Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

magnumbud

BloodBath wrote: »

We need solid defensive midfielders. Fellaini is not and never will be one. He's too slow and does not use his physicality enough to win and hold onto the ball. He's not aggressive enough. He's half of Yaya Toure.

except he is that for belgium and was that for the early parts of his career at everton. and your doing just as what was said writing him off before he even played more than 10 games for the club in that position

BloodBath

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For Fulham....

Play Fletcher and Carrick or Carrick and Jones in midfield. Tell them to sit and protect.

Play Mata, Rooney and Januzaj off RVP, tell them to do whatever the feck they want to do.

Tell Raf and Evra to provide the width.

Tell the players 'getting to the byline' won't be a indicator of a good performance.

Watching United under Moyes is like watching Ireland under Trap. Pathetic management and player utilization.

It would be good to see us use a 4-2-3-1 but don't think Carrick and Fletch are up to the task. How Moyes didn't get a defensive midfielder in January or the summer I don't know.

Mitch Connor

No

BloodBath wrote: »

What formation would that be? You need solid all round midfielders no matter what formation you play.

4231.

As said in my Fulham post.

Take the requirement to create or dictate the tempo off the central midfield as we don't have the players capable of it.

Play two central midfielders whose primary instructions are to protect the defence and pass the ball to the forward 4.

Give freedom to Rooney, Mata, Januzaj (or Kagawa) to go about creating as their talents allow, rather than running the line and crossing whenever possible.

Set the team up to pass the bal, with the instruction to pass and move, rather than hoof and hope.

we have 4 players that play in the attacking midfield/number 10 role that pratically ever club in football would love - we have to find a way to use them properly.

It isn't going to happen though, cause Moyes is frozen in his mindset - like Trap/Ireland.

Backstreet Moyes

BloodBath wrote: »

We need solid defensive midfielders. Fellaini is not and never will be one. He's too slow and does not use his physicality enough to win and hold onto the ball. He's not aggressive enough. He's half of Yaya Toure.

Not physical enough? Did you miss his last few Everton games against United where he kicked our midfielders all over the park and bullied them.

Mitch Connor

No

ericzeking wrote: »

I think we were going that way saturday before everything went t!ts up...we were dominating the ball (I know it was only Stoke) with Rooney and Mata having free-ish roles and dropping off to receive the ball from Carrick. Some nice intricate stuff I thought...at least I think I thought!!!!

Not from the first 40mins that I saw. Long balls from the back and a complete reliance on getting the ball wide and crossing it in. Standard Moyes sh1te.

BloodBath

No

Nuts102 wrote: »

Not physical enough? Did you miss his last few Everton games against United where he kicked our midfielders all over the park and bullied them.

Everybody bullies our midfield.

SherlockWatson

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

So ye are saying that Ferguson purposely chose a manager who he knew would fail to protect his legacy at the club?

That is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read

He's said previously that Fergie intentionally picked someone inadequate, so that his legacy wasn't tarnished, his opinion isn't worth reading or arguing with, he'll eventually disappear without answering anything.

FatherTed

ericzeking wrote: »

He bought Fellaini, even if he may have slightly overpaid. During the summer the board was in main pretty happy we signed him.

One of the best midfielders in the league the last few seasons.

He seems to have been written off by many, for whom it suits them to write him off. Come in here after a loss or poor result and pronounce how useless Moyes and the midfield are and want him sacked, yet his midfield signing has been injured for half the games so far and surely was due a bedding in period.

I'm looking forward to seeing him throw his weight around in midfield in the coming games he can be a big player for us.

Why does he need a "bedding in" period? It's not like he's young and inexperienced in the Prem like someone like Matic. Oh wait....

Frankie Lee

No

Average-Ro wrote: »

What would people think of Santon from Newcastle? I'd say 10-12 million could get him. Young, solid, experience in the Premier League and can cover both sides. Would stop Smalling and Jones being shunted out to the right anyway.

I know Newcastle are a selling club but I doubt they would want to sell to one of their upper mid table rivals.

Cantona's Collars

BloodBath wrote: »

What formation would that be? You need solid all round midfielders no matter what formation you play.

We may buy some first.:(

FatherTed

Nuts102 wrote: »

Not physical enough? Did you miss his last few Everton games against United where he kicked our midfielders all over the park and bullied them.

There's a big difference between being aggressive and dirty. Plus we don't need dirty players to boss the midfield like we haven't done all season. You just need good players and a proper game plan.

ericzeking

FatherTed wrote: »

Why does he need a "bedding in" period? It's not like he's young and inexperienced in the Prem like someone like Matic. Oh wait....

