Prius+ 7 seater

wtawfick

wtawfick wrote: »

Lithium-ion battery nominal voltage 201.6 DC V; capacity 5Ah/1.0kWh; max output 37PS/36bhp/27kW

That's about the same as the MK II and III nimh battery, just in a smaller lighter package.

wtawfick

wtawfick wrote: »

When I test drove the Prius+, it was definitely more in keeping with the 11+ seconds for 0-100 that's mentioned in the brochure. I'd say the 9-9.5 seconds you're getting is the price I have to pay for getting a 7 seater.

As for the 170hp Touran I couldn't even find those specs. The highest available is a 2.0 TDI 140Hp DSG (automatic). That is already bringing it up to €42,000 without even factoring in the rear view camera & the sunroof (which both the Prius+ & the Citroen Grand Picasso have, at a much cheaper price). That's over 6 grand dearer than the Prius+. If I add in the sunroof & rear view camera, it'll bring the difference to 8-9 grand. You might argue that these are just gimmicks that we don't really need & I fully agree. I'm just trying to compare like for like & see what I'll get for my money.

The Touran 1.6TDI auto is only a couple grand dearer than the Prius+. When you factor in that VW have better APR finance rates (3.9% vs 7.9% for the Toyota), it actually ends up being about €500 cheaper (even taking into account the cheaper road tax of the Prius+ over the course of 3 years).

Wow 42k for the 2.0 tdi touran ? Mental !

I certainly wouldn't have the 1.6 touran !

wtawfick

Deleted User wrote: »

wtawfick wrote: »

Lithium-ion battery nominal voltage 201.6 DC V; capacity 5Ah/1.0kWh; max output 37PS/36bhp/27kW

That's about the same as the MK II and III nimh battery, just in a smaller lighter package.

The fact that it has the same output as the tried & tested previous models should be good. I'm just wondering if it should have had a bit more, to be able to cope with the added weight of the 7 seater.

RedDeadMarshal

wtawfick wrote: »

Thanks RedDeadMarshall. I got the same impression about the Citroen when I test drove it. Just cheap plastic interior. The only reason I had it in the comparison, was because it had the most gizmos, specs & options, at a cheaper price. When I drove it though, that's exactly what I felt "CHEAP". The semi-automatic gearbox was "HORRENDOUS" to say the least. That's why I thought of the full automatic 2 litre version. I put it out there to see if someone would talk me in to getting it. At least you've confirmed my fears.

You said
When you say a no no, is that because it's a hybrid, or is there another reason. I won't be using the car to tow anything. It's basically to carry around the kids & family. School runs & the occasional trip from Galway to Dublin. I don't need major towing power. The verso D4D unfortunately doesn't come in automatic. The only automatic version is a petrol engine, which will end up being even more expensive than the Prius+

Hybrid yeah too much electronics it's not enough that on my diesel Toyota 7 computers have to control the whole engine. I guess you can give it a try, but if you are afraid like me then go for the VW. Less that can go wrong and don't listen to anyone who says vw is ****. VW is vw, respected all around the world. I have a mate with an Octavia 1.6 tdi 105bhp, same one as you're looking, correct? I was amazed with the torque it doesn't pull like the old 1.9 but it's just so effortless in 6th gear at 140km/h. Oh if you are buying a tdi drive it hard which your wife wont do. Take it on the motorway at high speeds to clear the cat and never ever shift when the computer tells you to. The engine builds up carbon in the cat and it will be a costly repair. The car should tell you on the dash when it needs to be cleared, Don't ignore it good luck whichever option you go for ( not the citroen).

RedDeadMarshal

RedDeadMarshal wrote: »

Hybrid yeah too much electronics it's not enough that on my diesel Toyota 7 computers have to control the whole engine. I guess you can give it a try, but if you are afraid like me then go for the VW. Less that can go wrong and don't listen to anyone who says vw is ****. VW is vw, respected all around the world. I have a mate with an Octavia 1.6 tdi 105bhp, same one as you're looking, correct? I was amazed with the torque it doesn't pull like the old 1.9 but it's just so effortless in 6th gear at 140km/h. Oh if you are buying a tdi drive it hard which your wife wont do. Take it on the motorway at high speeds to clear the cat and never ever shift when the computer tells you to. The engine builds up carbon in the cat and it will be a costly repair. The car should tell you on the dash when it needs to be cleared, Don't ignore it good luck whichever option you go for ( not the citroen).

