Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod Warning: Post #7871

bangkok

J. Marston wrote: »

League form is only going to get worse, in my opinion.

1. No motivation. Champions League places are gone so nothing to play for.

2. Champions League. That will/should be the players main focus. Basically throwing our last few cent on the roulette wheel.

3. World Cup. Players aren't going to strain themselves too much in pointless games when there's nothing to play for and there's a World Cup around 4 months away.

nothing to play for???!!! its man utd they are playing for...there is always something to play for. Do you think the fans or manager would accept players not trying?!!! any player not putting 100% effort into the shirt can go in the summer as far as I am concerned

Essien

If United win the CL do they take a spot off the fourth placed team?

Mars Bar

If you think a poster is trolling, please report them. Don't call them out in the thread coz that's breach of charter.

Likewise for stating or implying that you or someone else should put another poster on ignore.

Professional Griefer

No

Essien wrote: »

If United win the CL do they take a spot off the fourth placed team?

Yes, same as Liverpool in 06 I think.

bangkok

Essien wrote: »

If United win the CL do they take a spot off the fourth placed team?

yes, like when Liverpool won everton were 4th or when Chelsea won it spurs were 4th

tallaghtmick

No

Mars Bar wrote: »

If you think a poster is trolling, please report them. Don't call them out in the thread coz that's breach of charter.

Likewise for stating or implying that you or someone else should put another poster on ignore.

No text talk ......oh god I'm getting banned lol

Essien

Cheers, I couldn't remember what happened on previous occasions. I'm just imagining the meltdown here if Liverpool get 4th and you lot took their CL spot by going and winning the fecking thing!

Will I Amnt

No

Essien wrote: »

Cheers, I couldn't remember what happened on previous occasions. I'm just imagining the meltdown here if Liverpool get 4th and you lot took their CL spot by going and winning the fecking thing!

I dream about it every night.

Vic Vinegar

Louis van Gaal will be looking for a job in England after the world cup apparently (according to Sky Sports!)

Good coach.

tallaghtmick

No

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Louis van Gaal will be looking for a job in England after the world cup apparently (according to Sky Sports!)

Good coach.

Does he like crossing a lot and blaming luck?

xabi

bangkok wrote: »

yes, like when Liverpool won everton were 4th or when Chelsea won it spurs were 4th

But Liverpool didn't take the place from everton that year. There where 5 English clubs in the CL in 05/06. Changed since though.

Essien

xabi wrote: »

But Liverpool didn't take the place from everton that year. There where 5 English clubs in the CL in 05/06. Changed since though.

That's the thing that threw me. I knew there was a rule change at some stage but wasn't sure what it was changed to.

goodolegill

No

TBH i think beggars cant be choosers when it comes to the Europa League. If we do have to suffer another 6 months like we have, then at least we will have two routes into the Champions league with the league position or potential Europa league champions

RikkFlair

Wasn't Louis Van Gaal interested in the job when Fergie was first stepping down around 2002?

v3ttel

Essien wrote: »

Cheers, I couldn't remember what happened on previous occasions. I'm just imagining the meltdown here if Liverpool get 4th and you lot took their CL spot by going and winning the fecking thing!

Gary Neville retweeted someone saying that if United won the Champions League, and finished outside the top 4, there would be five English teams in the Champions League next season. He also said that he didn't realise that himself.

I'm not sure whether that is correct or not. I'm assuming it is.

v3ttel

Sum up your season in one gif thread on reddit. Good for a laugh.

Julez

No

Essien wrote: »

If United win the CL do they take a spot off the fourth placed team?

Interestingly enough from next season onwards I think 5 teams can qualify because UEFA plan to have the winners of the Champions league and Europa league get an automatic place in the Champions league.

So Europa league could be more important next year.

Although, I can't see any definite confimation on it.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11945/8730422/uefa-open-to-champions-league-including-five-english-teams

Winston Payne

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Louis van Gaal will be looking for a job in England after the world cup apparently (according to Sky Sports!)

Good coach.

Old and inflexible. Nudging inexorably to 3-4-3 all the time and to hell with changing from that. It had gone to pot properly when he left Bayern. We'd play alright for a while...within eighteen months he'd have fallen out with everyone, and results would have turned. Probably amongst the top of the list of coaches I don't want to see here ever.

bren2001

Julez wrote: »

Interestingly enough from next season onwards I think 5 teams can qualify because UEFA plan to have the winners of the Champions league and Europa league get an automatic place in the Champions league.