New team mates, newish role (at club level), new surroundings, no pre-season with that self same new team.

Matic? He's played what, 2 games? So are you professing him to be the dogs b0ll0cks already now and Fellaini is a failure after 10 games, not much room to manouevre in your head is there....knee jerk anyone??

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Not from the first 40mins that I saw. Long balls from the back and a complete reliance on getting the ball wide and crossing it in. Standard Moyes sh1te.

Hmmm, let's agree to disagree so.

I do think you are very much predisposed to watching "Standard Moyes sh1te" though.

keane2097

No

Is it worse to write Fellaini off after a handful of games or declare Matic an unbridled success after a game and a half? I can't split the two.

Average-Ro

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I know Newcastle are a selling club but I doubt they would want to sell to one of their upper mid table rivals.

You said it there, Newcastle are a selling club. Mike Ashley wouldn't mind making a decent profit on Santon, and I think Santon would be open to the move. He'd still get a lot of playing time as he can cover both sides and Rafael always gets a few injury niggles during the season.

Mitch Connor

No

ericzeking wrote: »

New team mates, newish role (at club level), new surroundings, no pre-season with that self same new team.

Matic? He's played what, 2 games? So are you professing him to be the dogs b0ll0cks already now and Fellaini is a failure after 10 games, not much room to manouevre in your head is there....knee jerk anyone??



Hmmm, let's agree to disagree so.

I do think you are very much predisposed to watching "Standard Moyes sh1te" though.

16 crosses in the opening 40 mins, 34 in total, so roughly 50/50.
24 long balls in the opening 40 mins, 47 in total, so roughly 50/50.

Have a look on here - http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2013/matches/695138/team-stats/1/1_PASS_08#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Don't see much variation from the Moyes norm.

bucketybuck

No

ericzeking wrote: »

Matic? He's played what, 2 games? So are you professing him to be the dogs b0ll0cks already now

keane2097 wrote: »

declare Matic an unbridled success after a game and a half? I can't split the two.

Does anybody want to show me where somebody said Matic was the dogs boll0cks? Because there mus be posts missing from my internet or something.

Mitch Connor

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

Does anybody want to show me where somebody said Matic was the dogs boll0cks? Because there mus be posts missing from my internet or something.

haven't seen any post on him, but he was great last night vs City.

ericzeking

FatherTed wrote: »

Why does he need a "bedding in" period? It's not like he's young and inexperienced in the Prem like someone like Matic. Oh wait....

@Buckety...the implication is here.

Dicky Pride

No

SherlockWatson wrote: »

He's said previously that Fergie intentionally picked someone inadequate, so that his legacy wasn't tarnished, his opinion isn't worth reading or arguing with, he'll eventually disappear without answering anything.

Go find where I said that.

PhlegmyMoses

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For Fulham....

Play Fletcher and Carrick or Carrick and Jones in midfield. Tell them to sit and protect.

Play Mata, Rooney and Januzaj off RVP, tell them to do whatever the feck they want to do.

Tell Raf and Evra to provide the width.

Tell the players 'getting to the byline' won't be a indicator of a good performance.

Watching United under Moyes is like watching Ireland under Trap. Pathetic management and player utilization.

I have been advocating that formation all year. I'd have the fullbacks less active in the forward positions though. Provide width when you can but don't forget to defend.

TheDoc

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Where did you read that? You're really not allowed to get angry about things that were never said.

And this is Deja Vu because I've had to explain this before to people on this forum.

He picked a man that he felt was right for the job. He had been a protege for some time (and him being scottish was also a big factor) and those things clouded his judgement imo. There should have been more people involved in the hiring process.

I've seen this mentioned alot and to be honest, I've got serious beef with it.

People genuinelly believe that Alex Ferguson was given the grace to pick his successor, and that was the bottom line?

If I run a massive football cash cow and organisation like Manchester United, that's revenue has been generated from unheralded success in the English Premier League, and constant featuring in Europe, I'm going to have a say who runs the team.

To somewhat believe the Glazers, the board, gave SAF free reign on who to hire, is genuinelly beyond obsurd. You do realise that yes? Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE have I read in definitive print, that Sir Alex was the final and only say on who took over from him.
What I have read, and what I have heard confirmed from both SAF and The Glazers, is that when Sir Alex decided he was retiring a process began to nominate and agree on a successor. This included the board, the Glazers and Sir Alex. And after debate and deliberation there was a unamimous decision made.

Sorry but people need to kinda get a grip on the real world here. This isn't some fantasy realm. While Sir Alex did for Manchester United what words really can't describe, he didn't have the right of doing what he wants without remit.