LOL

Less that can go wrong in a TDI ? lol funny that considering the prius is a whole lot more reliable than any TDI !

And of course you know you don;t have to worry about the (dpf) nor cat in a prius or flywheel !!!

sawdoubters

test drive them

the prius plus looks small to hold 7 looks like underpowered if it was full

RedDeadMarshal

colm_mcm wrote: »

#2.2headgasketfailure

Ok you got me but it doesn't happen to every one of them he can always go for the 2.0

RedDeadMarshal

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL

Less that can go wrong in a TDI ? lol funny that considering the prius is a whole lot more reliable than any TDI !

And of course you know you don;t have to worry about the (dpf) nor cat in a prius or flywheel !!!

never had a problem with mine except for the clutch it cant handle the tdi's torque.

wtawfick

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL

Less that can go wrong in a TDI ? lol funny that considering the prius is a whole lot more reliable than any TDI !

And of course you know you don;t have to worry about the (dpf) nor cat in a prius or flywheel !!!

Thanks Mad_Lad,

RedDeadMarshall has a good point when he said "it's just so effortless in 6th gear at 140km/h". This made me think of a question for you. How's the Prius on a long distance drive, say doing 120-140km/hr all the way from Galway to Dublin. I did test drive the car on the motorway, but that was only for less than a 5km stretch. It was just to bring it up to speed. I'm not sure about a long distance drive. Also how stable is it on the motorway (lets say in stormy & gusty winds as we had a few days ago).
The Touran that I have is pretty slow getting up to speed, but it has no problem maintaining it once it gets there. It's also a very heavy car, so quite stable on the road

TBi

I'd be surprised if a 1.8l petrol couldn't keep any car going at 80MPH. You don't need much power to keep a car going at a steady pace, you only need the power to accelerate fast. This is why turbo diesels are efficient on the motorway, the turbo (which gives the extra power for acceleration) spins down and you are effectively running on a normal 1.6/2.0 engine.

I think a diesel would be more economical than the prius going at motorway speeds (not by much mind) but the prius has much less to go wrong with it. Everyone is scared of the electronics but if you search for prius and electronics failures you'll find very little (i did a LOT of searching). It has been proven over the last 10 years to be a very reliable technology. The battery, if it needs to be replaced in 10 years, will cost about the same as a new clutch/flywheel/DPF in a diesel.

Now go and search for diesels and DPF failure, then DMF failure, then clutch failure. Then go search for injector failure. Also search for what happens to a diesel if you get washed diesel, not an expensive fix. My friend needed 3k+ to replace injectors and get a new fuel pump on his 1.6TDi octavia. Not to mention his clutch and flywheel went after 3 years of ownership.

And no one tells you about adblue. My friend bought a Seat Alhambra on my recommendation, same as a VW Sharan with 2.0TDi. He needs to top up at every service and it is very expensive.

Mad_Lad is a bit too into his Prii but he does make some very good points and after doing a lot of research i've been totally turned off the thought of a diesel. People only see the initial savings but never look or count up the hidden costs of diesel.

EDIT: Before i get jumped on, it seems you can buy adblue cheaper if you don't get it at a dealer. I'll let my buddy know, he was pissed off when he got the bill at the time but he argued until they did it for free since he'd just bought the car.

wtawfick

sawdoubters wrote: »

test drive them

the prius plus looks small to hold 7 looks like underpowered if it was full

That was my first impression when I first saw the Prius+ on the outside. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. There's no difference in cabin leg room (front seats & middle row) between the C4 Grand Picasso, the Prius+ & the Touran. In fact, I found the Prius+ to have slightly more leg room & head room for the 2 rear seats (3rd row). I sat in the back seat & brought the middle row seat all the way back. I'm 6 foot 2 & I didn't feel too cramped in the Prius+. Although the Grand Picasso looks bigger & higher, yet it was the most cramped at the back row. Most of the time it'll just be the kids in the back row, but it's good to know that it could be used for an adult if needed.

That was my impression based on what I saw & experienced myself. Not based on any official dimensions or figures.

