Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

IamtheWalrus

Agueroooo wrote: »

Had a good chat with a mate of mine last night who is big Bayern fan and a bit of a footballing geek.
We got chatting about Guardiola and how is stamping his philosophy onto the Bayern team.

The chat then moved onto Arsene and how his philosophy is plain to see for years now at Arsenal.
Then Fergie and his amazing successful philosophy that brought so much success.
Then how Jose has imposed his philosophy now at many clubs in recent years.
Then Ancelotti, Rodgers, and the likes of Allardyce who mighten play fanciful football but still has, and imposes a certain philosophy on a club wherever he is.

We really struggled when we came to Moyes, and I was even surprised myself.
Yes we could talk about a certain style he likes to play and setup, but the bigger picture of what philosophy he brings to a club had me stumped.

What does he bring to a club that will/would stand up in his absence?

What was Ancelotti's philosophy?

aperture_nuig

FutureGuy wrote: »

Sometimes, I just dont't know what to say.

I think the term you're looking for is "LOL".

Hococop

No

According to marca, Valencia wants to leave united for Madrid..................... Ha

tallaghtmick

No

Hococop wrote: »

According to marca, Valencia wants to leave united for Madrid..................... Ha

Madrid's C team?

Peter Flynt

bangkok wrote: »

What philosophy does Joes bring to any clubs?? Spends millions, doesn't bring in any youth team players, falls out with the media and then usually falls out with the board, opposition fans despise him for some of his comments and he is classless. would never want him to manage Utd

Mourinho is a great manager whose preparations and attention to detail are second to none. He won the treble [League/CL/Cup] for Inter in 2010 and all they've managed to win in the 4 years since he left is the Italian Cup.

Look at his track record:

Porto (2002–2004)
Primeira Liga (2): 2002–03, 2003–04
Taça de Portugal (1): 2002–03
Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira (1): 2003
UEFA Champions League (1): 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2002–03

Chelsea (2004–2007)
Premier League (2): 2004–05, 2005–06
FA Cup (1): 2006–07
Football League Cup (2): 2004–05, 2006–07
FA Community Shield (1): 2005

Internazionale (2008–2010)
Serie A (2): 2008–09, 2009–10
Coppa Italia (1): 2009–10
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2008
UEFA Champions League (1): 2009–10

Real Madrid (2010–2013)
La Liga (1): 2011–12
Copa del Rey (1): 2010–11
Supercopa de España (1): 2012

The_Kew_Tour

No

Hococop wrote: »

According to marca, Valencia wants to leave united for Madrid..................... Ha

1 way ticket!

Hococop

No

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

1 way ticket!

Infact if we all chip in we can afford the bench he will be sitting on for the whole season

bangkok

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Mourinho is a great manager whose preparations and attention to detail are second to none. He won the treble [League/CL/Cup] for Inter in 2010 and all they've managed to win in the 4 years since he left is the Italian Cup.

Look at his track record:

Porto (2002–2004)
Primeira Liga (2): 2002–03, 2003–04
Taça de Portugal (1): 2002–03
Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira (1): 2003
UEFA Champions League (1): 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2002–03

Chelsea (2004–2007)
Premier League (2): 2004–05, 2005–06
FA Cup (1): 2006–07
Football League Cup (2): 2004–05, 2006–07
FA Community Shield (1): 2005

Internazionale (2008–2010)
Serie A (2): 2008–09, 2009–10
Coppa Italia (1): 2009–10
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2008
UEFA Champions League (1): 2009–10

Real Madrid (2010–2013)
La Liga (1): 2011–12
Copa del Rey (1): 2010–11
Supercopa de España (1): 2012

you were talking about football philosophy not what he had won.....

bullvine

No

So sick of hearing this nonsense about Mourinho spending loads of dosh. Of course he has but please also see his success at Porto and Inter.

Julez

No

Hococop wrote: »

According to marca, Valencia wants to leave united for Madrid..................... Ha

Straight swap for Ronnie!

Blatter

No

bangkok wrote: »

What philosophy does Joes bring to any clubs?? Spends millions, doesn't bring in any youth team players, falls out with the media and then usually falls out with the board, opposition fans despise him for some of his comments and he is classless. would never want him to manage Utd

What philosophy does he bring to the table?