And just on the same notion, it's not Sir Alex that's being pigheaded refusing to cut ties with the manager. The Glazers run the club, the Glazers have the final say on the big decisions. And they were openly stated a few weeks back that Moyes is a longterm investment and their manager longterm, and there would be no kneejerk or short term decisions made. That he would be afforded the time and resources to continue on the great work at the club.



I'll apologise whole heartedly and retract this entire post if someone comes back now with some solid proof that it was Fergie alone who made this decision, but I won't believe for a second that a group that has invested a large part of their wealth into the club, didn't have a say in proceedings.

FutureGuy

You know what, if Fellaini turns out to be a flop, then so be it. Stranger things have happened.

However, the sheer number of people here who have written him off after a few games is really mindboggling.

Mitch Connor

No

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I have been advocating that formation all year. I'd have the fullbacks less active in the forward positions though. Provide width when you can but don't forget to defend.

I thought it was what we were going to do from the off - as it wouldn't be a million miles off what everton did. But we've done nothing I expected!

Based on the players we have, I can't understand why it isn't being done - it suits the 'balance' of our squad.

If you need to change things up then look at bringing in Young/Valencia (sigh) to provide more traditional width.

PhlegmyMoses

TheDoc wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned alot and to be honest, I've got serious beef with it.

People genuinelly believe that Alex Ferguson was given the grace to pick his successor, and that was the bottom line?

If I run a massive football cash cow and organisation like Manchester United, that's revenue has been generated from unheralded success in the English Premier League, and constant featuring in Europe, I'm going to have a say who runs the team.

To somewhat believe the Glazers, the board, gave SAF free reign on who to hire, is genuinelly beyond obsurd. You do realise that yes? Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE have I read in definitive print, that Sir Alex was the final and only say on who took over from him.
What I have read, and what I have heard confirmed from both SAF and The Glazers, is that when Sir Alex decided he was retiring a process began to nominate and agree on a successor. This included the board, the Glazers and Sir Alex. And after debate and deliberation there was a unamimous decision made.

Sorry but people need to kinda get a grip on the real world here. This isn't some fantasy realm. While Sir Alex did for Manchester United what words really can't describe, he didn't have the right of doing what he wants without remit.

And just on the same notion, it's not Sir Alex that's being pigheaded refusing to cut ties with the manager. The Glazers run the club, the Glazers have the final say on the big decisions. And they were openly stated a few weeks back that Moyes is a longterm investment and their manager longterm, and there would be no kneejerk or short term decisions made. That he would be afforded the time and resources to continue on the great work at the club.



I'll apologise whole heartedly and retract this entire post if someone comes back now with some solid proof that it was Fergie alone who made this decision, but I won't believe for a second that a group that has invested a large part of their wealth into the club, didn't have a say in proceedings.

The Glazers know very little about football. They would need expert advisors to choose a new manager. Who better than the most successful manager ever?

I think you're forgetting about how hands off The Glazers are. Sure, they'd have to sign off, but a good owner\manager\person of authority will always delegate to somebody with superior knowledge and understanding. Business 101.

Also, the manager of the club is no longer the single most important appointment they can make from a financial perspective. Owners aren't football men anymore.

BloodBath

No

The central pairing of Carrick with fletcher or Fellaini would make me sigh just as much.

Our midfield is terrible. You can shuffle players around as much as you want but it won't change that fact.

We're playing antiquated football with antiquated players. Maybe Moyes is too old school to change.

Al Capwned

We've lost a few bloody good posters in here over the last while.
Not as good a read as it once was as a result.

bucketybuck

No

ericzeking wrote: »

@Buckety...the implication is here.

No it isn't.

The implication in Fatherteds post was that Matic seemingly did not need the bedding in period Felliani apparently needs. You have then tried to spin that into the poster saying that Matic was ripping up the league, that he was the dogs boll0cks so to speak.

There is a world of difference between settling in well and being "an unbridled success" whick Keane2097 also pulled from nowhere. You are badly undermining your own argument by misrepresenting Fatherteds.

Your Airbag

Sometimes all you can do is laugh

https://doc-0k-94-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/ha0ro937gcuc7l7deffksulhg5h7mbp1/dnp6cji02i2gonhupbob68q1ae8m32gl/1391515200000/05944663637561318721/*/0B6YI66n6SQQNZDgtUy1xRHRYcDA?h=16653014193614665626

Mitch Connor

No

BloodBath wrote: »

The central pairing of Carrick with fletcher or Fellaini would make me sigh just as much.

Our midfield is terrible. You can shuffle players around as much as you want but it won't change that fact.

this is true - but the way we use them (and other players) is as big an issue as the quality of the players.