There was only myself & my wife when we test drove the Prius+. I don't really know how it would perform if it were fully loaded. That's probably another question for Mad_Lad.

PADRAIC.M

I drove a Prius+ for about a week! and it can guarantee you when the Prius is fully loaded the motor doesn't struggle in the slightest! the MG UNIT actually has huge torque when under load, so doesn't struggle, and the Prius/prius+ has 5 year warranty on all hybrid parts, not that you would need it! One of the most trouble free cars on the road !

wtawfick

TBi wrote: »

I'd be surprised if a 1.8l petrol couldn't keep any car going at 80MPH. You don't need much power to keep a car going at a steady pace, you only need the power to accelerate fast. This is why turbo diesels are efficient on the motorway, the turbo (which gives the extra power for acceleration) spins down and you are effectively running on a normal 1.6/2.0 engine.

I think a diesel would be more economical than the prius going at motorway speeds (not by much mind) but the prius has much less to go wrong with it. Everyone is scared of the electronics but if you search for prius and electronics failures you'll find very little (i did a LOT of searching). It has been proven over the last 10 years to be a very reliable technology. The battery, if it needs to be replaced in 10 years, will cost about the same as a new clutch/flywheel/DPF in a diesel.

Now go and search for diesels and DPF failure, then DMF failure, then clutch failure. Then go search for injector failure. Also search for what happens to a diesel if you get washed diesel, not an expensive fix. My friend needed 3k+ to replace injectors and get a new fuel pump on his 1.6TDi octavia. Not to mention his clutch and flywheel went after 3 years of ownership.

And no one tells you about adblue. My friend bought a Seat Alhambra on my recommendation, same as a VW Sharan with 2.0TDi. He needs to top up at every service and it is very expensive.

Mad_Lad is a bit too into his Prii but he does make some very good points and after doing a lot of research i've been totally turned off the thought of a diesel. People only see the initial savings but never look or count up the hidden costs of diesel.

EDIT: Before i get jumped on, it seems you can buy adblue cheaper if you don't get it at a dealer. I'll let my buddy know, he was pissed off when he got the bill at the time but he argued until they did it for free since he'd just bought the car.

Thanks TBI,

I've never owned a diesel before, so this is all new to me. I've always been a petrol guy. I thought it was just a matter of switching to a diesel car & supposedly running costs would get cheaper due to better mpg & also diesel being cheaper than petrol. Didn't realise there was a lot of hidden cost there.

colm_mcm

What engine is in your touran?

wtawfick

PADRAIC.M wrote: »

I drove a Prius+ for about a week! and it can guarantee you when the Prius is fully loaded the motor doesn't struggle in the slightest! the MG UNIT actually has huge torque when under load, so doesn't struggle, and the Prius/prius+ has 5 year warranty on all hybrid parts, not that you would need it! One of the most trouble free cars on the road !

Thanks Padraic,

That's very reassuring. Did you by any chance take it on the motorway? Was it stable on the road?

wtawfick

colm_mcm wrote: »

What engine is in your touran?

My current Touran is a 2004 SE 1.6 Litre Petrol Automatic. It's 115 Bhp.

colm_mcm

wtawfick wrote: »

My current Touran is a 2004 SE 1.6 Litre Petrol Automatic. It's 115 Bhp.

You have nothing to worry about so

jimbo21

Have you looked at the VW Caddy 7 seater i have one and they are the only 7 seater that still have a lot of booth space even with the 7 seats up, have a look at mine in my adds for sale getting 0/14 soon

PADRAIC.M

wtawfick wrote: »

Thanks Padraic,

That's very reassuring. Did you by any chance take it on the motorway? Was it stable on the road?

I found it drove the same as the current Prius model, which is very solid to drive.
Sure let us know what kind of deal you are offered in galway, as I know there is 1 in stock in Nass co. Kildare

ninty9er

I've seen at least half a dozen 132 and 141 Prius+ around Cork. Must be doing something to take people out of Zafiras and Picassos

wtawfick

PADRAIC.M wrote: »

I found it drove the same as the current Prius model, which is very solid to drive.
Sure let us know what kind of deal you are offered in galway, as I know there is 1 in stock in Nass co. Kildare

Thanks Padraic. We don't go on the motorway very frequent (probably once or twice a month). But at least when we do, we'd like the car to be solid & stable on the road. Thanks for confirming that.