So Europa league could be more important next year.

Although, I can't see any definite confimation on it.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11945/8730422/uefa-open-to-champions-league-including-five-english-teams

If you look at the Regulations for the Champions League Article 2.02 states:

2.02 Associations are represented on the following basis:
a) One representative: winner of the top domestic league championship.
b) Two representatives: winner and runner-up of the top domestic league
championship.
c) Three representatives: winner, runner-up and third-placed club in the top
domestic league championship.
d) Four representatives: winner, runner-up, third- and fourth-placed clubs in
the top domestic league championship.

From that, the maximum number of teams from one association is 4. Presumably, the winners of the Europa League/Champions League take the 4th place. In the unlikely event an English team wins both the 3rd and 4th place would go to the Champions League winner and the Europa league winner respectively.

Peter Flynt

Professional Griefer wrote: »

Yes, same as Liverpool in 06 I think.

Liverpool did not take a CL spot from anyone in 2005.

There was no rule that allowed the holders of the CL into the following seasons CL. . . So Everton, who finished fourth, were allowed into the CL.

The rules were then changed whereby the holder automatically qualifies . . . But Liverpool had to go through the qualification stages (from the first round).

In 2012 Chelsea (who finished 6th) denied Spurs (who finished 4th) a place in the CL after they sadly won it.

IamtheWalrus

Seven months in seven seconds, the many faces of David Moyes, via Paddy Power

Your Airbag

RVP and Maradona juggling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMjc0P8b3iI

RVP is doing it so well it looks like some spaceship is trying to beam him up with that purple tractor beam so they can have him play for Intergalactic FC

Blatter

No

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Meh, don't see how you can use his ability to spot a player and know how to use him as part of his philosophy.

It's part of the philosophy he brings to the table at a club, which is what the initial question was.

If you look at the definition of philosophy, which is essentially what we're debating here, you should realise that his ability to spot a player and know how to use him, would definitely fall under the term.



Philosophy:

1. the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.

2. a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour.

Will I Amnt

No

Blatter wrote: »

It's part of the philosophy he brings to the table at a club, which is what the initial question was.

If you look at the definition of philosophy, which is essentially what we're debating here, you should realise that his ability to spot a player and know how to use him, would definitely fall under the term.



Philosophy:

1. the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.

2. a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour.

Pretty sure it's football philosophy we're discussing here.

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

ridiculous statement, of course moyes knows what its about. didn't he manage a good everton team for 10 years in the prem league and highlighted straight away a need for a world class midfielder in the summer when he joined

It was tongue in cheek. The entire footballing world recognised the need for a midfielder.

sReq | uTeK

RikkFlair wrote: »

Wasn't Louis Van Gaal interested in the job when Fergie was first stepping down around 2002?

Yup he said it was a done deal and approved by United board.

Blatter

No

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Pretty sure it's football philosophy we're discussing here.

As I said before, it's all interlinked.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Seven months in seven seconds, the many faces of David Moyes, via Paddy Power

Looks like an older version of Robb Stark in a few of those...

Will I Amnt

No

Blatter wrote: »

As I said before, it's all interlinked.

Fair enough, I still think you're taking it far too literally.
I would go something along the lines of what Unitedirishman said if asked about Mourinho's philosophy

His tactical philosophy is fairly simple. Be extremely hard to break down and get our creative players on the ball as much as possible. Its always been a 4-2-3-1 as such with almost all of the creativity coming from the 3 behind the striker providing the creativity.

I'd also agree with TheDoc in saying that philosophy doesn't really belong in football but if it has to then that would be my interpretation.

Peter Flynt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Fair enough, I still think you're taking it far too literally.
I would go something along the lines of what Unitedirishman said if asked about Mourinho's philosophy



I'd also agree with TheDoc in saying that philosophy doesn't really belong in football but if it has to then that would be my interpretation.

There are many clubs/fans who wouldn't mind the "philosophy" of a manager who has won the league in three countries and the Champions League twice.

Do posters seriously think that United would be in the position they're in now if they'd appointed Mourinho instead of Moyes?

Will I Amnt

No

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There are many clubs/fans who wouldn't mind the "philosophy" of a manager who has won the league in three countries and the Champions League twice.