Our midfield is good enough to do a job, as long as you are setting them up to do the correct job.

If we aren't going to use them as a creative link, which we don't becuase we can't, fine. But using the wingers and crossing as the only outlet is no more the solution.

Set the team up to protect and play for Rooney, Mata, RVP and Januzaj/Kagawa

Thecon21

No

I still have a huge worry about the background staff, a club at this level and size should have top quality coaches helping the manager through various different aspects of the team..

Having Phil Neville as a first team coach.. A man that has no experience in coaching let alone at this level.. It's like throwing a new 1st year mechanic into a Ferrari F1 garage..

ericzeking

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I thought it was what we were going to do from the off - as it wouldn't be a million miles off what everton did. But we've done nothing I expected!

Based on the players we have, I can't understand why it isn't being done - it suits the 'balance' of our squad.

If you need to change things up then look at bringing in Young/Valencia (sigh) to provide more traditional width.

Would you say the signing of Mata and Fellaini as well as the pursuit of Baines/Contreau and the fast tracking of Januzaj would indicate that that is the grand plan, to play precisely as you are suggesting?

I hope we go that route too by the way, serious potential.

TheDoc

FatherTed wrote: »

Why does he need a "bedding in" period? It's not like he's young and inexperienced in the Prem like someone like Matic. Oh wait....

Had a really good debate over the weekend with a friend of mine who is a big United fan, and a REALLY good football person who is intelligent to have discussions with.

We were obviously in the pits after the stoke defeat, in Germany at a stag with a predominantly Liverpool group which made matters worse, but a debate arose about Fellaini with the usual Liverpool lads giving stick about him being ****e, and my mate kinda nearly agreeing that ok he hasn't been up to par.

I weighed in on the discussion with my thoughts to just one guy at the side of the table and when I was finished the whole group were listening intently and pretty much had widespread agreement amongst the group.

I'll somewhat attempt to recreate that discussion now, but I'm at a disadvantage it being written, and not having 3 steins of sweet beer in me.

First off with Fellaini there needs to be clarification and understanding of what he is. His role. Where does Fellaini actually play.

Contrare to popular belief, Fellaini is not an advanced midfielder, box to box midfielder, or playmaker of any sort. Fellaini came to promise playing as a physical and intellegent defensive midfielder and he was signed to Everton for that reason.
People typically only "relate" to Fellaini, in his last 18 months at Everton. Why? Because he was scoring goals. Because he was creating goals. Because he was a giant belgian with massive hair absolutely battering premier league defences. But this is not Fellaini, this is not what he does.

Everton were in a poor situation where they were struggling with finding and settling ona good return goalscorer after flutters with Jelavic, Saha, Anichebe etc. The powers of the mighty reliable Tim Cahill were on the wane, and his exit was inevitable. In order to compensate Moyes deployed Fellaini in a role to be a stop gap. TO play as a no.10
I think it's a massive CREDIT to Fellaini as a player, and his intellegence as a football, that he was able to move from being a defensive midfielder to being a no.10. To go from attacking headers with the advantage of being on the run, to being able to then win headers with his back to goal, and hold up the ball and feed others.

Maroune Fellaini was bought for us, as a DM. I have simply no questions or reservations about that, and I think it will come to pass. This is a guy who is a CONSTANT in an outragously impressive Belgian national team, playing as a DM. He is big, he is powerful, he is suprisingly quick, and he is intellegent. People genuinelly don't remember his performances for Everton before he moved up the pitch. But he was impressive, and he still has room to improve.
For a massive man, he doesn't even stupidly overpower his opponent, he is usually already in the spot they are running to. I've seen it countless times in his starts for us. Knicking the ball, rolling it to another player, off they go. He doesn't launch bursting tackles, he's not stomping around the pitch. Unless your aware and nearly looking at it, a DM's importance and play can nearly pass you by during a game.

Fellaini has a number of problems at present which arn't going for him, but I've no doubt will be resolved.

I think the arrival of Mata should lift the pressure he was carrying as signing. People assumed we were getting the no.10 Everton Fellaini, when we signed the Defensive Minded Fellaini, which is what we needed. Fellaini I've no doubt was intended to be bought alongside another more flarey attack minded midfielder. Unfortunately that hasn't come to pass.

He finds himself along Carrick, Cleverly, Jones. none of which are creative, none of which will drive the play forward. Fellaini is not that guy, while he can and probably will at times, it's not his strength. The whole point of his existence and ability is that we can afford to have a more dyanmic midfielder beside him, that can maraud forward and not worry about leaving gaps behind, Fellaini will fill it.
At present we have a situation where our CM's are passive and don't carry the ball. It's short passing that goes nowhere until it eventually hits the wings. Fellaini is a neat passer of the ball, but he is not a GPS cannon that can ping balls all accross the pitch. And he never pretends to be. He wins the ball, he offloads the ball and lets others do that job.


