all the touristy things....
Any advice would be great...
Thanks

Hi there yankeecandle,

I've moved your thread from our Travel forum over into the Limerick forum as it is localised.

Thanks,
kerry4sam

Poxyshamrock

None of the city centre was flooded. It was only housing estates on King's Island and Corbally that suffered. The only hotel that was at any risk was the Absolute but it's fine.

zulutango

The ESB are beginning to divert large volumes of water down the old course of the Shannon River. The high levels of rainfall lately have forced them to do this.

What amazes me is that they don't keep the levels at Parteen Weir lower in winter time so as to pre-empt this scenario. Their statement suggests that they won't accept responsibility if there is flooding, but that's being quite disingenuous, imo. If they had a lower level at Parteen Weir up until now then the risk of flooding would be a lot less. Now there's going to be large volumes backing up on the already saturated tributaries.

Following the flooding in 2014 (and previously 2009) there were calls for one agency to manage the flood risk, but has that happened? Of course not. Now the ESB shrug their shoulders and say 'nothing to do with us'.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/292966/esb-increases-discharge-at-parteen-weir.html

kilburn

If anyone does get flooded i hope they pursue the ESB through the courts as this attitude is totally unacceptable.

Mc Love

Flooding upstream if they leave it closed, flooding downstream if they do. They don't do this intentionally.

zulutango

Mc Love wrote:

Flooding upstream if they leave it closed, flooding downstream if they do. They don't do this intentionally.

There's a third and better option. Don't keep the levels so high in winter time! By keeping them high they're up against it to release water when the heavy rain comes. They need high levels to generate the maximum amount of electricity but it isn't right that this gets priority over the protection of homes, industry and farmland.

Vladimir Poontang

If only you could plan ahead and control the water flow and levels with dams etc....oh wait...

jaxxx

There'll certainly be some flooding after the rain tonight! Geez it's almost torrential out there.

geotrig

zulutango wrote: »

There's a third and better option. Don't keep the levels so high in winter time! By keeping them high they're up against it to release water when the heavy rain comes. They need high levels to generate the maximum amount of electricity but it isn't right that this gets priority over the protection of homes, industry and farmland.

Im sure there is a reason they dont leave the levels drop too much in the canal ive never seen it below the drop off area so there has to be a reason. either way flooding is going to happen somewhere . with the amount of rain we have seen in recent weeks ,im surprised it has flooded worse tbh

zulutango

geotrig wrote: »

Im sure there is a reason they dont leave the levels drop too much in the canal ive never seen it below the drop off area so there has to be a reason. either way flooding is going to happen somewhere . with the amount of rain we have seen in recent weeks ,im surprised it has flooded worse tbh

Higher water levels mean the ESB can generate more electricity. That is probably the reason they keep the levels high. Electricity has a high value, especially in winter time.

Now, they keep the level artificially high by holding water back at the Parteen Weir, upriver of O'Brien's Bridge. This is how most hydro stations generate electricity.

When the rain comes they have more water than they can use to generate electricity so they have to quickly release the excess down the old course of the Shannon River. And if it's a certain volume it will flood areas like Castleconnell, Clonlara, Annacotty, Plassey, Westbury, etc.

My point is that if they didn't keep the levels so high to begin with at Parteen Weir then they'd have a far better chance of releasing excess water without flooding areas downstream. The flooding doesn't just happen because of the rain. It happens because they are holding water in the system and then being forced to release it quickly when the heavy rain hits.

geotrig

I know how hydro electric plants work :rolleyes: my point is its guess work from most here . Its not kept artificialy high, it's kept at a certain level that you can see nearly year round ,which like the rest of the river gets somewhat higher when we have heavy rains. My point is ,I've never seen it lower than the "drop off points" or close and i wonder outside of electricity has there been a reason for this ? Even with out the plant ,clonlara /castleconnel etc would still flood to some extent in my opinion, rivers will burst there banks in certain area's .
The fact is ,the power plant is there a lot longer than a lot of houses in these areas ,not all of them but most.
I have no problem with building in flood areas ,when the correct path is taken. Maybe there is a lack of proper records of flood lands going back or that etc but putting the blame on the esb isnt going to solve it
Also I vaguely think i heard or read somewhere that electricity out of ardnacrusha is tiny these days ?