- He has a great ability to judge how good a player is, he knows their strengths and weaknesses inside out.

- He has an extraordinary tactical knowledge of the game, he knows how to adopt the best system to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal and can adopt different tactics to give him the best possible chance against different opponents. He is flexible.

-When he buys a player, he know exactly why he wants him and how he's going to use him.

- He creates a brilliant team ethic at a club, he quite clearly has exceptional motivational techniques.

- Players can clearly see how talented he is and they trust him. They believe in him and he makes them believe in themselves.



That's the philosophy he brings to the table.

IamtheWalrus

Julez wrote: »

Straight swap for Ronnie!

Incredibly, that's exactly what Fergie did.

Macca07

So Louis van Gaal wants a job in England after the WC.

Fergie, Fergie sign him up!

bullvine

No

Macca07 wrote: »

So Louis van Gaal wants a job in England after the WC.

Fergie, Fergie sign him up!

I was reading one of the german journos, he was saying a lot of the Bayern groundwork was laid by him. Fingers crossed!

Liam O

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Incredibly, that's exactly what Fergie did.

Think there's an extra 60m odd pounds and another team in that one but go on.

Macca07

bullvine wrote: »

I was reading one of the german journos, he was saying a lot of the Bayern groundwork was laid by him. Fingers crossed!

He's exactly the type of manager that should of replaced SAF. Him or Hiddink. Get a bit of stability, bring in someone as assistant that would eventually become manager.

Blatter

No

Hococop wrote: »

According to marca, Valencia wants to leave united for Madrid..................... Ha

He might get on well at Getafe in fairness!

bantee

No

bangkok wrote: »

What philosophy does Joes bring to any clubs?? Spends millions, doesn't bring in any youth team players, falls out with the media and then usually falls out with the board, opposition fans despise him for some of his comments and he is classless. would never want him to manage Utd

Of all the mad stuff you've come out with over the past week or so, this trumps them all. Philosophy? He's an unbelievable tactician in terms of preparing for each game and team set up.
Look up a few youtube clips on the subject before casting mad dispersions :rolleyes:

bangkok

as a matter of interest would people here like jose as united manager?

tallaghtmick

No

bangkok wrote: »

as a matter of interest would people here like jose as united manager?

Yes any day over Moyes, he would be here now except for United wanting to keep to now outdated management philosophies.

bangkok

any manager that pokes another manager in the eye shows what kind of character they really are. no thanks

RGDATA!

bangkok wrote: »

any manager that pokes another manager in the eye shows what kind of character they really are. no thanks

The poke in the eye thing was unsavoury no doubt, but Fergie had his character flaws too wouldn't you agree?

bren2001

bangkok wrote: »

any manager that pokes another manager in the eye shows what kind of character they really are. no thanks

So your vision for United would be to turn away Mourinho, one of the best managers in the world (if not the best) AND buy Reus but not play him in his best position. Instead, shoehorn him into CM.

OK.......where is the ignore button on this?

bangkok

RGDATA! wrote: »

The poke in the eye thing was unsavoury no doubt, but Fergie had his character flaws too wouldn't you agree?

yes he did but fergie was also one of the most likeable and approachable managers around, got on well with most people......apart from rafa........ could you say the same about mourinho?? no. even when city played barca tue night he couldn't wait to get a dig at both city and barca!! the things he said about wenger last week was disgusting, had a go at Liverpool somewhere in between as well.....

Will I Amnt

No

Blatter wrote: »

What philosophy does he bring to the table?

- He has a great ability to judge how good a player is, he knows their strengths and weaknesses inside out.

- He has an extraordinary tactical knowledge of the game, he knows how to adopt the best system to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal and can adopt different tactics to give him the best possible chance against different opponents. He is flexible.

-When he buys a player, he know exactly why he wants him and how he's going to use him.

- He creates a brilliant team ethic at a club, he quite clearly has exceptional motivational techniques.

- Players can clearly see how talented he is and they trust him. They believe in him and he makes them believe in themselves.



That's the philosophy he brings to the table.

I wouldn't class all of that under footballing philosophy tbh.
Philosophy to me would be a characteristic of how you set up your teams to play, a brand or identity of football, be it counter attacking, tiki-taka, defensively sound, wing play or whatever else there is.