I fully believe Fellaini will be a massive asset. I havn't been disappointed overly with him so far because I understand what his job is, and what he is there to do. He is not our creative flair, he is not going to score and assist. He is the steel and to be blunt bit of physical menace in the middle we've lacked for years.

It won't be until we have a proper dynamic CM in alongside him, that we will fully appreciate Fellaini. No doubt I could be SHOCKINGLY wrong in this next sentence, but if we sign a quality CM to partner him in the summer, we will quickly realise that with him playing a defensive minded role. the money we spent was really, well spent.

Mitch Connor

No

ericzeking wrote: »

Would you say the signing of Mata and Fellaini as well as the pursuit of Baines/Contreau and the fast tracking of Januzaj would indicate that that is the grand plan, to play precisely as you are suggesting?

I hope we go that route too by the way, serious potential.

I don't know. Honestly.

I do hope so - but I feel we have players already at the club to make a better fist of that style than the long ball/crossing style we have had to endure so far - So if we are moving towards the formation/style I want, then why haven't we already do so.

The setup and approach vs Stoke was a real kick in the nuts for me - the Mata signing had me hoping it was starting to move in the right direction, but the way we played vs Stoke was just so horribly wrong. Keeping with the reliance on wide play and direct/long passing, against probably the biggest and most physical team in the league, in wet and windy conditions - our approach could not have been less suited to the players we put out, the team we were playing or the conditions we were playing in. For Moyes to persist and insist on it was just a painful indication that THIS is how he wants us to play.

FatherTed

ericzeking wrote: »

New team mates, newish role (at club level), new surroundings, no pre-season with that self same new team.

Matic? He's played what, 2 games? So are you professing him to be the dogs b0ll0cks already now and Fellaini is a failure after 10 games, not much room to manouevre in your head is there....knee jerk anyone??



Hmmm, let's agree to disagree so.

I do think you are very much predisposed to watching "Standard Moyes sh1te" though.

Er, no. You're the one who said he needed bedding in, the poor lad. Matic in only his second game schooled Yaya yesterday so I am just going on what I've seen from Fellaini and Matic.

It probably says more about Moyes and his staff rather than the two players I mentioned. I know Moyes' supporters go on about how it's not his team, it's aging, needs more time, Fergie took 5 years to build his first team, he's building a style, just missed out on Thiago and Fabregas and so on. Also that we were missing Carrick, RVP and Rooney, but they played on Saturday and we were worse than ever. But barring De Gea and Januzaj and maybe Rooney in spots, all the players have turned to shyte. We're playing prehistoric run to the endline and cross again, again and again and wonderful teams like Stoke and Sunderland laugh at us. The worst part is that we've become used to losing and even Mark Hughes mentioned it at the weekend. The swagger, arrogance and belief has gone from the players. Defeat is becoming standard.

I think the Glazers when they see that we will not qualify for the CL will really consider giving Moyes the boot because that will affect the bottom line.

SherlockWatson

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Go find where I said that.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86762445&postcount=3901


Particularly, this part.

The type of man that ferguson is he was never going to recommend a manager who was even close to filling his boots.

Now, I can see you either, a) Leaving the thread for a while again because you're talking out of your hole(like you did the last time) or b) You're going to start insulting and correcting peoples grammar again because you're wrong.(like you did the last time)


Either way, I don't care, your opinion is unimportant to me.

ericzeking

bucketybuck wrote: »

No it isn't.

The implication in Fatherteds post was that Matic seemingly did not need the bedding in period Felliani apparently needs. You have then tried to spin that into the poster saying that Matic was ripping up the league, that he was the dogs boll0cks so to speak.

There is a world of difference between settling in well and being "an unbridled success" whick Keane2097 also pulled from nowhere. You are badly undermining your own argument by misrepresenting Fatherteds.

We can argue about precise wordings, "dogs b0llocks" was a bit extreme and may be misrepresentative. I give you that but the fact remains that there is a clear parallel between the reactionary nature of dismissing Fellaini after 10 games and saying, if we take your interpretation, that Matic simply does not need a bedding period after a game and a half.

Dicky Pride

No

SherlockWatson wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86762445&postcount=3901


Particularly, this part.




Now, I can see you either, a) Leaving the thread for a while again because you're talking out of your hole(like you did the last time) or b) You're going to start insulting and correcting peoples grammar again because you're wrong.(like you did the last time)


Either way, I don't care, your opinion is unimportant to me.