Do posters seriously think that United would be in the position they're in now if they'd appointed Mourinho instead of Moyes?

Well that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about, don't know why you're quoting me?

Blatter

No

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Fair enough, I still think you're taking it far too literally.
I would go something along the lines of what Unitedirishman said if asked about Mourinho's philosophy



I'd also agree with TheDoc in saying that philosophy doesn't really belong in football but if it has to then that would be my interpretation.

I don't think I'm taking it too literally tbh. His ability to see a good player and knowledge of knowing how to use them is key to him being able to implement his styles of play to such a great effect.

Managers often buy players that don't really fit into the styles they want to impose and it has an negative effect on the team's chances. Mourinho does this much less! It's all part of what he brings to the table and what makes him so great.

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree.

mewe

No

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Yup he said it was a done deal and approved by United board.

Was that not Sven Goran Eriksson no?

lordgoat

No

mewe wrote: »

Was that not Sven Goran Eriksson no?

Sven had been lined up is what i had thought too

Peter Flynt

lordgoat wrote: »

Sven had been lined up is what i had thought too

i believe Eriksson even said it himself.

I don't recall Van Gaal being mentioned at the time.

It would surprise me if he was in the reckoning. . . .As Van Gaal had stepped down as Holland manager after failure to qualify for the 2002 WC [after defeat to Ireland ]

Deiseboy01

TheDoc wrote: »

Bigger con then KaiserSoze this philosophy lark. It seriously wrecks my head.

This coach has a philosophy, that club has a philosophy. Sick of hearing this twisted phrase the British Press and certain management elect choose to keep saying.

It's called a tactic, or a style, it's not a philosophy.

I heard it first coming from Brendan Rodgers and people banging on about it. He hasn't had an original thought since this year. He inherited a massively successful system at Swansea that Martinez implemented from experiences in Spain and attending visiting sessions provided by La Massa to European coaches.

Obviously Rodgers has himself some exposure to continental coaching, but he kept the ting mainly the same and carried on.
Had a decent season with Swansea and rightly so got the plaudits.
Laudrup comes in maintains the same system, adds a bitching striker and trophy emerges.

Rodgers has completely changed the way Liverpool play this season. His "philosophy"( which is bollox ) wasn't working. He made changes this season and bang they are flying. And playing amazingly breathtaking direct football.

Is that a change in philosophy? No, it's a change in tactics, its a change in system.

Philosophy is something Wenger had at Arsenal. Buy in raw talent, coach them, integrate into first team. And even then it's a stretch calling that a philosophy.

It's such a bollox word that has no business being in football, but the UK media and press band it around to make their game sound more intelligent and advanced, to counter act the argument that the Enlgish game is not as technical as Italy, Spain or Germany.

It's such a fallacy that I wish people would see through and call it up for the bull**** that it is.

Totally agree. It's up there with 'moment' as in we are in a wonderful moment right now. Initially spouted by moronic sounding Italian managers that couldn't speak English very well but now clowns like Rodgers have been using it. Wreaks my head. Up there with early doors. Seriously can we stop now?

Robson99

Dont buy much into this philosophy BS. Each manager has a style of play and sets up teams accordingly. However he should always be able to adjust the systems, formations and tactics to suit a particular opponent

Looking at Bayern last night they have at least 6 or 7 players who can play in at least 2 different positions comfortably. Some posters on here thought we didnt need Mata and that Kagawa is wasted on the wing. They have a point based on our style of play this season and generally the way we have played for years [442, wingers, 'philosophy' etc].

IMO we need to forget about 442 and continuously playing 2 wingers. 80 odd crosses in a game and still create f**k all decent chances sums it up. Kagawa, Mata, Januzai, RVP and Rooney are all good footballers who would fit into the systems being played by both Bayern and Barca. We need to be playing passing football through the middle and we have the players to do it.
Unfortunately I dont think we have the manager to play this style of football

lordgoat

No

Robson99 wrote: »

Dont buy much into this philosophy BS. Each manager has a style of play and sets up teams accordingly. However he should always be able to adjust the systems, formations and tactics to suit a particular opponent

Looking at Bayern last night they have at least 6 or 7 players who can play in at least 2 different positions comfortably. Some posters on here thought we didnt need Mata and that Kagawa is wasted on the wing. They have a point based on our style of play this season and generally the way we have played for years [442, wingers, 'philosophy' etc].