The dealer is ringing me tomorrow with the final pricing. I'll let you know how it goes.

wtawfick

ninty9er wrote: »

I've seen at least half a dozen 132 and 141 Prius+ around Cork. Must be doing something to take people out of Zafiras and Picassos

That's a good sign that they're starting to show on the roads. The first one I saw was the one I test drove yesterday. I probably just didn't notice them or might have been mistaking them for ordinary Prius.

The Zafira though is pretty pricey. Nearly as pricey as the Touran with worse fuel consumption. The basic Zafira Club doesn't come in automatic. Then the Zafira Tourer, the cheapest automatic is €36,000. That's the same as the Prius+ with much less options. If you add in the same options it'll go up a further 3-4 grand. It's also a pretty thirsty car. The automatic is a 2.0 CDTi 16v (165 PS), CO2 emission 159 g/km (€570 road tax), & consumption is 6.0 L/100km (47.1 mpg).

The Citroen Grand Picasso, the full automatic transmission (not the ETG Semi-automatic) only comes in the 2litre engine. This starts at €36,000 as well. It does have a lot more options than the Prius+ though.

ninty9er

Just do us all a favour and don't get a bloody white one!! A bit of variety please!!

wtawfick

ninty9er wrote: »

Just do us all a favour and don't get a bloody white one!! A bit of variety please!!

I'd rather die than be seen in a white car. Any white car.:mad:
I won't be breaking the mould though. The one the dealer has in the showroom is silver.

galwaytt

wtawfick wrote: »

I'd rather die than be seen in a white car. Any white car.:mad:
I won't be breaking the mould though. The one the dealer has in the showroom is silver.

I'll be contrarian here so: omg, anything but silver !!

wtawfick

galwaytt wrote: »

I'll be contrarian here so: omg, anything but silver !!

:D:D

BMJD

wtawfick wrote: »

This made me think of a question for you. How's the Prius on a long distance drive, say doing 120-140km/hr all the way from Galway to Dublin. I did test drive the car on the motorway, but that was only for less than a 5km stretch. It was just to bring it up to speed. I'm not sure about a long distance drive. Also how stable is it on the motorway (lets say in stormy & gusty winds as we had a few days ago).

My Prius is perfectly fine at 120-140 km/h, it would be doing around 50mpg at that speed though, perhaps a little less on an incline or in a headwind. I generally keep it at an indicated 110 km/h on cruise control on the motorway and I average around 60mpg, at the expense of 60 seconds or so of my commute
There is plenty of power to accelerate at those speeds too if needed.

September1

Galway to Dublin in Prius with cruise control at maximum legal speed (which is 120 kph with exception of Athlone bypass) would get 46 mpg or better. Worst results I got when using it to drive short distances on cold engine during winter, which would be about 42 - however if your engine is warm that improves significantly.

It is though not most exciting car to drive ;-)

wtawfick

September1 wrote: »

Galway to Dublin in Prius with cruise control at maximum legal speed (which is 120 kph with exception of Athlone bypass) would get 46 mpg or better. Worst results I got when using it to drive short distances on cold engine during winter, which would be about 42 - however if your engine is warm that improves significantly.

It is though not most exciting car to drive ;-)

That's interesting to know. Throughout the winter on weekdays, my wife would be leaving 7:30-8:00am to drop off the kids & then go to work. I was under the impression that short distance runs is where I'd get the most fuel efficiency as it should use the electric component more (at low speeds) & also charge it more with the braking. Obviously now, I need to factor in that there won't be a huge fuel economy for those morning runs.

September1

wtawfick wrote: »

That's interesting to know. Throughout the winter on weekdays, my wife would be leaving 7:30-8:00am to drop off the kids & then go to work. I was under the impression that short distance runs is where I'd get the most fuel efficiency as it should use the electric component more (at low speeds) & also charge it more with the braking. Obviously now, I need to factor in that there won't be a huge fuel economy for those morning runs.

It is a bit more complicated. Very short runs are not that efficient, as even with full battery ICE would try to warm up. In winter only after mile or two car would alternate between electrical and petrol engines and fuel efficiency would be there. If she drives for example half a mile to school and then another half mile to work and then car would stay on parking in cold waiting for another 1 mile trip - your efficiency would be poor.