You really are a very odd person - I hope you don't act like this with people in real life.

First off, I stand by that. After I wrote it, you followed me around the thread for a while, telling everyone who would listen that I had said that Ferguson had sabotaged the club...here's an example:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86767735&postcount=4082

and here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86772540&postcount=4209

And then to shut you up:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86773146&postcount=4226

And you're still on this bloody thread sprouting the same ****e.

Your Airbag

This is the dream lineup a lot of people want to see until the end of the season.

---

Carrick/Fletch---Fellaini

---

--Januzaj

---

Rooney

---

Mata

---

---

RVP

---

I'm not sure we will see this until Evra is replaced given his form. It would leave us massively exposed on the left. You need Young or even Val in there for cover on the other side given our wings backs form. Raf could do with some competition also imo. One side maybe but not both will be risked.

Not to say Januzaj doesn't work back but he is not physical enough yet to rely on.

keane2097

No

bucketybuck wrote: »

No it isn't.

The implication in Fatherteds post was that Matic seemingly did not need the bedding in period Felliani apparently needs. You have then tried to spin that into the poster saying that Matic was ripping up the league, that he was the dogs boll0cks so to speak.

There is a world of difference between settling in well and being "an unbridled success" whick Keane2097 also pulled from nowhere. You are badly undermining your own argument by misrepresenting Fatherteds.

The implication of saying that he doesn't need a bedding in period is that you've already decided he's a success obviously.

Please complete the following sentence please:

"He doesn't need a bedding in period because..."

Mitch Connor

No

Dicky Pride wrote: »

You really are a very odd person - I hope you don't act like this with people in real life.

First off, I stand by that. After I wrote it, you followed me around the thread for a while, telling everyone who would listen that I had said that Ferguson had sabotaged the club...here's an example:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86767735&postcount=4082

and here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86772540&postcount=4209

And then to shut you up:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86773146&postcount=4226

And you're still on this bloody thread sprouting the same ****e.

none of that discredits the assertion you said Fergie would never pick a manager capable of 'filling his boots', with the clear implication being Fergie picked a manager he knew incapable of the job at hand.

BloodBath

No

he is suprisingly quick

Are you talking about the same player? Did you watch us vs City this year? The central pairing of Carrick and Fellaini could not get near the ball. Both were way too slow at closing gaps and the ball. Granted they could have done with more support from other players but their deficiencies as DMF's vs a good team was plain to see.

dr.kenneth noisewater

When is Fellani due back?

Backstreet Moyes

Being honest i was away the weekend and only half watching the game. But was Mata playing really deep almost cm or maybe it was just a few times i looked up he seemed fairly deep.

Dicky Pride

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

none of that discredits the assertion you said Fergie would never pick a manager capable of 'filling his boots', with the clear implication being Fergie picked a manager he knew incapable of the job at hand.

I'm not sure why I'm having to explain this so much. I believe that Ferguson wanted to hire someone who fitted the mould of his protege...someone who at that moment was nowhere near the level need to become manager of man utd. He wouldn't have wanted the likes of Jose or a big personality like that.

This is my opinion, and on a forum of opinions, this one seems to upset a lot of people. I'm not wrong just because you believe I'm wrong.

FutureGuy

TheDoc wrote: »

Had a really good debate over the weekend with a friend of mine who is a big United fan, and a REALLY good football person who is intelligent to have discussions with.

We were obviously in the pits after the stoke defeat, in Germany at a stag with a predominantly Liverpool group which made matters worse, but a debate arose about Fellaini with the usual Liverpool lads giving stick about him being ****e, and my mate kinda nearly agreeing that ok he hasn't been up to par.

I weighed in on the discussion with my thoughts to just one guy at the side of the table and when I was finished the whole group were listening intently and pretty much had widespread agreement amongst the group.

I'll somewhat attempt to recreate that discussion now, but I'm at a disadvantage it being written, and not having 3 steins of sweet beer in me.

First off with Fellaini there needs to be clarification and understanding of what he is. His role. Where does Fellaini actually play.

Contrare to popular belief, Fellaini is not an advanced midfielder, box to box midfielder, or playmaker of any sort. Fellaini came to promise playing as a physical and intellegent defensive midfielder and he was signed to Everton for that reason.
People typically only "relate" to Fellaini, in his last 18 months at Everton. Why? Because he was scoring goals. Because he was creating goals. Because he was a giant belgian with massive hair absolutely battering premier league defences. But this is not Fellaini, this is not what he does.