IMO we need to forget about 442 and continuously playing 2 wingers. 80 odd crosses in a game and still create f**k all decent chances sums it up. Kagawa, Mata, Januzai, RVP and Rooney are all good footballers who would fit into the systems being played by both Bayern and Barca. We need to be playing passing football through the middle and we have the players to do it.
Unfortunately I dont think we have the manager to play this style of football

i'd agree with this.

Q: How many current united players (outfield) could have played on the Bayern team last night without weakening it? (Without altering how the play)

For me:

Mata
Kagawa
RVP
Rooney
Janz

(Yet all 5 of these couldn't play at the same time.

At a push:
Rio
Evra

IamtheWalrus

lordgoat wrote: »

i'd agree with this.

Q: How many current united players (outfield) could have played on the Bayern team last night without weakening it? (Without altering how the play)

For me:

Mata
Kagawa

Deiseboy01

lordgoat wrote: »

i'd agree with this.

Q: How many current united players (outfield) could have played on the Bayern team last night without weakening it? (Without altering how the play)

For me:

Mata
Kagawa
RVP
Rooney
Janz

(Yet all 5 of these couldn't play at the same time.

At a push:
Rio
Evra

No way Rio or Evra could get into that side. Jan either. Been a ray of light for us during a **** season but no way near the finished article. Kag has been simply awful for us full stop, would get no way near that side.

Robson99

lordgoat wrote: »

i'd agree with this.

Q: How many current united players (outfield) could have played on the Bayern team last night without weakening it? (Without altering how the play)

For me:

Mata
Kagawa
RVP
Rooney
Janz

(Yet all 5 of these couldn't play at the same time.

At a push:
Rio
Evra

I agree all 5 couldnt play at the same time but any 4 of the 5 could.

I dont think Rio or Evra are anywhere near good enough anymore for that level. Vidic possible could fit in

Will I Amnt

No

lordgoat wrote: »

i'd agree with this.

Q: How many current united players (outfield) could have played on the Bayern team last night without weakening it? (Without altering how the play)

For me:

Mata
Kagawa
RVP
Rooney
Janz

(Yet all 5 of these couldn't play at the same time.

At a push:
Rio
Evra

Agree with Mata, Kagawa, Rooney and RvP, that's it though.
I'm sure a certain someone will be along to tell you none of them have a hope.

Robson99

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Kag has been simply awful for us full stop, would get no way near that side.

Put Kagawa in a team with any two from Kroos, Martinez, Thiago or Schweinstiger and I bet he would fit in

ShoulderChip

No

lordgoat wrote: »

i'd agree with this.

Q: How many current united players (outfield) could have played on the Bayern team last night without weakening it? (Without altering how the play)

For me:

Mata
Kagawa
RVP
Rooney
Janz

(Yet all 5 of these couldn't play at the same time.

At a push:
Rio
Evra

This is brilliant, let me share this on the Chelsea thread

Mars Bar

ShoulderChip wrote: »

This is brilliant, let me share this on the Chelsea thread

No, you won't.

IamtheWalrus

Mars Bar wrote: »

No, you won't.

Why shouldn't he?

Mars Bar

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Why shouldn't he?

Because it's not relevant to the Chelsea thread and will be off topic. He can by all means start a discussion in the Chelsea thread about which Chelsea players will get in to the Bayern Munich squad if he wishes.

keane2097

No

lordgoat wrote: »

i'd agree with this.

Q: How many current united players (outfield) could have played on the Bayern team last night without weakening it? (Without altering how the play)

For me:

Mata
Kagawa
RVP
Rooney
Janz

(Yet all 5 of these couldn't play at the same time.

At a push:
Rio
Evra

Christ almighty you're absolutely crazy if you would rate Januzaj as able to get anywhere near the Bayern team.

The Januzaj thing has to stop.

SherlockWatson

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

No way Rio or Evra could get into that side. Jan either. Been a ray of light for us during a **** season but no way near the finished article. Kag has been simply awful for us full stop, would get no way near that side.

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Kagawa would fit into the Bayern team easily, no question.

Deiseboy01

Robson99 wrote: »

Put Kagawa in a team with any two from Kroos, Martinez, Thiago or Schweinstiger and I bet he would fit in

He might fit in but the question was would he weaken the side and based on any reasonable assessment of his form over the last two years then yes he would weaken Bayern.