However if you go perhaps to do shopping in town, and them drive between shops while engine is still warm, then 60 mpg is really easy.

It is inherent problem of ICE, nothing wrong with Prius in particular. I never drove petrol or diesel car that would be efficient on 1 mile winter trips on cold engine.

wtawfick

September1 wrote: »

It is a bit more complicated. Very short runs are not that efficient, as even with full battery ICE would try to warm up. In winter only after mile or two car would alternate between electrical and petrol engines and fuel efficiency would be there. If she drives for example half a mile to school and then another half mile to work and then car would stay on parking in cold waiting for another 1 mile trip - your efficiency would be poor.

However if you go perhaps to do shopping in town, and them drive between shops while engine is still warm, then 60 mpg is really easy.

It is inherent problem of ICE, nothing wrong with Prius in particular. I never drove petrol or diesel car that would be efficient on 1 mile winter trips on cold engine.

It's about a couple of miles to school & then a further couple of miles to work. But I get your point. The diesel or petrol cars won't be efficient in those conditions either.

September1

If you can wait few months or maybe a year and you want to get something untested and you want to spend way more money, there is option of Outlander PHEV - pure electric range is 50km so for most days it would be super economical.

wtawfick

September1 wrote: »

If you can wait few months or maybe a year and you want to get something untested and you want to spend way more money, there is option of Outlander PHEV - pure electric range is 50km so for most days it would be super economical.

That unfortunately would be beyond what I could afford, both from money or time point of view.

wtawfick

BMJD wrote: »

My Prius is perfectly fine at 120-140 km/h, it would be doing around 50mpg at that speed though, perhaps a little less on an incline or in a headwind. I generally keep it at an indicated 110 km/h on cruise control on the motorway and I average around 60mpg, at the expense of 60 seconds or so of my commute
There is plenty of power to accelerate at those speeds too if needed.

This sounds very reassuring.

TBi

I'd say the prius would be more fuel economical than a diesel over short distances anyway, plus diesels and short distances definitely don't mix. I wonder if they'll bring out a plug in version anytime soon. That would suit you perfectly.

wtawfick

Ok. I have the day off to go car hunting. I'll let you know tonight how things went.

wtawfick

TBi wrote: »

I'd say the prius would be more fuel economical than a diesel over short distances anyway, plus diesels and short distances definitely don't mix. I wonder if they'll bring out a plug in version anytime soon. That would suit you perfectly.

Don't think there's any sign of a plug in for this year 2014. Unfortunately I can't afford to wait. I need to get this finalised within the next couple of weeks.

Tea 1000

RedDeadMarshal wrote: »

never had a problem with mine except for the clutch it cant handle the tdi's torque.

:rolleyes:

wtawfick wrote: »

Thanks Mad_Lad,

RedDeadMarshall has a good point when he said "it's just so effortless in 6th gear at 140km/h". This made me think of a question for you. How's the Prius on a long distance drive, say doing 120-140km/hr all the way from Galway to Dublin. I did test drive the car on the motorway, but that was only for less than a 5km stretch. It was just to bring it up to speed. I'm not sure about a long distance drive. Also how stable is it on the motorway (lets say in stormy & gusty winds as we had a few days ago).
The Touran that I have is pretty slow getting up to speed, but it has no problem maintaining it once it gets there. It's also a very heavy car, so quite stable on the road

No, RedDeadMarshall doesn't have any good points. He just has rubbish to spout via his keyboard. Don't mind him.
Also as said, you have a 1.6 2004 Touran, that engine is pants so you'll be happy with almost anything else you can get!

BMJD

wtawfick wrote: »

That's interesting to know. Throughout the winter on weekdays, my wife would be leaving 7:30-8:00am to drop off the kids & then go to work. I was under the impression that short distance runs is where I'd get the most fuel efficiency as it should use the electric component more (at low speeds) & also charge it more with the braking. Obviously now, I need to factor in that there won't be a huge fuel economy for those morning runs.

Depends how short is short! A 5 or 6 minute drive in the cold weather, heat on etc., will see anywhere from 7 l/100km to over 10, it only really settles down after 8 - 10 minutes. It's the same in any non-EV car though, once you get warmed up and running you see the full benefit of the hybrid system.