TheMilkyPirate

Blatter wrote: »

What philosophy does he bring to the table?

- He has a great ability to judge how good a player is, he knows their strengths and weaknesses inside out.

- He has an extraordinary tactical knowledge of the game, he knows how to adopt the best system to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal and can adopt different tactics to give him the best possible chance against different opponents. He is flexible.

-When he buys a player, he know exactly why he wants him and how he's going to use him.

- He creates a brilliant team ethic at a club, he quite clearly has exceptional motivational techniques.

- Players can clearly see how talented he is and they trust him. They believe in him and he makes them believe in themselves.



That's the philosophy he brings to the table.

That's not really a philosophy though is it.

intellectual dosser

Jesus the more I see of Rio Ferdinand on Twitter the more I think he's absolutely septic to the cause.

RGDATA!

bangkok wrote: »

yes he did but fergie was also one of the most likeable and approachable managers around, got on well with most people......apart from rafa........ could you say the same about mourinho?? no.

ok, i get it, you're trolling.

bangkok

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

That's not really a philosophy though is it.

no it is not....thanks for pointing that out if I said anything I would have been shot down!!

bangkok

moyes will be united manager no matter what happens this season, he will be given money to spend in the summer, should he fail after that I would love to see carlo anchelotti next united manager if he was no longer with Madrid..

tallaghtmick

No

bangkok wrote: »

no it is not....thanks for pointing that out if I said anything I would have been shot down!!

Well stop posting crap!

buyer95

Just backed us at 20/1 to win the Champions League. Madness you say, I agree wholeheartedly. Chelsea winning in 2011 and Liverpool in 06 was too. Mata, RVP, Rooney. That trio on-song could yet do something special. I still feel we will have a late push towards the end of the season, and who knows, I might strike the jackpot.

Blatter

No

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I wouldn't class all of that under footballing philosophy tbh.
Philosophy to me would be a characteristic of how you set up your teams to play, a brand or identity of football, be it counter attacking, tiki-taka, defensively sound, wing play or whatever else there is.

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

That's not really a philosophy though is it.

Of course it is. It's his entire management philosophy. All of those characteristics are interlinked and contribute to him being a phenomenal football manager.

Why limit the discussion to 'footballing' philosophy or style of play when discussing a manager? His overall management philosophy is the key that enables him to implement a specific style of play.

Lord TSC

No

RGDATA! wrote: »

ok, i get it, you're trolling.

And yet people keep quoting, arguing....here's a tip. If someone says something you feel is obviously trying to wind people up, ignore him

Vic Vinegar

buyer95 wrote: »

Just backed us at 20/1 to win the Champions League. Madness you say, I agree wholeheartedly. Chelsea winning in 2011 and Liverpool in 06 was too. Mata, RVP, Rooney. That trio on-song could yet do something special. I still feel we will have a late push towards the end of the season, and who knows, I might strike the jackpot.

Mata is ineligible.

Macca07

buyer95 wrote: »

Just backed us at 20/1 to win the Champions League. Madness you say, I agree wholeheartedly. Chelsea winning in 2011 and Liverpool in 06 was too. Mata, RVP, Rooney. That trio on-song could yet do something special. I still feel we will have a late push towards the end of the season, and who knows, I might strike the jackpot.

Mata is cup tied.

Mitch Connor

No

buyer95 wrote: »

Just backed us at 20/1 to win the Champions League. Madness you say, I agree wholeheartedly. Chelsea winning in 2011 and Liverpool in 06 was too. Mata, RVP, Rooney. That trio on-song could yet do something special. I still feel we will have a late push towards the end of the season, and who knows, I might strike the jackpot.

Mata is cup tied.

bangkok

mata cant play champions league..

TheDoc

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Philosophy

Bigger con then KaiserSoze this philosophy lark. It seriously wrecks my head.

This coach has a philosophy, that club has a philosophy. Sick of hearing this twisted phrase the British Press and certain management elect choose to keep saying.

It's called a tactic, or a style, it's not a philosophy.

I heard it first coming from Brendan Rodgers and people banging on about it. He hasn't had an original thought since this year. He inherited a massively successful system at Swansea that Martinez implemented from experiences in Spain and attending visiting sessions provided by La Massa to European coaches.