Everton were in a poor situation where they were struggling with finding and settling ona good return goalscorer after flutters with Jelavic, Saha, Anichebe etc. The powers of the mighty reliable Tim Cahill were on the wane, and his exit was inevitable. In order to compensate Moyes deployed Fellaini in a role to be a stop gap. TO play as a no.10
I think it's a massive CREDIT to Fellaini as a player, and his intellegence as a football, that he was able to move from being a defensive midfielder to being a no.10. To go from attacking headers with the advantage of being on the run, to being able to then win headers with his back to goal, and hold up the ball and feed others.

Maroune Fellaini was bought for us, as a DM. I have simply no questions or reservations about that, and I think it will come to pass. This is a guy who is a CONSTANT in an outragously impressive Belgian national team, playing as a DM. He is big, he is powerful, he is suprisingly quick, and he is intellegent. People genuinelly don't remember his performances for Everton before he moved up the pitch. But he was impressive, and he still has room to improve.
For a massive man, he doesn't even stupidly overpower his opponent, he is usually already in the spot they are running to. I've seen it countless times in his starts for us. Knicking the ball, rolling it to another player, off they go. He doesn't launch bursting tackles, he's not stomping around the pitch. Unless your aware and nearly looking at it, a DM's importance and play can nearly pass you by during a game.

Fellaini has a number of problems at present which arn't going for him, but I've no doubt will be resolved.

I think the arrival of Mata should lift the pressure he was carrying as signing. People assumed we were getting the no.10 Everton Fellaini, when we signed the Defensive Minded Fellaini, which is what we needed. Fellaini I've no doubt was intended to be bought alongside another more flarey attack minded midfielder. Unfortunately that hasn't come to pass.

He finds himself along Carrick, Cleverly, Jones. none of which are creative, none of which will drive the play forward. Fellaini is not that guy, while he can and probably will at times, it's not his strength. The whole point of his existence and ability is that we can afford to have a more dyanmic midfielder beside him, that can maraud forward and not worry about leaving gaps behind, Fellaini will fill it.
At present we have a situation where our CM's are passive and don't carry the ball. It's short passing that goes nowhere until it eventually hits the wings. Fellaini is a neat passer of the ball, but he is not a GPS cannon that can ping balls all accross the pitch. And he never pretends to be. He wins the ball, he offloads the ball and lets others do that job.


I fully believe Fellaini will be a massive asset. I havn't been disappointed overly with him so far because I understand what his job is, and what he is there to do. He is not our creative flair, he is not going to score and assist. He is the steel and to be blunt bit of physical menace in the middle we've lacked for years.

It won't be until we have a proper dynamic CM in alongside him, that we will fully appreciate Fellaini. No doubt I could be SHOCKINGLY wrong in this next sentence, but if we sign a quality CM to partner him in the summer, we will quickly realise that with him playing a defensive minded role. the money we spent was really, well spent.

This x 1,000,000

In his first few games with United, he was trying to fill that creative void. We have Mata now. Hopefully in the summer we will have a creative and dynamic midfielder to play along side him.

Just let him play DM for us and forget about having to bomb forward. If that happens, he will be an absolute phenom for United. I have no doubt about it.

SherlockWatson

Dicky Pride wrote: »

You really are a very odd person - I hope you don't act like this with people in real life.

First off, I stand by that. After I wrote it, you followed me around the thread for a while, telling everyone who would listen that I had said that Ferguson had sabotaged the club...here's an example:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86767735&postcount=4082

and here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86772540&postcount=4209

And then to shut you up:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86773146&postcount=4226

And you're still on this bloody thread sprouting the same ****e.

You asked me to find it, and are now complaining because I did such?


You really are an odd cookie, i have one piece of advice for you.

Since you clearly don't understand what words mean, please don't use them anymore, just become a mute, and we will all love you for it.



Also, how the fúck can I follow you somewhere by staying in the same place?? Words are certainly not your strong point, maybe you should communicate in the medium of sign language or pictures?



Edit - If you want to carry this on, please feel free to send me a PM that will be duly ignored, i'd rather not ruin this thread with your nonsense for a second time.

F.J.

At the weekend it took 23 minutes for United to put together a decent string of passes.Both teams up to then treated the ball like a hot potato.That is expected of Stoke but for United not good enough at all.

Its All Wright

TheDoc wrote: »

Had a really good debate over the weekend with a friend of mine who is a big United fan, and a REALLY good football person who is intelligent to have discussions with.

We were obviously in the pits after the stoke defeat, in Germany at a stag with a predominantly Liverpool group which made matters worse, but a debate arose about Fellaini with the usual Liverpool lads giving stick about him being ****e, and my mate kinda nearly agreeing that ok he hasn't been up to par.