September1

Plug in Prius is not 7 seater and if you are ok with 5 seats then EV will not only be most economical, but it will be preheated waiting to wife&children every morning.

wtawfick

Tea 1000 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

No, RedDeadMarshall doesn't have any good points. He just has rubbish to spout via his keyboard. Don't mind him.
Also as said, you have a 1.6 2004 Touran, that engine is pants so you'll be happy with almost anything else you can get!

Agreed. The 1.6 Petrol on the Touran IS pants!!
The only reason I didn't get rid of it sooner, was because I rarely drive it myself.

galwaytt

wtawfick wrote: »

That's interesting to know. Throughout the winter on weekdays, my wife would be leaving 7:30-8:00am to drop off the kids & then go to work. I was under the impression that short distance runs is where I'd get the most fuel efficiency as it should use the electric component more (at low speeds) & also charge it more with the braking. Obviously now, I need to factor in that there won't be a huge fuel economy for those morning runs.

I had an Auris hybrid for a few weeks and could not get more than. ....46? mpg out of it. Lovely car, lovely as an automatic, but as you're finding out, if you want auto in a Toyota, then you haven't much choice these days other than a hybrid.

I would pick one over the VW you're looking at tbh.

wtawfick

BMJD wrote: »

Depends how short is short! A 5 or 6 minute drive in the cold weather, heat on etc., will see anywhere from 7 l/100km to over 10, it only really settles down after 8 - 10 minutes. It's the same in any non-EV car though, once you get warmed up and running you see the full benefit of the hybrid system.

I fully understand that it would be the same for any engine until it warms up.

Just out of interest, In a hybrid, would it be of any benefit to leave the car running (while parked) for a few minutes on a cold morning to warm it up? Or would that just defeat the purpose (as in I'll just end up wasting petrol while the car is still idle).

wtawfick

September1 wrote: »

Plug in Prius is not 7 seater and if you are ok with 5 seats then EV will not only be most economical, but it will be preheated waiting to wife&children every morning.

Unfortunately 5 seats is not an option for us.

colm_mcm

wtawfick wrote: »

I fully understand that it would be the same for any engine until it warms up.

Just out of interest, In a hybrid, would it be of any benefit to leave the car running (while parked) for a few minutes on a cold morning to warm it up? Or would that just defeat the purpose (as in I'll just end up wasting petrol while the car is still idle).

The Prius would run the engine to heat it up but it has a thermos style canister that coolant is kept hot in and it pumps this through the engine. It doesn't take long for a Prius to warm up.
You'll have battery assistance too.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

The Prius would run the engine to heat it up but it has a thermos style canister that coolant is kept hot in and it pumps this through the engine. It doesn't take long for a Prius to warm up.
You'll have battery assistance too.

I think the U.S version is the only one that has the flask.

wtawfick

noelf wrote: »

You should be able to get a Volkswagen on 1.9 pcp till the end of march . I'm going for a new golf highline 1.6 tdi plus free servicing till it reaches 60000 km

Western motors allways more expensive I went to commons cars in navan much better trade in value . oh if you want a change from touran the passat is 0.9 pcp estate perhaps ????

I rang Commons in Navan & spoke to David Nolan. There only seems to be the same APR across all VW dealerships. The 1.9% was only for the Highline trim. That's only in the Golf, Passat & Jetta. Not available on the Touran.

In the end I couldn't get a more competitive deal from them, than what I got in Western Motors.

wtawfick

colm_mcm wrote: »

The Prius would run the engine to heat it up but it has a thermos style canister that coolant is kept hot in and it pumps this through the engine. It doesn't take long for a Prius to warm up.
You'll have battery assistance too.

When you say "run the engine", does that mean run the Petrol component of the engine?

wtawfick

wtawfick wrote: »

When you say "run the engine", does that mean run the Petrol component of the engine?

The engine has to warm up to warm the interior of the car and to warm the cat for emissions reasons.

If you want to speed up engine shut down then get heated seats and turn down the heat and the engine will run a lot less.

galwaytt

wtawfick wrote: »

When you say "run the engine", does that mean run the Petrol component of the engine?

You don't get a choice - the computer decides if and when it runs. You can't force it.

+1 on heated seats btw. I wouldn't have a car without them now.