Obviously Rodgers has himself some exposure to continental coaching, but he kept the ting mainly the same and carried on.
Had a decent season with Swansea and rightly so got the plaudits.
Laudrup comes in maintains the same system, adds a bitching striker and trophy emerges.

Rodgers has completely changed the way Liverpool play this season. His "philosophy"( which is bollox ) wasn't working. He made changes this season and bang they are flying. And playing amazingly breathtaking direct football.

Is that a change in philosophy? No, it's a change in tactics, its a change in system.

Philosophy is something Wenger had at Arsenal. Buy in raw talent, coach them, integrate into first team. And even then it's a stretch calling that a philosophy.

It's such a bollox word that has no business being in football, but the UK media and press band it around to make their game sound more intelligent and advanced, to counter act the argument that the Enlgish game is not as technical as Italy, Spain or Germany.

It's such a fallacy that I wish people would see through and call it up for the bull**** that it is.

UnitedIrishman

No

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

That's not really a philosophy though is it.

His tactical philosophy is fairly simple. Be extremely hard to break down and get our creative players on the ball as much as possible. Its always been a 4-2-3-1 as such with almost all of the creativity coming from the 3 behind the striker providing the creativity.

The wingers job is to stay wide as possible until in possession of the ball. This seems to have varied slightly with Hazard. Lampard was previously the one in behind the striker and that player has to be able to play beyond the striker at times. Oscar has filled that role for much of this year.

The striker tends to be a player who can hold up the ball or work hard across the opposition backline. Derlei, Drogba, Etoo. I've a feeling Mou will want to bring in his own guys this summer to fit his scheme this year.

Defence need to be strong in air and physical. Not necessarily fast because they play so deep on the pitch. Full backs tend not to bomb forward in support until the teams shape is up the field attacking. Holding midfielder is almost always deployed in some form whether its Makelele, Cambiasso, Luiz, Costinha etc.

Posting from a phone so apologies if this is vague.

Also as TheDoc says football philosophy is hard to pin or hold manager to because they can change with each club they go to. Moyes had to bring through players at Everton because he hadn't the budget. There's no guarantee he will do the same at Utd or that the youngsters coming through will be good enough to do so.

Unearthly

No

Is Mata eligible for cl?

IamtheWalrus

Unearthly wrote: »

Is Mata eligible for cl?

Cup-tied via Chelski.

Will I Amnt

No

Blatter wrote: »

Of course it is. It's his entire management philosophy. All of those characteristics are interlinked and contribute to him being a phenomenal football manager.

Why limit the discussion to 'footballing' philosophy or style of play when discussing a manager? His overall management philosophy is the key that enables him to implement a specific style of play.

Meh, don't see how you can use his ability to spot a player and know how to use him as part of his philosophy.

Thecon21

No

buyer95 wrote: »

Just backed us at 20/1 to win the Champions League. Madness you say, I agree wholeheartedly. Chelsea winning in 2011 and Liverpool in 06 was too. Mata, RVP, Rooney. That trio on-song could yet do something special. I still feel we will have a late push towards the end of the season, and who knows, I might strike the jackpot.

I hope for your sake that you didn't bet much on that.. United will not win the champions league.

We would be mauled by Barca or Bayern. There's no point in having that attacking trio on song with nothing to back them up.

Unearthly

No

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Cup-tied via Chelski.

Cheers, I was just looking for confirmation for the 5th time

Julez

No

Anyone know if Mata is eligible to play in the champions league?
*troll face*

bangkok

oh roll on Saturday, get down to London for the game on Saturday..

IamtheWalrus

Unearthly wrote: »

Cheers, I was just looking for confirmation for the 5th time

Ah, you fooled me and now you're rofling.

jaykay74

No

Julez wrote: »

Anyone know if Mata is eligible to play in the champions league?
*troll face*

Pretty sure I read he is eligible a few posts back.

J. Marston

No

League form is only going to get worse, in my opinion.

1. No motivation. Champions League places are gone so nothing to play for.

2. Champions League. That will/should be the players main focus. Basically throwing our last few cent on the roulette wheel.

3. World Cup. Players aren't going to strain themselves too much in pointless games when there's nothing to play for and there's a World Cup around 4 months away.