I weighed in on the discussion with my thoughts to just one guy at the side of the table and when I was finished the whole group were listening intently and pretty much had widespread agreement amongst the group.

I'll somewhat attempt to recreate that discussion now, but I'm at a disadvantage it being written, and not having 3 steins of sweet beer in me.

First off with Fellaini there needs to be clarification and understanding of what he is. His role. Where does Fellaini actually play.

Contrare to popular belief, Fellaini is not an advanced midfielder, box to box midfielder, or playmaker of any sort. Fellaini came to promise playing as a physical and intellegent defensive midfielder and he was signed to Everton for that reason.
People typically only "relate" to Fellaini, in his last 18 months at Everton. Why? Because he was scoring goals. Because he was creating goals. Because he was a giant belgian with massive hair absolutely battering premier league defences. But this is not Fellaini, this is not what he does.

Everton were in a poor situation where they were struggling with finding and settling ona good return goalscorer after flutters with Jelavic, Saha, Anichebe etc. The powers of the mighty reliable Tim Cahill were on the wane, and his exit was inevitable. In order to compensate Moyes deployed Fellaini in a role to be a stop gap. TO play as a no.10
I think it's a massive CREDIT to Fellaini as a player, and his intellegence as a football, that he was able to move from being a defensive midfielder to being a no.10. To go from attacking headers with the advantage of being on the run, to being able to then win headers with his back to goal, and hold up the ball and feed others.

Maroune Fellaini was bought for us, as a DM. I have simply no questions or reservations about that, and I think it will come to pass. This is a guy who is a CONSTANT in an outragously impressive Belgian national team, playing as a DM. He is big, he is powerful, he is suprisingly quick, and he is intellegent. People genuinelly don't remember his performances for Everton before he moved up the pitch. But he was impressive, and he still has room to improve.
For a massive man, he doesn't even stupidly overpower his opponent, he is usually already in the spot they are running to. I've seen it countless times in his starts for us. Knicking the ball, rolling it to another player, off they go. He doesn't launch bursting tackles, he's not stomping around the pitch. Unless your aware and nearly looking at it, a DM's importance and play can nearly pass you by during a game.

Fellaini has a number of problems at present which arn't going for him, but I've no doubt will be resolved.

I think the arrival of Mata should lift the pressure he was carrying as signing. People assumed we were getting the no.10 Everton Fellaini, when we signed the Defensive Minded Fellaini, which is what we needed. Fellaini I've no doubt was intended to be bought alongside another more flarey attack minded midfielder. Unfortunately that hasn't come to pass.

He finds himself along Carrick, Cleverly, Jones. none of which are creative, none of which will drive the play forward. Fellaini is not that guy, while he can and probably will at times, it's not his strength. The whole point of his existence and ability is that we can afford to have a more dyanmic midfielder beside him, that can maraud forward and not worry about leaving gaps behind, Fellaini will fill it.
At present we have a situation where our CM's are passive and don't carry the ball. It's short passing that goes nowhere until it eventually hits the wings. Fellaini is a neat passer of the ball, but he is not a GPS cannon that can ping balls all accross the pitch. And he never pretends to be. He wins the ball, he offloads the ball and lets others do that job.


I fully believe Fellaini will be a massive asset. I havn't been disappointed overly with him so far because I understand what his job is, and what he is there to do. He is not our creative flair, he is not going to score and assist. He is the steel and to be blunt bit of physical menace in the middle we've lacked for years.

It won't be until we have a proper dynamic CM in alongside him, that we will fully appreciate Fellaini. No doubt I could be SHOCKINGLY wrong in this next sentence, but if we sign a quality CM to partner him in the summer, we will quickly realise that with him playing a defensive minded role. the money we spent was really, well spent.

Great post. Makes a change from some of the garbage you read in here

Dicky Pride

No

SherlockWatson wrote: »

You asked me to find it, and are now complaining because I did such?


You really are an odd cookie, i have one piece of advice for you.

Since you clearly don't understand what words mean, please don't use them anymore, just become a mute, and we will all love you for it.



Also, how the fúck can I follow you somewhere by staying in the same place?? Words are certainly not your strong point, maybe you should communicate in the medium of sign language or pictures?

haha jaysus. I've seen deflection before but that takes the biscuit.

I'm sure we're starting to bore people now so let's just leave it we don't agree with each other's opinion.

GSPfan

No

Al Capwned wrote: »

We've lost a few bloody good posters in here over the last while.
Not as good a read as it once was as a result.

Meh. Some of those guys just sit there and rip apart newbies or anyone with a different opinion.
The odd insightful post comes with a lot of nasty comments usually.