Cookiemunster

geotrig wrote: »

I know how hydro electric plants work :rolleyes: my point is its guess work from most here . Its not kept artificialy high, it's kept at a certain level that you can see nearly year round ,which like the rest of the river gets somewhat higher when we have heavy rains. My point is ,I've never seen it lower than the "drop off points" or close and i wonder outside of electricity has there been a reason for this ? Even with out the plant ,clonlara /castleconnel etc would still flood to some extent in my opinion, rivers will burst there banks in certain area's .
The fact is ,the power plant is there a lot longer than a lot of houses in these areas ,not all of them but most.
I have no problem with building in flood areas ,when the correct path is taken. Maybe there is a lack of proper records of flood lands going back or that etc but putting the blame on the esb isnt going to solve it
Also I vaguely think i heard or read somewhere that electricity out of ardnacrusha is tiny these days ?

It only accounts for 2% of the national grid and is only used when there's excess demand.

testicles

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zulutango

2% is a lot of power lads. It represents a lot of value to the ESB. If it wasn't they'd close the plant and allow the water levels to return to pre-1929 levels.

Not sure what you mean by excess demand, Cookiemunster. Demand is demand. It varies all the time. To maintain voltage and frequency in the grid demand has to be almost exactly matched with supply. Demand is significantly higher in winter and hydro stations like Ardnacrusha have a very quick response so it makes absolute sense for the ESB to keep the level as high as possible at this time of year. But the problem is that doing so causes an increased flood risk, as I've outlined above.

Geotrig, I agree that we shouldn't be building in flood plains, but whether we like it or not, places like Clonlara, Castleconnell, Westbury, Annacotty and Plassey are there and they're built up. The operation of Ardnacrusha has a big effect on the flood risk to these places.

zulutango

testicles wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm a mechanical engineer who studied hydro power systems!

Cookiemunster

I was on the tour last summer. They said the grid doesn't usually use 100% of capacity and Ardnacrusha is only used when theres a spike in demand.

zulutango

Yes, the reason for that is hydro stations have a very quick response, as do some gas-fired stations (by contrast to big thermal plants like Moneypoint for example). So if there's a big surge in demand (or a drop in supply from the likes of wind which are variable power generators), either expected or unexpected, then Ardnacrusha can deliver power within a few seconds which is very important if you don't want the grid to cascade to a blackout. If that happens you don't get power restored to the whole grid for weeks, i.e. it's a catastrophic situation. For Ardnacrusha to perform this role they need water levels to be high. It's not that Ardnacrusha is the only station that can do it, however. The other stations can, and so can the combined-cycle plant. The advantage to the ESB is generating power from Ardnacrusha is financial. It's very, very cheap by comparison to the others. So, there's a financial incentive for the ESB to keep the levels high and this comes with a risk of flooding on the old course of the Shannon River especially. Now, they might manage that risk perfectly, and if they do, that's great. But they can't pretend that they don't have control over the water levels and turn away when large built up areas get flooded.

osarusan

I get the argument that storing water at Parteen means that in times of flooding, there is even more water to be released, but what percentage of overall flood water is that stored water?

I mean, if they had had levels at Parteen Weir as low as possible over the last few weeks how would the current flooding look?

No flooding at all? Half as much? 75% as much as now?

db

I think there is a very real risk of flooding around the Shannon Banks area at the moment. The water levels there are very high but the flow through Castleconnel is not that heavy. This points to most of the flood water lower down coming from the Mulkear. It leaves very little room to increase the flow at Parteen Weir which based on previous floods I would estimate about 250 cumens. If that goes up to >400 cumens like in previous years I think it will overcome the defences lower down.
The other risk at the moment is the amount of water on the ground at the moment. In the Springfield area of Clonlara most of the fields are already flooded so if the river bursts the banks here the water levels will rise very quickly.
We could really do with a couple of dry weeks to allow the land up the country to dry out and the water to flow through the system. It looks like it will be mostly dry this week so that should help a bit.

kilburn

ESB increasing the release rate again today from 200 to 240 cumens.

kilburn

Easily said more difficult when your watching the water get close to your home